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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/26/2008 4:49:28 PM
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Stand0877
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I have done some studying with Dr. Murray and don't recall him teaching any of this Black and white racial stuff. Before I take any mans word for anything thing I check it out and I don't believe he has ever taught any of that stuff. I would also Like to know how is he a racist. Just because he teaches about the tribes of Israel and decedents of them does not make him a racist. RC he does not teach out of context either. If you are a student of gods word then you would know that The bible was written In Hebrew(old test.) and Greek (new test.). That is how he teaches. Straight from gods word. Chapter by chapter and verse by verse. Out of the king James from the original greek and hebrew a manuscripts. isn't that how the bible was supposed to be taught. I consider myself a christian student of gods word and believe that Christ died on the cross for our sins. Tell me I am a racist because I believe that God never intended for the various races(ethnos) of man to mix. Does that mean I Judge. No. God is Judge. Do you think homosexuality is wrong or that I judge them?NO! God is judge. That is how he teaches. So to say he is a racist is wrong!
Stand
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/27/2008 1:43:37 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2266
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
I have done some studying with Dr. Murray and don't recall him teaching any of this Black and white racial stuff. Before I take any mans word for anything thing I check it out and I don't believe he has ever taught any of that stuff.
You sound very angry; that's understandable. But I do advise you to prove us wrong if you believe we are mistaken. My daughter truly respected Arnold Murray, was married by him, and has told me what she learned after being one of his followers for quite some time.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
I would also Like to know how is he a racist. Just because he teaches about the tribes of Israel and decedents of them does not make him a racist. RC he does not teach out of context either. If you are a student of gods word then you would know that The bible was written In Hebrew(old test.) and Greek (new test.). That is how he teaches. Straight from gods word. Chapter by chapter and verse by verse.
With his twist on every verse.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
Out of the king James from the original greek and hebrew a manuscripts. isn't that how the bible was supposed to be taught. I consider myself a christian student of gods word and believe that Christ died on the cross for our sins. Tell me I am a racist because I believe that God never intended for the various races(ethnos) of man to mix. Does that mean I Judge. No. God is Judge. Do you think homosexuality is wrong or that I judge them?NO! God is judge. That is how he teaches. So to say he is a racist is wrong!
Stand
To say he is racist isn't wrong.
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/27/2008 4:50:49 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2266
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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#1 Reason to ignore Arnold Murray is that he is a modalist.
Another false teaching of Arnold Murray is that the elect are those who stood against Satan in a pre-earth life. The Bible says:
Romans 9
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/27/2008 11:51:07 AM
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Stand0877
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Not sure what your point is Ephesians. Can you please expand on that thought? I would be happy to talk about whatever that is. However I would like to expand on my thoughts regarding racism and the serpent seed.
Regarding the serpent seed.
Matthew 13:37-39 states, "He (Jesus) answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."
Let no one tell you Christ was speaking in a parable here for He was carefully explaining to His disciples the real meaning of the parable He had previously spoken to the multitude. He talked with them in private, and He used language that a child could understand. Christ's teaching of the seed of the devil (or serpent) was nothing new, it was taught from the beginning of Scripture - Genesis.
In Genesis 3:15 God is speaking to the serpent, "and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shall bruise his heel." The bruising of the heel took place when Christ was nailed to the Cross. And finally, for those who still want further proof as to who the serpent really is; we read in Revelation 12:9, "and the great Dragon was cast out, that old Serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world." Now can anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear have any doubt or confusion about Satan's own seed? (www.shepherdschapel.com/answertothecritics).
Regarding Racism
God's Word directly teaches that our Heavenly Father created all the races and that it was good, (Genesis 1:27-28, 31). People of all nations and races shall be in the Temple of the Lord throughout eternity (Revelation 21:22-27).
(www.shepherdschapel.com/answertothecritics)
I am sure most are critical of this man. Why would you not be? If your like me raised as a Christian then you have been raised in a church that is teaching in a way that leaves most with a taste in there mouth, well that is like a hunger. A hunger for Gods word. An in depth teaching of it that most Church's don't teach. Because Pastor Murray teaches this way he has been called many a name. But as he always says and I have learned take no mans word for it without checking it out for yourself. Not even his or any other man for that matter. Most wont have Eyes to see or ears to hear as the parable of Matthew will prove but those who do are of the Elect that are spoken of.
Romans 12:20: Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
The Hunger that is referred to is not for bread or water. But for hearing and understand the word of God. Search the word hunger in Greek and Hebrew and find out what the meaning of it is and the context in which it was used. We have a church darn near on every corner of our street but people are Hungry. Something is not right here. If people are hungry why are they not being feed the truth of Gods word?
Pastor Murray is definitely out numbered in the way he teaches. However since I have studied with him and checked out I have never been left hungry. The only thing I hunger for is more and more truth. Something that is lacking more and more as time goes on our churches.
God Bless
Stand
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/27/2008 2:25:34 PM
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Ephesians4_32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
Not sure what your point is Ephesians. Can you please expand on that thought? I would be happy to talk about whatever that is.
See my Sequential Modalism thread in the God section.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
However I would like to expand on my thoughts regarding racism and the serpent seed.
Regarding the serpent seed.
Matthew 13:37-39 states, "He (Jesus) answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."
Let no one tell you Christ was speaking in a parable here for He was carefully explaining to His disciples the real meaning of the parable He had previously spoken to the multitude. He talked with them in private, and He used language that a child could understand. Christ's teaching of the seed of the devil (or serpent) was nothing new, it was taught from the beginning of Scripture - Genesis.
You are mistaken here. Genesis says nothing about Eve having sex with Satan, nor about Adam commiting a homosexual act with Satan.
Adam and Eve had several children together. Eve had no children with Satan. Arnold Murray teaches that Cain was the result of Eve having sex with Satan. That is not true. The Bible says that Adam knew his wife Eve and she bare Cain. It never says that Satan knew Eve and she bare a son.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TTABTG
Gen 4:1 ¶ And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Note: It was Adam who "knew" his wife, not satan.
You need to be extremely careful when someone comes along pretending to know more about the Bible than respected scholars. Arnold Murray condemns other pastors right and left.
The Bible talks about Seth's ancestry and makes no mention after this of Cain's ancestry. The Bible does not say that Cain descended from Satan. In fact all men, not just some, are guilty before God because Adam sinned(As in Adam, all die). We are all descendants of Adam and we all stand condemned and are followers of Satan until we come to Christ. We aren't born believing in Christ; we must be born again of the Spirit. "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18
Everyone knows that the Serpent is Satan. You say that some are literal descendants of him because the word seed is used. It isn't true that any of us descend from Satan anymore than we actually descend from God. The only way to become a child of God is to experience the new birth and to be adopted as a son. Satan's children are those who have not yet been born again; they are not literal descendants of Satan. They are descendants of Adam who have not come to Christ. Everyone who comes into this world is a sinner. A sinner is a follower of Satan. It has nothing to do with having descended from Cain. Adam was not a descendant of Cain and yet he is responsible for bringing sin to all of mankind.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
Regarding Racism
God's Word directly teaches that our Heavenly Father created all the races and that it was good, (Genesis 1:27-28, 31). People of all nations and races shall be in the Temple of the Lord throughout eternity (Revelation 21:22-27).
Genesis 1
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
God created one race. As in Adam all die. We die spiritually because we all descend from Adam. The remedy is Christ.
Acts 17
23For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Verse 26 says we are all related.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
I am sure most are critical of this man. Why would you not be? If your like me raised as a Christian then you have been raised in a church that is teaching in a way that leaves most with a taste in there mouth, well that is like a hunger. A hunger for Gods word.
We are blessed in this day and age to own at least one, if not several, Bibles.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
An in depth teaching of it that most Church's don't teach. Because Pastor Murray teaches this way he has been called many a name.
Perhaps he has been called a false teacher for teaching man-made doctrines that are nowhere to be found in the Bible.
Galatians 1
8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
But as he always says and I have learned take no mans word for it without checking it out for yourself. Not even his or any other man for that matter. Most wont have Eyes to see or ears to hear as the parable of Matthew will prove but those who do are of the Elect that are spoken of.
The elect are those who have been born again. If someone disagrees with Arnold Murray, he is quick to say that they do not have eyes to see.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
Romans 12:20: Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
The Hunger that is referred to is not for bread or water. But for hearing and understand the word of God. Search the word hunger in Greek and Hebrew and find out what the meaning of it is and the context in which it was used. We have a church darn near on every corner of our street but people are Hungry. Something is not right here. If people are hungry why are they not being feed the truth of Gods word?
They hunger because they do not have Christ!
John 6
35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
The elect will come to Christ. They don't need Arnold Murray.
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/27/2008 7:34:24 PM
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Stand0877
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If you own a strongs concordance. Here are references for the meaning of an important word in its original Hebrew .
GEN 3:13
And the LORD God said unto the woman , What [is] this [that] thou hast done ? And the woman said , The serpent beguiled me , and I did eat .
Prime root of Beguiled
Hebrew and and Chaldee Dictionary is nasha'(5377) meaning to lead astray i.e. metally delude or to seduce utterly.
Look up the word seduce in a Websters dictionary. The question I need to know before we continue our discussion is what language do you believe the Bible was written in? I will address your Genealogy of Cain question after a bit, it will take me some time to put together. Please don't be insulting though. Isn't this a Christian website. By insulting I mean you are talking down about my teacher. I would not do the same to you brother.
God Bless
Stand
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/27/2008 11:24:32 PM
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Stand0877
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I assume by modelist you mean that he teaches that God and Christ are the same. The only realistic and common sense response I have for you is "Emmanuel" . Which in Hebrew means "God with us". Not much more I can say. God sent his son. His son in which, was an extension of himself. God with us. The Father and the son. Yes two different beings but all the same. Is that what you mean? Or am I way off base? Let me know.
God Bless
Stand
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/27/2008 11:56:48 PM
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Stand0877
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Joined: 4/26/2008
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You wanted the genealogy well here it is. All of it. Not only is it for Cain but his offspring as well. Don't take my word for it though check it out for yourself. There is obviously more to this so I hope you take the time to get into this brother, It took some time to put this together. By not only me but my fellow students. Do read it all and check it out for yourself.
The Shepherd's Chapel' .. with Dr Arnold Murray CD # 30146.03
Genesis 4:1 - 6:22
4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, "I have gotten a man from the LORD."
4:2 And she *again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
*again H3254
יסף yâsaph yaw-saf'
A primitive root; to add or augment (often adverbially to continue to do a thing): - add, X again, X any more, X cease, X come more, + conceive again, continue, exceed, X further, X gather together, get more, give moreover, X henceforth, increase (more and more), join, X longer (bring, do, make, much, put), X (the, much, yet) more (and more), proceed (further), prolong, put, be [strong-] er, X yet, yield.
4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering He had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, "Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."
4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
Matthew
23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Matthew
23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zecharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
1st John
3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
John
8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. he was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Revelation
2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty (but thou art rich), and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days; be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Revelation
3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Genesis
4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, "Where is Abel thy brother?" And he said, "I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?"
Genesis
4:10 And He said, "What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's *blood crieth unto Me from the ground.
(Strongs concordance)
*blood H1818
דּם dâm dawm
From H1826 (compare H119); blood (as that which when shed causes death) of man or an animal; by analogy the juice of the grape; figuratively (especially in the plural) bloodshed (that is, drops of blood): - blood (-y, -guiltiness, [-thirsty]), + innocent.
4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth."
4:13 And Cain said unto the LORD, "My punishment is greater than I can bear.
4:14 Behold, Thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from Thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me."
4:15 And the LORD said unto him, "Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold." And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
HERE IS YOUR GENEOLOGY and so much more
4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
(notice how the offspring of cain have similar names to the offspring of Adam)
4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he built a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
4:18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begot Mehujael: and Mehujael begot Methusael: and Methusael begot Lamech.
4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
4:20 And Adah bore Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Genesis
4:22 And Zillah, she also bore Tubal-cain, an instructor of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.
4:23 And Lamech said unto his wives, "Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
4:24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold."
4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: "For God", said she, "hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew."
4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then *began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
*began H2490
חלל châlal khaw-lal'
A primitive root (compare H2470); properly to bore, that is, (by implication) to wound, to dissolve; figuratively to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one's word), to begin (as if by an opening-wedge); denominatively (from H2485) to play (the flute): - begin (X men began), defile, X break, defile, X eat (as common things), X first, X gather the grape thereof, X take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.
H2470
חלה châlâh khaw-law'
A primitive root (compare H2342, H2490); properly to be rubbed or worn; hence (figuratively) to be weak, sick, afflicted; or (causatively) to grieve, make sick; also to stroke (in flattering), entreat: - beseech, (be) diseased, (put to) grief, be grieved, (be) grievous, infirmity, intreat, lay to, put to pain, X pray, make prayer, be (fall, make) sick, sore, be sorry, make suit (X supplication), woman in travail, be (become) weak, be wounded.
Genesis
5:1 This is THE BOOK OF THE GENERATIONS OF ADAM. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made He him;
5:2 Male and female created He them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
5:3 And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
Matthew
13:37 He answered and said unto them, "He That soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. Quote ends in verse 50 ….teeth."
Genesis
5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
5:6 And Seth lived a hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
5:7 And Seth lived after he begot Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
5:8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
5:9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
5:10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
5:11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
5:12 And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:
5:13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
5:14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
5:15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
5:16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
Genesis
5:17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
5:18 And Jared lived a hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
5:19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
5:20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
5:21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
5:22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
5:23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Hebrews
11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Jude
1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints,
1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
Genesis
5:25 And Methuselah lived a hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
5:26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
5:27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
Genesis
5:28 And Lamech lived a hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
5:29 And he called his name Noah, saying, "This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed."
5:30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
5:31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy
and sevenyears: and he died.
5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat
Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Genesis
6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of *men(fallen angels) that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Jude
1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Genesis
6:3 And the LORD said, "My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.
6:4 There were *giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
*giants H5303
נפל נפיל nephîyl nephil nef-eel', nef-eel'
From H5307; properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant: - giant.
H5307
נפל nâphal naw-fal'
A primitive root; to fall, in a great variety of applications (intransitively or causatively, literally or figuratively): - be accepted, cast (down, self, [lots], out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing), fell (-ing), fugitive, have [inheritamce], inferior, be judged [by mistake for H6419], lay (along), (cause to) lie down, light (down), be (X hast) lost, lying, overthrow, overwhelm, perish, present (-ed, -ing), (make to) rot, slay, smite out, X surely, throw down.
Genesis
6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6:6 And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart.
6:7 And the LORD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth Me that I have made them."
6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
6:9 THESE are THE GENERATIONS OF NOAH: Noah was a just man and perfect in his *generations, and Noah walked with God.
*generations H8435
תּלדה תּולדה tôledâh tôledâh to-led-aw', to-led-aw'
From H3205; (plural only) descent, that is, family; (figuratively) history: - birth,
generations.
H3205
ילד yâlad yaw-lad'
A primitive root; to bear young; causatively to beget; medically to act as midwife; specifically to show lineage: - bear, beget, birth ([-day]), born, (make to) bring forth (children, young), bring up, calve, child, come, be delivered (of a child), time of delivery, gender, hatch, labour, (do the office of a) midwife, declare pedigrees, be the son of, (woman in, woman that) travail (-eth, -ing woman).
6:10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Genesis
6:13 And God said unto Noah, "The end of all flesh is come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
6:15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
6:16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
6:18 But with thee will I establish My covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
6:19 And of every living thing of all *flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
*flesh H1320
בּשׂר bâśâr baw-sawr'
From H1319; flesh (from its freshness); by extension body, person; also (by euphemism) the pudenda of a man: - body, [fat, lean] flesh [-ed], kin, [man-] kind, + nakedness, self, skin.
H1319
בּשׂר bâśar baw-sar'
A primitive root; properly to be fresh, that is, full (rosy, figuratively cheerful); to announce (glad news): - messenger, preach, publish, shew forth, (bear, bring, carry, preach, good, tell good) tidings.
6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
6:21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them."
6:22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did
he.
Hope that helps answer your question. Understand that this took time please read.
God Bless
Stand
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/28/2008 5:21:18 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2266
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From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
If you own a strongs concordance. Here are references for the meaning of an important word in its original Hebrew .
GEN 3:13
And the LORD God said unto the woman , What [is] this [that] thou hast done ? And the woman said , The serpent beguiled me , and I did eat .
Prime root of Beguiled
Hebrew and and Chaldee Dictionary is nasha'(5377) meaning to lead astray i.e. metally delude or to seduce utterly.
Look up the word seduce in a Websters dictionary.
I read my Strong's Concordance. Beguiled does not refer to a sex act, just as the word intercourse does not mean sex; it means "Dealings or communications between persons or groups." (HOUGHTON MIFFLIN)
2 Corinthians 11
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
(NIV) But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
beguile 1818 exapatao to seduce wholly: beguile, deceive.
Beguile means to deceive.
The serpent (Satan) deceived Eve by lying to her. Satan is the father of lies. (John 8:44)
Colossians 2
4And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
Colossians 2
1818Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/28/2008 5:42:31 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2266
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From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
You wanted the genealogy well here it is.
I didn't ask for Cain's genealogy because I already had it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
All of it. Not only is it for Cain but his offspring as well. Don't take my word for it though check it out for yourself. There is obviously more to this so I hope you take the time to get into this brother, It took some time to put this together. By not only me but my fellow students. Do read it all and check it out for yourself.
I have checked it out (years ago). Satan is not listed as an ancestor of Cain. When you do professional genealogy, you don't insert names into it on a whim. Making a list of Cain's descendants does not show you who his ancestors were, but we know that Adam and Eve were his parents because the Bible says so. The Bible is my authority:
Genesis 4
1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Psalm 127
3Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
As I said earlier, all of mankind since the fall are under Satan's power except when the Lord turns us from the power of Satan unto God.
Romans 3
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners!
Acts 26
17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
We are children of, followers of, under Satan's power until we we are turned from darkness to light.
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/28/2008 5:49:41 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2266
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From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
I assume by modelist you mean that he teaches that God and Christ are the same. The only realistic and common sense response I have for you is "Emmanuel" . Which in Hebrew means "God with us". Not much more I can say. God sent his son. His son in which, was an extension of himself. God with us. The Father and the son. Yes two different beings but all the same. Is that what you mean? Or am I way off base? Let me know.
God Bless
Stand
Let's discuss this HERE
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/28/2008 3:40:44 PM
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DTM
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I'd still like to know from which accredited college his degree came from and why he is afraid tell people.
Until he comes with it and the school in questions verifies it he's nothing but hot air and someone to be ignored.
What does he have to hide? A sure sign of a cult/mind control group.
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/28/2008 7:09:17 PM
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Stand0877
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I can see I am not welcome here. I thought this was a Christian community willing and able to listen with an open mind to various thoughts on what our Fathers word says. I am done debating with people that make me feel like a non-Christian. I believe in God and Christ and the Holy spirit so if that makes me part of a cult or a mind controlling religion then I don't belong here. I was going to continue our debate on this but realize that I am not welcome. If you would like to continue Ephesians let me know and we can figure out a way to communicate. I will check back tomorrow and see what you post. Sorry bro I just don't feel welcome. I am sorry I was enjoying our discussion. Arnold Murray is my teacher and is a man with solid credentials. If that doesn't fit with your forum I am sorry.
God Bless
Stand
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 4/29/2008 12:24:18 PM
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DTM
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Thread title: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray
Thats my take on it.
The whole Eve had sex with satan was enough throw up a lot of red flags.
I've looked into this guy long before this thread even came up.
I don't post a lot but I have been around crosswalk for awhile. Mostly just reading and researching.
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 6/23/2008 11:52:25 PM
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Judy_
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Actually, my husband and I watch The Shepherd's Chapel quite frequently
and we like his style of teaching and find him entertaining, interesting, and well read.
We had already come to some of the same conclusions he has before we found him on Cable.
He has actually explained many things that now make sense. Of course, nobody is 100% correct on all of it.
And, of course you can lose your Salvation. It is a gift, freely given but doesn't give you permission to sin over and over without repentence.
Jesus does the saving, and if you turn your back on Jesus how do you expect to enter the Kingdom, "save" or not? Jesus didn't fail, you did.
We don't attend "denominational" services. The word itself, means division. I don't believe 100% of what Orthodox Christianity says we must believe. Years of misinterpretation, false teaching, Greek Mythology and Philosophy have sneaked in, as well as all the nonsense that is now being accepted in modern times! It changes, yet the word of God is suppose to not change. The one time in the Bible that Easter was misused instead of Passover, and we gravitated to Easter, a Pagan Holiday.
Some of you are bent out of shape because the Shepherd's Chapel Celebrates Passover instead of Easter! Well, didn't Jesus become our Passover? My Bible says so in plain English. He was the sacrifice instead of the Passover Lamb. What's so heretical about that?
Denominationalism is big business! Look at the size and expensive of the Churches. All tax exempt. We attented a meeting once, where we were shown how to will everything we own to the Covenant Church!
When my neighbors mother died, her estate received a bill from the Catholic Church she attended for the amount of money she"owed" based on the pledge she couldn't afford. They were told where to stick it.
The woman couldn't afford to take care of herself!
What a bunch of BS! Jesus said not to bring a begging bag when preaching. How many Churches actually follow that teaching? The TV Evangelists make me sick! 45 minutes out of the hour most of them are talking about money.
I wonder where their main interest lies?
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 6/24/2008 10:43:55 AM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stand0877
I can see I am not welcome here. I thought this was a Christian community willing and able to listen with an open mind to various thoughts on what our Fathers word says.
Well then why are you so dilitary, why not discuss with an open mind and not lay everthing on the altar of Arnold.
Some of the fine folks here are just showing you Scripture that refuts what Arnold espoouses, so take it and study it, then decide.
Your out of hand rejection of anything non-Arnold shows that you have already drank the kool-aid.
I will pray for your enlightenment to the truth of Scripture, not scripture according to arnold.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 6/24/2008 10:56:01 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 1783
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: Saturn
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Arnold Murray is a heretic.
Not doctrinal error, not mistaken. Full blown heretic, and his teachings are racist, and dangerous.
Watching his videos could lull some without a good working knowledge of scripture into thinking he is a wise, elderly pastor, but anyone who studies the Bible in even the most rudimentary manner would soon realize what he teaches is a concoction of Mormonism, Armstrong ism, and his own Murray ism mixed into a theological toxic koolaid.
_____________________________
If the witch at Endor were alive today, I wonder if she would be a road side fortune teller, or an
"extreme prophetess " in an emotion based signs-and-wonders church.
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 6/24/2008 3:14:06 PM
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noblesinger
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Excellent description, bluestone! I couldn't have said it better myself . . . and now I'm jealous! Just kidding!!
_____________________________
"...the worth and excellency of a soul is to be measured by the object of its love." - Henry Scougal, The Life of God in the Soul of Man
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RE: Any take on Shepherd's Chapel pastor Arnold Murray - 6/26/2008 3:10:54 PM
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Judy_
Posts: 84
Joined: 6/23/2008
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Yes, there is justification that the boys were, indeed, twins.
The Hebrew says that, "Eve 'continued' in labor" (an ongoing act) and brought forth the other baby.
Of course, you have to look it up to see what the manuscript says.
Also, the two boys made their first offering at the same time, showing they were the same age.
The fact that they are called "brothers" rather than "twins" is because they were fraternal "twins". Fraternal twins are never more closely related than normal brother and sister. They would have been called twins if they had been identical.
Yes, the Bible mentions fruit instead of apple. Have you never heard the old saying concerning "Forbidden fruit?" It always has a sexual meaning. (wink, wink) I have an idea that this was a very well-known and accepted view of the story in days gone by. The expression, "Forbidden fruit" has always had a sexual meaning about it as a figure of speech.
The story of the Garden of Eden is written as a Euphamism, because what happened there was so sordid and ugly, that it is just in better taste to make a "cleaner" story out of it, so that the point of the story can be gotten across to young and old alike. The idea is the same. Sin is sin. When God says "Don't do it", then "don't do it!", regardless.
Actually, why did Adam and Eve cover their private parts if they ate fruit?
They were innocent up until that time. One body part had no better or worse, clean or dirty meaning than any other body part to them, innocent as they were. so why was this particular body part the one chosen to cover up and be ash | | |
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These teachings are sick! 
I don't know if DTM even read the posts to this thread.
