Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (Full Version)

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Rufas2000 -> Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/3/2008 12:05:50 PM)

Hi, hopefully some of you gals can help me out.

Here is the situation:

I met a lady in a small group at church I was attending over the summer. We are both teachers but there is a 13 age year difference (I'm soon to be 38, she just turned 25). Later that night we happened to see each other at Walmart and waved. Then I found her My Space (via my church's My Space) and put in a friend request which she accepted.

We message each other on My Space fairly consistently. I think we're about even as far as who initiates contact first. She's very friendly and open on My Space but she'll barely talk to me at church. Its hard to get much of a response from her.

Recently we had a three hour chat on My Space IM (which she initiated) which appeared to go very well. We were goofy and serious and covered alot of ground. I haven't heard much since then (she commented on my page and two of my blogs in the same day but that was it over the last two weeks). Her brother was down for a week, that might have something to do with the lack of contact. She has posted regular "status updates" however. I left the last message last Friday and a picture comment a few days ago.

I (being impatient) would like to see if this could go somewhere but I don't want to put her in an uncomfortable position. I'm wondering if I should press a little or just hold back. I'm also concerned that she may not be cool with the age difference.

I know this may not be enough to go on so feel free to ask any questions. I don't want to see an opportunity pass by but I also don't want to do something that'll break up a friendship (albeit mostly a My Space friendship).



Osano -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/3/2008 1:39:36 PM)

What have you got to loose. I know it is a risk. Regardless of her response there is one thing you will know for sure if you do take that risk. You will find out if she is interested in pursuing this friendship into something more.

Women are attracted to men that will take the risk to get to know them! You will not loose either way.

Ask her a question and see what she says:)



miasma -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/3/2008 1:45:34 PM)

One thing in the age difference is IMing like that doesn't necessarily mean much, if anything, to the kids who grew up with it. While you're thinking, "Wow, we talked for three hours!" she's checking her myspace, chatting with 10 other people at the same time and thinks nothing of it.

Nothing you've posted sounds to me, at all, like any interest on her part. So hold back, there's a great potential for embarrassment, on your part, here by taking myspace (or other casual social internet) interaction too seriously.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/3/2008 2:05:49 PM)

Thanks to both of you and your wildly varying advice.

I will say she appeared to be totally engaged in the chat, I don't think she was chatting with anyone else, judging from the speed of the responses and the depth of the replies (and no mention of another chat). But I could be wrong.

As far as interest you may be right but I also didn't mention every little detail either. I do appreciate your perspective though. Sometimes an outside perspective is more accurate, not colored by our thoughts & hopes.

My goal is to find out without embarassment. Any help with that would be awesome (being that it may be a nigh impossible task) but all advice is appreciated.

Again thanks.



miasma -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/3/2008 2:49:39 PM)

quote:

I will say she appeared to be totally engaged in the chat, I don't think she was chatting with anyone else, judging from the speed of the responses and the depth of the replies (and no mention of another chat). But I could be wrong.


Yes, you could be wrong. I've sat around bored at night, talking to several people at once, replying instantly once the beep or flashing screen alerted me to a new message. It's not at all hard - and I don't tell everyone who else all I'm talking to, either. It's not really anybody else's business, for one thing.

Heck, at my old job, pretty much all I did all day long was IM people. People I've never met - and never would, or did meet. It was just something to do.


Really, you have two options: flat out ask her out on a date, or surreptitiously step up your church interaction to try and gauge more certainty.

It's hard to say without knowing her. I wouldn't be surprised if she thinks even less of it, given your age and that you're a "church friend" too.

quote:

Women are attracted to men that will take the risk to get to know them! You will not loose either way.


Unless you ask her out, and she's all, "Ew, creepy old guy..."

Now, mind you, at 25 I was dating men in their late 30s, I've spanned a greater age distance than 13 years. But when it comes to ages, usually perception matters more. And not knowing her perception (well, and her at all[8D])...I still say hold back. Just based solely on the info you've posted, I see no interest on her part.

Is there no way to nose around? Ask trusted mutual friends?



Rufas2000 -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/3/2008 3:09:41 PM)

quote:

It's not at all hard - and I don't tell everyone who else all I'm talking to, either. It's not really anybody else's business, for one thing.


Of course its nobody's business, certainly not mine, but she doesn't appear to be a big chatter. The only time I saw her "online" in IM is the night we were chatting. I just think she might have mentioned if she was chatting with someone else. Thats just me read of her, sometimes my reads are great other times they're way off. Also, it was continuous, very little lag time between responses if I recall correctly. And she was home and could have found better things to do (as opposed to being bored at work). She likes watching movies for instance, she doesn't appear to be an Internet gal.

I'm not trying to debate, you may very well be right. I just want to present a clear picture so that any feedback will be with as clear a picture as I can paint.

As far as mutual friends, yes they are there. I kinda casually mentioned to one mutual friend that we chatted for three hours and he said "shes the best" and we left it at that. Honestly, being in a new church and all, I'm trying to cultivate this friendship and I don't want to put him in the middle of this. So very good advice but I'm not wanting to go there yet.

I don't believe my EQ (emotional quotient) is great but it isn't bad. I've just read some signs that may lead me to believe there is a possibility of something there. They wouldn't sound like much to an outsider but when analyzing the whole situation they add up. Of course the fact she doesn't talk much at church is a bad sign. It could also be because she is nervous but thats an awfully positive spin to put on it.

Feedback appreciated. That's why I asked.



shemaromans -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/3/2008 11:02:32 PM)

quote:

My goal is to find out without embarassment. Any help with that would be awesome (being that it may be a nigh impossible task) but all advice is appreciated.

You always risk embarrassment with these situations. You can play it cool and possibly never know, or you can take a chance and find something out. Would you rather wonder or know for certain?



Rufas2000 -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/4/2008 5:21:17 AM)

quote:

Would you rather wonder or know for certain?


You make a very good point. I need to ponder that. I have made the last contact (last message in response to her and a picture comment) so I'll wait a bit longer and see if she responds. If not I'll go from there but I'm beginning to suspect that Miasma may be right, at least on the point that there may not be the level of interest that I had hoped.

Thanks.



miasma -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/4/2008 9:09:16 AM)

Most of my chatting was done while I was watching movies, or doing stuff around the house. Just had it on.

As far as that being the only time, she could hide her on-line status, or have other screen names she uses.

quote:

I just think she might have mentioned if she was chatting with someone else.


I wouldn't, inherently.

Now that you say you're in a new church, I'd definately wait a little longer. Some people might think it's creepy for someone almost 40 to ask someone out/have a romantic interest in their mid-20s out.

I don't, having spanned that age distance myself, but there was obvious, mutual interest - and no church busybodies around.

You've raised an interesting question, though, about the different perceptions different generations have, about internet usage. What's meaningful and significant to one person, isn't even a blip on the radar to someone else.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/4/2008 9:22:21 AM)

Again, just my read on things. I just don't see her as a big Internet gal. Maybe I'm wrong but either way its a minor point as I think I overestimated her interest.

I don't think the age difference would be a big deal in the church but point well taken. Best to be careful in new environments.

BTW: Miasma, going off topic in my own thread to a point of mutual interest, I picked up the Joy Division's "Substance". I picked that one cause it was cheaper and my collector's instinct said that it would go good with the New Order's "Substance" CD(s) I already had. Interesting stuff but I think I should have got one of their two studio albums instead. They are probably more cohesive also.

Anyway, appreciate it.



justjennhere -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/4/2008 10:25:46 AM)

Just ask her. Unless she's a very immature 25 year old, she won't make a big deal out of it and will, even if she's not interested, appreciate your honesty.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/4/2008 11:09:27 AM)

quote:

Just ask her. Unless she's a very immature 25 year old, she won't make a big deal out of it and will, even if she's not interested, appreciate your honesty.


Thanks, that makes sense too. I guess there is a middle ground between saying nothing and asking someone on a "date". Perhaps I'll work on it but I think laying low for a bit may be best. Don't want to appear too eager and her lack of contact for a bit concerns me. It's definitely not a sign of high interest but I realize it may be that she is busy ...

Anyway ... thanks again. The thoughts and advice have really helped me to process this.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/6/2008 11:26:42 AM)

Update: still no contact on her end.

It's interesting that both times I haven't heard from her for awhile it has been during and after she has seen her family. Now I have enough sense to know (barely LOL) why I'm not hearing from her while she is visiting with her family but I wonder about after. Maybe she realizes her parents or younger brothers won't be cool with it. Or maybe she's lonely and interacts with me because of that. Been there, done that, got the shirt.

It is a busy time for us Florida teachers so that could well be it. I'll just sit on it a little longer and see if anything happens then go from there.

The advice to just ask her is good but I'm hesitant because of the age difference (as previously mentioned) and that she is very reserved when I see her at church (as opposed to online). I don't want to freak her out or anything.

Not sure why she is so shy when around me in a public location, she doesn't appear to be extremely shy around others. The obvious answer is that she knows I like her and she doesn't want to have to say no. But then why initiate contact online? There are people I'm trying to avoid or are not comfortable around. I sure don't call them up or email them. Wouldn't make sense but that may just be me. Wishful thinking says that she does like me so she is nervous when she sees me without the Internet barrier. Possible but quite a stretch.

Anyway, there you go. FWIW.



azroadrunner -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/6/2008 8:24:47 PM)

I just think it's too hard to tell from her behavior whether she's interested or not. She may like you, but maybe she's just being friendly. Her shyness around you at church could be an attempt to avoid giving you the wrong impression, but it also could be a natural reaction to the feelings she has for you. I tend to act more reserved around a guy that I really like. Usually, though, it's the eye contact that really gives it away. Generally, if a woman wants to discourage a guy, she'll avoid giving him eye contact, but if she likes him, she'll give him lots of eye contact and smile at him. I would urge you to stick yourself out there, embarrassment or not, because if you don't, you'll drive yourself crazy wondering.

I've had a crush on a guy for a year now and he's given me many signals of interest, but it's never gone anywhere. Part of me thinks maybe he's wondering whether to stick himself out there, but part of me thinks maybe he's just not interested. I had learned at one point that he had a girlfriend (although I have a strong suspicion that they may have broken up), but I can't really initiate anything because it wouldn't be right based on the information I have. The point of me telling you this is that I've driven myself crazy over the last year trying to analyze every little interaction and it's taken a huge toll on my heart. I would have rather found out in the very beginning that he wasn't interested so I could have had an easier time moving on. Now, I'm so exasperated and discouraged from the interactions we've had over the past year that I'm not sure I'll ever have the enthusiasm necessary to start anything with him. Don't do that to yourself -- it's not worth it.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/7/2008 6:27:41 AM)

Lots of good stuff to think about, thanks for your insightful post. I'll watch for the eye contact.

I hope your relationship situation works itself out.



azroadrunner -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/7/2008 6:28:46 PM)

Thank you. I hope yours does, too. I think we all need to be a little more forgiving of people and we need to be willing to risk heartache in order to show love to another person (without expectations). That is something I have had trouble doing, and it is something God revealed to me through this process.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/7/2008 8:14:08 PM)

Well she wished me a happy birthday. Actually it was a "hows it goin comment" with a "BTW: Happy Birthday" thing.

Obviously she might just be being nice. But its better than being ignored.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/9/2008 10:12:30 PM)

We're messaging back and forth again so thats good. I'll see where it goes.

Just tryin' to be patient, most of the negative moments in my life have been due to lack of patience, at least in part. It would be a shame to lose her as a friend because I did something ill advised. I don't think she would be mad but if I made a move (like asked her out) and she wasn't interested I don't think she could deal with staying friends, at least for awhile. That doesn't mean I'm not going to ask her out ever, just that I want to lay a little more groundwork and find a good opportunity. Doing it the right way may mitigate the uncomfortableness on her part if it should go awry.

A little more info that may help: I'm fairly sure she has never been in a relationship before. I think she said something to that effect in one of our small group meetings (or maybe a MySpace survey thingy or both). I can't remember exactly why I believe that but I'm fairly certain its accurate.

Nice Lewis quote in the sig azroadrunner. Do you happen to know if it was from one of his stories (example: Narnia) or from one of his moral / philosophical tretices (example: "Mere Christianity", think that is what its called anyway)



Auben -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/10/2008 2:31:05 PM)

I agree with Miasma on this one.

Most women would be comfortable with a 'hey, want to go to coffee with Dave, Rose, and me after church on Sunday?' too. That way you could pursue the friendship in person (a big plus to seeing if you two are a good fit) and in a group it wouldn't feel like pressure on her to decide the do-I-like-him-like-that? question right away.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/10/2008 3:08:23 PM)

quote:

Most women would be comfortable with a 'hey, want to go to coffee with Dave, Rose, and me after church on Sunday?'


Good advice, thanks. Only difficulty is that I know one possible "Dave" somewhat and his wife (the "Rose") not much at all. I barely know the other possible "Dave" and never met his wife ("Rose") whom she is best friends with.

Sorry if I sound difficult, just providing info. The next step might be to cultivate the friendship with "Dave" 1 (which I am planning to do regardless) and see from there. I think I can ask him if she would freak out if I asked her to do something (or if a group thing would work) without sounding "intense".

quote:

I agree with Miasma on this one.


Her take was basically she has no interest, don't make a fool of yourself. Perhaps try to find out stealthily (word?). Is that what you're agreeing with? I'd rather try to avoild embarassment if that is what it would lead to and I'm just trying to get all sides.



azroadrunner -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/10/2008 5:29:38 PM)

quote:

Nice Lewis quote in the sig azroadrunner. Do you happen to know if it was from one of his stories (example: Narnia) or from one of his moral / philosophical tretices (example: "Mere Christianity", think that is what its called anyway)

Thanks, Rufas. I love this one, too. I believe it came from a book called The Four Loves. This is actually only part of the quote because it was too long to fit the signature. Here is the full version:

“To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal. Wrap it carefully around with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements; lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket—safe, dark, motionless, airless—it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable.” - C.S. Lewis



Auben -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/11/2008 3:40:21 PM)

quote:

Her take was basically she has no interest, don't make a fool of yourself. Perhaps try to find out stealthily (word?). Is that what you're agreeing with? I'd rather try to avoild embarassment if that is what it would lead to and I'm just trying to get all sides.


I think Mi's take was that it's impossible to tell if a girl likes you based on Internet chat. Internet chat can mean anything...even lengthy Internet chat.

There are 2 ways you can go from here: get to know her in person, slowly, or boldly ask her out.

If you want to avoid embarrassment probably the first one is in order. It doesn't have to be a couple, just some folks you both know (everyone doesn't have to know each other the same amount or be great friends). If you want to practice by asking other folks out for casual coffee after church start there. It's not a date. It's getting to know people in your church. Then you can work up to asking her in a 'hey, we've got this group going for coffee. do you want to join us?' kind of way.

I don't think anyone said 'give up.' I think they did say 'don't jump to conclusions about her feelings yet.'



Rufas2000 -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/11/2008 5:20:28 PM)

quote:

I don't think anyone said 'give up.' I think they did say 'don't jump to conclusions about her feelings yet.'


I know, though I honestly think Mia (she renamed herself now Wabi - Sabi) came close.

Believe me, I'm not jumping to conclusions either way. I still think I'm closer as far as the Internet thing than Mia / Wabi (sorry Wabi, its hard to change a name, ask Lisarox, a guy mistaken for a lady but I digress) is in this case (and only this case and this person, I understand how other people use the 'net). As far as her feelings, no conclusions, only questions.

I'll work on the "coffee after church" deal. Although I'm not a coffee drinker. [;)]

Thank you for your input, it is much appreciated. [:)]



Auben -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/12/2008 3:08:49 PM)

quote:

I'll work on the "coffee after church" deal. Although I'm not a coffee drinker.


[8D]

Hot chocolate, pancakes, pizza, or vodka work just as well (ok, maybe not the vodka).



Rufas2000 -> RE: Possible Relationship: Need Advice (see post) (3/12/2008 4:01:40 PM)

pizza & pancakes, there's my deal. OK, not at the same time.



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