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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/17/2008 8:47:51 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3182
Joined: 7/10/2006
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We ALL sin continiously. No, we do not! You may, I don't (by the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit).
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We don't however let sin control us. Nonsense theology, SonInMe1! If you are sinning continuously, then sin is controlling you! You cannot have it both ways.
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When we are saved we no longer "are" sinners, we no longer are under the YOKE of sin, we are free from the POWER of sin Then, by definition, we are no longer sinning continuously. Don't you see how inconsistent your position is, SonInMe1?
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BUT there is no doubt that salvation does not bring perfection. Correct, it is entire sanctification that "brings perfection". Salvation is the initial step toward Christian perfection.
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Its no wonder someone who does not believe in OSAS denies the FACT they still sin. It's no wonder that everyone who believes in OSAS denies the fact that Christian cans and must stop continuously sinning! It feels so good to think you can go to heaven without true repentance and Christ-like obedience.
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They have to be PERFECT or they lose their salvation, always looking around the corner worrying if their sin will finally be exposed or that their sin will lose their salvation. No, God makes us perfect and eliminates the worry of legalism by His grace and power.
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What a terrible guilt. A terrible burden. These people are not freed from the yoke of sin because they deny they do sin....or redefine sin so their sins do not apply anymore. No holiness doctrine has "redefined" sin, SonInMe! It is the antinomian who redefines sin by claiming that Christ died to change the nature of sin so that God no longer sees our sins since we're merely clothed in Christ's righteousness. The Bible teaches that Christ died to change the nature of sinful man so that we do not keep on sinning since we have the righteousness of Christ imparted into our hearts. The difference between clothed and imparted is exactly what separates our understanding of sin.
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Repentence...you know the deal...how can perfect christians repent? I don't think they can. I'm sorry you do not understand the definition of Christian perfection. That is no reason, however, to deny its potential in the life of millions of Believers!
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Unfortunatley we are in this flesh and our perspective is clouded by it. Again, you are confusing our carnal sinful natures with our fallen physical bodies. I am NOT living in my carnal nature since God has cleansed it during my experience of entire sanctification. I will always live in my "earthen vessel" until the day He takes me home with Him. I am capable of not sinning in this world - I will be incapable of sinning in heaven.
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If we can become sinless here, there would be NO need for a glorified body. One last time - sinless perfection in this world does NOT eliminate the ability to sin. Perfect sinlessness is achieved upon glorification when we will be no longer able to sin in heaven. Why can't you understand this distinction, SonInMe1?
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By the way I was in a holiness church once...preaching the sinless chriostian life. Always denying our natures and pretending. Sorry, you were not in a "holiness church" if the preaching "denied our nature". The very basis of holiness doctrine is that God can and will cleanse us from our sinful nature by grace through faith when we consecrate our entire being to Him. How can God possibly do this for us if we deny the very nature he wants to purify?!
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Funny thing though...that pastor fell hard took a buncha people with him. Law suits and adultries and thievery. There's nothing funny about self-centered carnality destroying the body of Christ. There's something exhilarating about knowing that this pastor did not have to disobey God. Tragically, he chose wrongly.
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Yeah, sounds like "perfect" christians to me. So you would rather deny the Message of Holiness because one messenger disobeyed? Is that what God wants for your life, SonInMe1, or does He really want the Son in you to rule supremely?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/17/2008 8:54:39 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 585
Joined: 3/22/2008
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ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
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how a Christian CAN live and is NOT supported by scripture.
Sin is not condined scripturally and neither do I condone it.
I also live in the real world.
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Though Jesus Christ gave His life for you and I, taught us, showed us how to live, and then was crucified on the cross for our sins, we all sin continuously but we wait... there's more... we don't let sin control us"
This would be an issue discussed between more mature christians I think than to a new or seeking person.
We also differ in the definition of what constitutes continuous sins. There is a difference, I think, between continious sin and those who sin continiously, or maybe a better defintion would be, those who are imperfect.
If I wallow in sin, and don't care if its wrong or even a sin, then I think there is a problem.
If I have certain sins, or an attitude, like a poor fruit of the spirit, that just gets me all the time, then that is different. Take..self control.
This is one fruit of the spirit I continiously struggle with. Its not always manifested in the same way, but a lot of my sin comes from a lack of self control. It could be temper one time, or lust, or gluttony. I might have a problem for an hour, or a second or for a week or for months.
Think about it...you had 300 sexual partners before you met Jesus. Think that just goes away? How about...smoking? Drinking? How about...them all? Throw in some drugs too.
These things don't disappear. Sometimes, yes God just wipes the slate clean and people never go back to those things. It does happen, but it does not happen all the time.
Its not about will power either. Will power denies God and involves pride. Is there commitment? Certainly. Even sacrifice and struggle and the old nose to the grindstone...I understand all of that well. I doubt you will ever meet someone with a more accomplishment orientated personality than mine.....
but there are things I CANNOT do.
I have prayed and prayed. I know the bible. I have repented and forgiven and asked for forgiveness.
Some....things....God....has...to....do.
Maybe you are blessed. Maybe God allows you to be next to sinless....
maybe God allows me to be sinful in order that His Grace might be manifest.
I often wonder if my witness is the Bizzaro Witness. The opposite witness. The, " if God let that guy be saved then anyone can be saved " witness.
Again I don't condone any sin ever, but I also don't have the mind of God. I don't know why it seems others do not struggle with sin and I do.
I love Jesus. I'd be dead without Him. I would be sick. I would have no future at all without Jesus but ya know something else?
I ain't dead yet. I cannot give up. ( Counter to some here who believe you can walk away from God to me, that is an impossibility. ) The race is not done and I will win that race not because I can do it. If anything my life is a witness to His power and not mine....
and as bad as I am, I am a whole lot better than I was. There is no doubt there has been change in me...the saving kind. So much so that my dad, who saw the change in me, stated it was a big reason why he came to the Lord at 67.
I just cannot proclaim perfection or a next to sinless state because...that would be a sin and not just because it is a lie.
My brother, you are fully conscious. You acknowledge your struggles, allowing God to teach you through them, where others will merely pretend they do not exist at all. It is God that works in you, and He is using your struggles to mold you into His image.
If we would all be like you...honest, aware...conscious, then Christianity would truly be the gift to humanity that it was designed to be.
Do you professing Christians, you who claim to be so righteous, do you not know the world can see right through you? Do you think that the world does not see your sin, even though you do not see it yourself? Your righteousness is filthy rags to God.
Thank you SonInMe for sharing this.
In the following passage the Apostle Paul describes the common experience of every Christian, everywhere, and from all times. It is the shared experience of all who are conscious in the Lord.
"I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!" Romans 7:15-25
< Message edited by URForgiven -- 4/17/2008 9:09:09 AM >
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/17/2008 9:06:11 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3182
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: online
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Sorry, URF, but to lift Romans chapter 7 completely out of context without quoting Romans chapter 8 is poor exegesis and even poorer theology. Paul was not describing his sanctified life in Romans 7! If you care to go to entire sanctification, then let's read Romans 8:5-11 -
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/17/2008 9:21:06 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 585
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Sorry, URF, but to lift Romans chapter 7 completely out of context without quoting Romans chapter 8 is poor exegesis and even poorer theology. Paul was not describing his sanctified life in Romans 7! If you care to go to entire sanctification, then let's read Romans 8:5-11 -
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you
As I said, it describes the experience of all conscious Christians.
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/17/2008 11:18:15 AM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 10972
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
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Since I have repeatedly posted nudges to keep this on the subject of continual, willful, unrepentant sin instead of on the topic of whether or not Christians can be sinless, and since the thread keeps veering to the sinless topic, I'm concluding that the original topic has been discussed to everyone's satisfaction. Therefore, I'm closing the thread.
Please continue discussion on whether Christians can be sinless in the theology folders. I know there are threads running on the topic in there.
Thanks!
Tricia
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