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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/3/2008 10:12:17 PM
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Saved-To-Serve
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint
REV 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
I don't see a need to get into a whole realm of interpretative gynastics with male and female.
John's writing here is pretty concrete. They haven't slept with a woman.
Sorry, but that is not what the scripture says.
It distinctly says that they have not been defiled with women.
When the bible says that the marriage bed is undefiled, it thus makes it clear that sex itself is not defiling, once done within the marriage confines. What is defiling is sex with someone to whom you are not married (fornication or adultery).
And what does the scripture say? They are virgins because they have not been defiled with women. They are virgins, not because they haven't had sex, but because they have not committed adultery or fornication.
In other words, the passage is not calling for a concrete, literalistic interpretation as you insist; but it is symbolic.
These 144,000 virgins from all the tribes of Israel will not be unsexed Israeli men (do you also, for consistency in your interpretation, insist that they will be literal Israelites?); they will be Christians (symbolised in the bible as virgins) of all sexes and all nationalities, who will have separated from (spiritually) adulterous churches and false religions (symbolised as harlots or impure women) during the end-time crisis.
quote:
I'd say plainly that these few in relation to the Harvest which will be a Great Multitude, are only men.
This does nothing to diminish all the references you have pointed out with the Church being the Bride of Christ or the whole concept of being a virgin spiritually, but none of those concepts are included in this passage which describes the 144,000.
There is really no basis for saying that none of those concepts are included in this passage, except that, when it suits you, you keep insisting on a literal interpretation, while the overall scriptural evidence shows that it can be different, and you yourself are non-literal when interpreting some aspects of the matter.
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/3/2008 10:29:42 PM
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Sinner-Saint
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I allow for the language to include aspects of virginity as well as the aspect of being spiritually pure.
I have already written about defining Israel, and in that aspect I have asked which of four different definitions of Israel are these: the man, the land, the people, or the "Spiritual" Israel.
I have said in my analysis that the 144,000 are of the same type as the Harvest. As the Harvest will include the Church, then some of the 144,000 could come from NT Saints and need not necessarily be Jewish ~ especially when John makes a list of Tribes unlike any other.
So I will retract a portion of my position; the 144,000 need not be "virgin" in the strictest sense of the word as I used it.
I have to allow for a broader definition when the Bible doesn't restrict it.
However, I think it still a stretch to say there are any women in the 144,000.
Women have led armies, but show me where they have been soldiers.
No, I think God will use men, and probably young men at that, to be a part of His Army.
It would not surprise me, however, if they weren't all virgins as well as true believers.
< Message edited by Sinner-Saint -- 2/3/2008 10:38:57 PM >
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/3/2008 10:42:01 PM
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bob97
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I think it probably means they are pure from idolatry. I see no reason to agree that they are the Church, this could be the case but based on the description: Israel and Tribes I continue to see them as being Jews.
The Book of Revelation is written to describe in principal the fate of the Jews. It does speak to the fate of the Church but it’s main thrust is Israel and the fulfillment of Romans 11:26.
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/3/2008 11:04:19 PM
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Sinner-Saint
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
I think it probably means they are pure from idolatry. I see no reason to agree that they are the Church, this could be the case but based on the description: Israel and Tribes I continue to see them as being Jews.
Well I still disagree; you are, however, free to think as you like.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
The Book of Revelation is written to describe in principal the fate of the Jews. It does speak to the fate of the Church but it’s main thrust is Israel and the fulfillment of Romans 11:26.
Bob
However, I think it is a mistake to say the book of Revelation does not concern itself with the Church.
In that vein, I think the reason for the Millennium is Romans 11:26.
There are two Resurrections in the Bible, first for the Living and then for the Living and the Dead. The second would include the Jews saved through God's mighty hand in the Millennium.
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/3/2008 11:13:47 PM
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bob97
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Saint, What was the meaning of the statement of Christ in Mat 23:39?
Mat 23:39 For I tell you this, you will never see Me again until you say, 'Blessings on the One who comes in the name of the LORD!'"
Does this statement include the Church?
Bob
_____________________________
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The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/3/2008 11:29:50 PM
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Sinner-Saint
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No, Jesus is addressing the unbelieving Jewish religious leadership whom He has branded as vipers.
From the Expositor's Bible Commentary:
quote:
The quotation is from Psalm 118:26 (also in 21:9; cf. 21:42 for another quotation from this psalm). The words may have been used by the priests in greeting the worshipers at the temple. Jesus, too, the true locus of Israel, must come, victorious and exalted, and receive greetings and homage from the religious authorities (cf. France, Jesus, pp. 58f.). Because of its location in Luke, "until" could refer to Palm Sunday, when people cried such words (Luke 19:38; cf. Matt 21:9); but as Marshall (Luke, pp. 576-77) points out, if Palm Sunday is in view in Luke, the cries of the people are but an ironic fulfillment that still looks forward to the consummation.
What Matthew refers to is perfectly clear. The Greek literally translated reads "You will not see me from now [aparti] until you say", and aparti is tied to the consummation (cf. 26:29, 64). Thus v. 39 looks, not to Jesus' resurrection appearances, but to his parousia. When he returns, all will acknowledge him. The context strongly implies that the Parousia spells judgment (cf. 24:30-31; Philippians 2:9-11; Rev 1:7); but the quotation of Psalm 118 keeps open the way Jesus will be received as consuming Judge or welcomed King (cf. Benoit; Schlatter; Goulder, pp. 429-30; Bonnard; contra Garland, pp. 207-9 and the literature there cited). But whatever the outcome, the immediate prospect is disaster: "for I tell you, you will not see me, etc."; i.e., the proof that judgment is imminent is that Jesus turns away and will not be seen again till the End.
So Jesus leaves the temple and goes away (24:1); and his words, which have dealt with judgment on Israel and with the consummation, evoke his disciples' twopronged question (24:3) and lead to the Olivet Discourse (chs. 24-25).
I think this doesn't refer to Jesus' parousia which all will see, but rather to an even future time to that: the start of the Millennium foretold by Zechariah 12:10b:
They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
Now how can people long dead see Jesus? Have you not read how Pharisees who lived before will live again in the Millennium? Yes, there is an earthly resurrection.
EZE 44:10 " `The Levites who went far from me when Israel went astray and who wandered from me after their idols must bear the consequences of their sin. 11 They may serve in my sanctuary, having charge of the gates of the temple and serving in it; they may slaughter the burnt offerings and sacrifices for the people and stand before the people and serve them. 12 But because they served them in the presence of their idols and made the house of Israel fall into sin, therefore I have sworn with uplifted hand that they must bear the consequences of their sin, declares the Sovereign LORD. 13 They are not to come near to serve me as priests or come near any of my holy things or my most holy offerings; they must bear the shame of their detestable practices. 14 Yet I will put them in charge of the duties of the temple and all the work that is to be done in it.
EZE 44:15 " `But the priests, who are Levites and descendants of Zadok and who faithfully carried out the duties of my sanctuary when the Israelites went astray from me, are to come near to minister before me; they are to stand before me to offer sacrifices of fat and blood, declares the Sovereign LORD. 16 They alone are to enter my sanctuary; they alone are to come near my table to minister before me and perform my service.
This goes against the present rules established in Hebrews 9:27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, there is no discrepancy. That is the rule now for the Church Age. However, God has set aside Israel and He will save all of Israel as Romans 11;26 indicates.
I think that is the whole reason for the Millennium, but when Christ comes and is a present reality upon the Earth; God changes the rules. Grace by faith will have passed since Jesus can be proved and faith is not necessary and those who lived before will get a second chance.
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/3/2008 11:55:11 PM
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bob97
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Than what is Zec 13"8-9 describing?
Zec 13:8 Two-thirds of the people in the land will be cut off and die," says the LORD. "But one-third will be left in the land.
Zec 13:9 I will bring that group through the fire and make them pure. I will refine them like silver and purify them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, 'These are My people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.'"
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/4/2008 9:22:32 AM
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Sinner-Saint
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Than what is Zec 13"8-9 describing?
The process which leads to the Remnant during the time of Jacob's trouble: the second half of the one 'seven.'
Read Ezekiel 9. In this passage, you will see the Lord in the physical Temple on Earth. He sends a man with a writing kit out to "mark" those whose heart has mourned over recent events - those who aren't marked are killed by the squad of six soldiers.
There is bloodshed on the Day of the Lord. Blood is a key component to this Day.
On this Day, specifically the second half, there are two battles fought around Jerusalem. One in it, and another just to the south. In the first is directed AT Jerusalem and a lot of Jews die. The second acts as a rear guard action against the forces of the King of the North and may be protecting the fleeing remnant from Jerusalem who have gone through the valley created when Jesus split the Mount of Olives.
In the parallel account of Revelation chapters 13 through 16, after the Harvest, an Angel goes to fill up God's Winepress of Wrath. This is another view of the same thing. Following the Rapture on the Day of the Lord, there will be blood all around Israel from the fighting. Blood both defiles and redeems. The Land of Israel will literally be awash in blood, which will "wash out" her sin.
This is all necessary so God can consecrate Israel as a the Rock upon which He will smash the Nations.
It is my conclusion that the 144,000 are the figthing force God uses in addition to Jesus and whatever Heavenly force the Angel(s) comprise.
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/4/2008 10:18:10 AM
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bob97
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Hi Saint,
So in effect you are saying that on the last day is when Zec 13"8-9 occurs and then afterwards all of Israel will return to be judged? Is my understanding correct?
By the way I agree with all of your last post.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/4/2008 3:14:00 PM
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Sinner-Saint
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
...the last day is when Zec 13"8-9 occurs...
I don't mean to sound flippant, but we have to define "last day" here. This is because there are different ends for different people.
For the Church: their last day is the first half of the Day of the Lord when Jesus comes.
For the Wicked: their last day is the last day of the one 'seven.'
For the Meek: their last day is 1335 days after the midpoint.
Now for the Church, while Christians are dying now and some are being martyred, the last chance for Salvation comes after the 144,000 are sealed when the 3 Angels go forth and the first spreads the Gospel message - this happens on the Day of the Lord - before the Harvest. We have to allow that some will come in at the last moment. However, after this, the Church is removed. The only way into Heaven for those left behind is to not worship the beast, take the mark, be martyred or included in the meek.
For the Wicked, they will not all make it to the end of the one 'seven.' Many will die from the desolations God has planned for them. Some of them will die on the first of God's Wrath which begins on the second half of the Day of the Lord. Others will be killed subsequently to that, and still others will make it to the end and see their demise there.
For the Meek, they will live through the whole ordeal. Still, even when all God's Wrath is finished, they will have to survive another 75 days. Not all will enter into the Millennium.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
...and then afterwards all of Israel will return to be judged? Is my understanding correct?
Well it might be, I have to be concerned with my understanding and correct myself. In these pages I found that I was wrong to assume the 144,000 were sexually virgin.
It is my understanding that Zechariah 13:8-9 describes the process by which God winnows out the chaff in the nation of Israel. It is a summary statement of what He will do. Thus, Zec 13:8 establishes a fact concerning what will happen to the Jewish people; only a third will make it.
But as to when Israel will be judged -
It is my understanding that this will happen after the Millennium at the second Resurrection.
Now regarding Resurrections, the Bible describes two Resurrections; the first for only the Living. The second is for both the Living and the Dead.
Now if God removes the Elect on the Day of the Lord and they are all the Living at that time as God defines them - then where does the second group of "Living" souls come from in the second Resurrection?
The answer is that Israel, who previously did not qualify because they rejected Jesus as their personal Savior when Jesus came, will come to know Jesus as Lord at the start of the Millennium.
If the Day of the Lord = Rosh ha-Shanah, and
God's Wrath = the Days of Awe, then
Jesus' revelation to the Jews at the start of the Millennium = Yom Kippur - the Atonement or as one Jewish author typified that festival "At-one-ment."
So the Millennium exists at a few different levels:
- It is a Sabbath 1000 year period of peace.
- Israel will get what it always asked for: to live under God's rules
- All of Israel will be saved.
- The other nations will follow Israel and worship the Lord (a first!)
- Once Satan is re-introduced: rebellion will always follow.
But it after the seventh "head" (leader) raises a rebellion against God's camp at Jerusalem that God completely obliterates the whole world. The third time, there are no survivors, no remnant.
Now ALL in their graves will be called up. Some to everlasting life as with the repentant Jews and other Meek who worshipped according to the sacrificial system Ezekiel describes in the latter chapters of his book - with a heart and spirit of worship as well - who are counted as the "Sheep."
The rest who are judged to eternal damnation would be the wicked from the time of Adam through the ages up to and including those who partook in the last rebellion against God's authority.
It is this time when the twelve Apostles will judge the twelve tribes of Israel. The Apostles had previously given an account of themselves at the "unveiling" of Jesus' Bride and have served as Priests to God during the Millennium. Now at its conclusion, having already been elevated by God, they serve as Judges and Israel will be judged.
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/4/2008 9:24:15 PM
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Saved-To-Serve
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint
However, I think it still a stretch to say there are any women in the 144,000.
Women have led armies, but show me where they have been soldiers.
No, I think God will use men, and probably young men at that, to be a part of His Army.
OK. So you’re basing your argument on the premise that the 144,000 will have to fight in the end-time battle, and that they must therefore be men. Of course you’re forgetting that in modern warfare women are being involved more and more.
But that aside, you’re again assuming that the battle will be of the traditional type fought along traditional lines. And I know that this view is taught in seminaries and churches and believed and accepted as orthodox by millions of Christians.
But again, it seems these scholars have assumed certain things and jumped to certain conclusions without studying the matter carefully.
So, what type of battle are we likely to be engaged in at the end of time?
Well, we gain from Eph. 6 an understanding of the warfare the Christian is called to fight, and the armour we are required to put on. Note: the armour suits the warfare.
"Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against *flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against *spiritual wickedness in *high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and *having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" (Eph 6:10-17)
Now, is that really the type of warfare to be fought in the end-time conflict, and the armour to be employed? Or am I as misguided as a man can be?
Well, note again the sword, the weapon with which we are to fight. It is the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Now, look over in Rev. 19 at the mighty warrior, none other than Jesus Christ Himself, who will be leading the armies of God in this battle. Note the battle weapon which He will employ, and with which He will smite the enemy.
"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations." (Rev 19:11-15)
There it is. The weapon which Jesus will use to defeat the enemy in the final battle is a sword which goes out of His mouth. Now what can that be but the sword of the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God (Eph 6:17)?
Clearly then, seeing the kind of weapon with which Christ and obviously His followers will be fighting, it will not be a traditional battle fought along traditional lines. In Eph. 6 Paul was instructing both male and female Christians to put on the armour of God. It is the same armour with which we will be clothed for the final battle. It is clearly armour that can be worn by both males and females, and it is obviously a battle in which both males and females will fight with and for the armies of the living God.
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/4/2008 10:08:25 PM
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bob97
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SS,
How many times did God ever inject a woman into battle in the Old testament?
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/4/2008 11:35:54 PM
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lightshineon
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Deborah in the OT.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
SS,
How many times did God ever inject a woman into battle in the Old testament?
Bob
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Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/5/2008 12:16:46 AM
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Sinner-Saint
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Saved to Serve:
The depiction by John of Jesus with a sword thrusting out of His mouth signifies more that a physical attribute. As God, Jesus' power to speak creatures, things, and events into existence cannot be underestimated. Truly, His Word is a mighty sword.
Moreover, on the night of His capture on the eve of Passover, just speaking His Name: I AM - Jesus literally bowls over a whole company of Roman soldiers, some 5 to 600. Now that's power in the Word indeed!
However the depiction of events in Joel and Ezekiel need not be totally figurative as you'd like to take things. In that vein, while Paul often used military terms to describe Christianity and even Jesus said the Gates of Hell could not withstand the Church; these descriptions of military action describe a very real fight that is going on in a spiritual realm which we can't see.
If you think about the latter description Jesus gives the Church, we are put on the offense because gates are a static, defensive position; one that has to be doubly stronger than the wall it is built into because it has to deny passage while being built to allow it.
Yet there is plenty of dichotomy in the Bible. While we are on the offense, yet in the end-times we are going to handed over. Don't like that verse? Well you can take it figuratively if you like...
But in Ezekiel, who tries to describe everything he sees, he sees six soldiers, guards, who are armed with weapons he doesn't recognize, except that he knows they are deadly. In Joel, these soldiers march in formation.
I put it to you that these prophets saw future events.
Now I have been thinking about my depiction of the 144,000 as soldiers and thus as men. There is an attribute of circular argument about it I have to admit. Still, Jesus as Lord tramples out the Wrath of God upon Israel and the 144,000 do not leave His side. So who are the soldiers?
They might be Angels, but I think it much more likely they are the Firstfruits, sealed against harm from God's desolations and imbued with some of Jesus' power as the Commander of God's Army.
< Message edited by Sinner-Saint -- 2/5/2008 9:14:29 AM >
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/5/2008 12:20:19 AM
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Sinner-Saint
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Bob,
If you know the number, you'll have to correct me on this point. I remember Deborah led an army as the leader (judge) of Israel and women have fought especially with the case of Jael, but as a matter of principle, only the modern age has saw fit to equate men and women and send women into battle as men.
< Message edited by Sinner-Saint -- 2/5/2008 12:27:47 AM >
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/5/2008 1:22:28 AM
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bob97
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Saint,
I think you have the number about right as I recall.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/12/2008 6:46:41 PM
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Saved-To-Serve
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
SS,
How many times did God ever inject a woman into battle in the Old Testament?
Bob
Into the traditional battle fought with sword and shield? Never.
But throughout history, including much of New Testament history, women have fought for truth, righteousness, and justice.
Women have faced persecution bravely, going to their deaths with unflinching courage and dignity.
This is the type of battle they will be called upon to fight in the final crisis.
Note what happens:
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Rev 12:17-13)
That’s the final war, which will be waged against God’s end-time people.
But how will this war be waged?
"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give *life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, *to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." (Rev 13:11-17)
Note the elements of this warfare:
• Deception – through miracles and falsehood
• Removal of civil and religious rights – can’t buy or sell
• Threat of death to force the conscience
• Death, if all else fails
Women have gallantly fought in such warfare in the past, and can do so in the end-time, once they put on the right armour.
"Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit" (Eph 6:14-18)
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/13/2008 11:09:54 AM
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Lapidoth
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Judges 4
v.4---Deborah, the wife of Lappidoth (torch), was a prophet who
had become a judge in Israel.
v.10 --- At Kedesh, Barak called together the tribes of Zebulun and
Naphtali, and ten thousand warriors marched up with him.
Deborah also marched with them.
I don't think we can say "never." lol.
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/14/2008 8:08:24 PM
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Saved-To-Serve
Posts: 183
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quote:
ORIGINAL: carlkeigley
Judges 4
v.4---Deborah, the wife of Lappidoth (torch), was a prophet who
had become a judge in Israel.
v.10 --- At Kedesh, Barak called together the tribes of Zebulun and
Naphtali, and ten thousand warriors marched up with him.
Deborah also marched with them.
I don't think we can say "never." lol.
Is this a vindication of the well-known maxim: "Never say 'Never'"?
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/14/2008 8:53:27 PM
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Sinner-Saint
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The rule is that women are not warriors. They are exceptions, but the rule is still valid.
God made us male and female. That's the rule. Still some are born half and half. Those are the exceptions. The exceptions do not invalidate the rule.
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/14/2008 11:01:52 PM
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Saved-To-Serve
Posts: 183
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint
The rule is that women are not warriors.
Of course women are warriors. And they fight the Lord's battles all the time.
PS. Carl has a sense of humour. I was simply responding.
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/15/2008 8:11:39 AM
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Sinner-Saint
Posts: 428
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Saved-To-Serve
Of course women are warriors. And they fight the Lord's battles all the time.
I am not talking about spiritual warfare which we all do.
I am talking about the Army which God uses on the Day of the Lord being like armies in general throughout history.
Modern political correctness aside; women do not fight wars like men. Sure they have fought in some form or fashion and in many varied roles, but to equate them as soldiers in a real sense is not justified.
Just making a point. :D
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/15/2008 11:24:37 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Saved-To-Serve
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint
The rule is that women are not warriors.
Of course women are warriors. And they fight the Lord's battles all the time.
PS. Carl has a sense of humour. I was simply responding.
LOL.. You must have a dry sense of humor to notice mine. lol.
Yeah, Huckabee, "It ain't over, 'til it's over!"
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/15/2008 11:25:58 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sinner-Saint
quote:
ORIGINAL: Saved-To-Serve
Of course women are warriors. And they fight the Lord's battles all the time.
I am not talking about spiritual warfare which we all do.
I am talking about the Army which God uses on the Day of the Lord being like armies in general throughout history.
Modern political correctness aside; women do not fight wars like men. Sure they have fought in some form or fashion and in many varied roles, but to equate them as soldiers in a real sense is not justified.
Just making a point. :D
Times have changed for sure.
I may be wrong, but I think that the boys and girls now
serve two years in the Israeli army. Perhaps because of
the numbers.
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: 144,000 NOT JEWS - 2/15/2008 3:07:11 PM
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Sinner-Saint
Posts: 428
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Carl, that was the case, but the Israelis found their men were chauvinistic and would protect the girls instead of fighting.
Female Israelis no longer serve as front-line soldiers.
The USA does incorporate women into many combat roles, but I still do not think they serve as front-line infantry either.
Still, we have to assess the modern, politically correct unisex ideal as the exception to the rule, and when looking at the Army Christ commands, we must ask if God would send women into combat, or in a figurative sense: His Bride, the Church.
Sorry. I don't think real men send their women out to fight for them, and Jesus as the Lion of Judah is a real man's man of a God.
I enjoyed the humor, by the way, but just want to stay focused on this minor point so as to make a point, as small as that is! 
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