RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and discussion thread too?
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/24/2008 12:51:08 PM
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clag4christ
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quote:
The problem really is what consititutes life threatening. There is at least one doctor blogging now who considers all birth life threatening and all homebirths completely irresponsible. Others genuinely believe a baby over 8 lb is at high risk without c-section, or that breech is terribly dangerous for everyone.
I agree completely with you here Maggie. My Hannah was 7 lbs. 12 ozs. and Jael was 8 lbs. even. Now they weren't large by my standards (even though I'm only 5'0")...but it seems to me that (and I could be wrong on this) that the national average for newborn weight is going down due to early inductions and c-sections (because of 'big baby fears'). I fully expect our next baby, should we be so blessed, to be larger than both my girls. Does that mean, that I should have a forced c just because of the size of my child? I don't think so...
Breech deliveries can't possibly be dangerous for everyone...my mother, though she had a c-section with my sister, was not actually a good candidate, from what I know now, even though my sister was breech. My mother went into labor with my sister between 31-33 weeks...she was 4 lbs. 4 ozs. Now that is a very very small baby...if there were no problems with the cord why on earth did she end up under the knife? Doesn't make sense to me.
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Stop vegetable genocide! Have a burger!
<-----Sweet Jael
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/24/2008 12:53:10 PM
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clag4christ
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quote:
One thing I've thought for a while, if a woman is "uneducated" about her options, how is that the DOCTOR'S fault instead of hers? I don't see why the doctors have to be attacked and maligned because women didn't know. If a c-section for a woman is unnecessary but she went along with it just because her doc said it's the best thing, but she later thought it hadn't been best (in other words, she "educated" herself AFTER the C), I still think that's on her and not the doctor.
But that's the thing...if her C-section was truly unnecessary the doctor should have known better. No one in here is maligning doctors. We've been sharing stories where we personally, or others we've known have either been lied to or not given the best medical care.
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Stop vegetable genocide! Have a burger!
<-----Sweet Jael
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/24/2008 1:01:48 PM
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solo_soprano22
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From: I'm a Southern girl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: clag4christ
quote:
One thing I've thought for a while, if a woman is "uneducated" about her options, how is that the DOCTOR'S fault instead of hers? I don't see why the doctors have to be attacked and maligned because women didn't know. If a c-section for a woman is unnecessary but she went along with it just because her doc said it's the best thing, but she later thought it hadn't been best (in other words, she "educated" herself AFTER the C), I still think that's on her and not the doctor.
But that's the thing...if her C-section was truly unnecessary the doctor should have known better. No one in here is maligning doctors. We've been sharing stories where we personally, or others we've known have either been lied to or not given the best medical care.
I wasn't talking about in this thread-- I've seen it in several (others) over the years here. I'm not saying a doc shouldn't know better, but I do think the patient still has responsibility and needs to take initiative if they don't want something done. Some doctors think it's routine to do c's and they actually think it's better (believe it or not), and they may know the risk is low. Every doctor is different, but it's not all their fault if the patient goes along with it. Patients need to do their homework too, IMO.
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For God, For Learning, Forever.
"Sometimes I Wonder Why" (Blog entry)
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/24/2008 1:06:57 PM
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myka
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With breech presentations, it depends on how the baby is positioned. From what I can tell, frank breech (butt first, legs/arms against baby's body) is the safest for vag. deliveries. However, it is risky and more complicated, and most OBs don't have much experience with breech deliveries.
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/25/2008 9:52:56 PM
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Krislynx
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I had an induction that went nowhere and had a c-section about 16 hours after we started (20 from when I arrived). The section was the only thing I really felt in control of. The cervical dilator did not work and I was having strong, regular contractions 2-3 minutes apart shortly after they started the pit. I wasn't dilating, I major back pain and I kept getting sent back to bed because they kept losing Bug on the fetal monitor so I was basically unable to do anything to try and manage the pain on my own. No epidural until I dilated and I wanted to stay away from Stadol both for Bug and because stuff like that makes me loopy and unable to concentrate or focus. So if it did not work (and didn't for anyone I know IRL) I would have been in even worse shape. So I decided on a c-section. For a long time Bug had been presenting in a transverse breech so I was actually more mentally prepared for a section then I was for the induction. Weird, I guess. I had an epidural, and they did the section while I was awake and I heard everything including Bug's first cry. I saw him within minutes and got to touch his face while Mark held him and I got stitched up. They tucked him in next to me for the ride to the recovery room (my hospital had operating suites and a recovery room on the L&D floor) then he went under the warming lights next to my bed. He stayed with us until I went to my reg. room and then he went to the nursery for his check-up and vit K shot etc. After the shot Mark had to come to my room and sit down! They brought Bug down about 15 minutes later. Sometimes I do feel like I should have tried harder but I was so tired and frustrated and did not see anything getting better since I could not do anything to relieve the pain other then stand in one place and that did not always work. Everything that did resulted in me going back to bed - the one place I did not want to be! Because of a number of issues I had an incision that means I am not a candidate for VBAC. My abdominal one is 6 inches long and starts an inch above my belly button. I obviously have not seen the uterine incision but the doc doing it said that it was not advisable to attempt a VBAC because of the uterine incision's placement and size.
Kris
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/25/2008 10:24:30 PM
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manda59
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Krislynx,
Is your scar vertical then? (as opposed to horizontal)
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/25/2008 10:52:09 PM
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Krislynx
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Krislynx,
Is your scar vertical then? (as opposed to horizontal)
Yes, right down the middle.
Kris
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/26/2008 8:31:52 AM
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Mrs.Wifey
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All these c-section because of failed induction stories make me SO glad for my "crunchy" medical "team". I feel thankful that they let me labor for 15 hours with NO progression and would have let me go even longer, it amazes me how many doctors won't do that... I was watching A Baby Story the other day and they lambasted a woman into having a C-Section after about 10-11 hours because she "wasn't progressing", she said "I just have no option" 
I labored for 15 hours at 3cm with a full on pitocin drip and epidural and then went from 3cm to fully dilated and delivered by 17 hours. It wasn't my ideal birth, but I would do it all over again.
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Ryanne Gabriella Alexis born 8-22-07!
The opinions stated in the above post are solely mine and in no way should they be
construed as offensive due to your own insecurity.
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/26/2008 9:59:53 AM
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peculiar_lady2
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Ryanne....it is very typical for a woman to "stal" in the dilation process at some point and then all of a sudden progress rapidly at the end. I always stall between 3 and 5...stay there for what would be about 3/4 of my labor....then when I am ready to go, watch out...cause I can go from 3/5 range to ten within literally 5 minutes sometimes (the more babies I have the less warning....one was as much as 15 minutes from the time I stopped stalling to holding baby...that was the longest)
Kris....that kind of C-sec. cut isn't normal....was there a problem? That's considered an emergency C-sec cut (from everything I have known....I had a cousin who had to be cut that way because they lost her breathing and the baby's and literally had about 45 seconds to get the baby out. She was closely monitored though because she would easily go into seizures...which she did several times during that hospital stay)
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"Some [babies] are just so inexplicably persnickety and unpleasing that it's easy to imagine that they were not actually floating in amniotic fluid but in pickle juice!" -Maggie (3cappuccinosmom)
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/26/2008 10:21:46 AM
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Mrs.Wifey
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I know it's common, Sarah, that's why it amazes me that Doctors are so impatient.
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Ryanne Gabriella Alexis born 8-22-07!
The opinions stated in the above post are solely mine and in no way should they be
construed as offensive due to your own insecurity.
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/26/2008 10:21:50 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2
Kris....that kind of C-sec. cut isn't normal....was there a problem? That's considered an emergency C-sec cut (from everything I have known....
Yes, an absolute emergency - like "we have to get this baby out NOW" kind of emergency.
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"I have nothing to add, except to agree with Manda."
(agapetos, July 2008)
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/26/2008 10:48:57 AM
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peculiar_lady2
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2
Kris....that kind of C-sec. cut isn't normal....was there a problem? That's considered an emergency C-sec cut (from everything I have known....
Yes, an absolute emergency - like "we have to get this baby out NOW" kind of emergency.
yeah...exactly....like I said, my cousin they literally had like 45 seconds to get her cut and baby out. I have never heard of that cut in anyone that wasn't immediate EMERGENCY though
_____________________________
"Some [babies] are just so inexplicably persnickety and unpleasing that it's easy to imagine that they were not actually floating in amniotic fluid but in pickle juice!" -Maggie (3cappuccinosmom)
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/26/2008 11:36:25 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2
yeah...exactly....like I said, my cousin they literally had like 45 seconds to get her cut and baby out. I have never heard of that cut in anyone that wasn't immediate EMERGENCY though
Found this info on a Swiss medical site HERE
quote:
Upper Segment Caesarean Section
Indications
Dense adhesions, extensive varicosity or myoma in the lower uterine segment making its exposure or incising through it difficult.
Impacted shoulder presentation.
Anterior placenta praevia.
Defective scar in the upper segment.
Cancer cervix.
Rapid delivery is indicated.
If a concomitant tubal sterilisation will be done.
Previous successful repair of high vesico-vaginal or cervico-vaginal fistula.
Post-mortem hysterectomy.
Procedure
Abdominal incision: is vertical.
Uterine incision: 10 cm vertical incision is made in the midline of upper uterine segment without incising the peritoneal coat separately as it is adherent in the upper segment.
Extraction of the foetus: as a breech in cephalic presentation.
The last layer of the uterine incision closure includes the superficial part of the myometrium with the peritoneal covering.
The remainder of the procedure is as lower segment C.S.
_____________________________
"I have nothing to add, except to agree with Manda."
(agapetos, July 2008)
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/26/2008 1:49:42 PM
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myka
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With the horizontal incision, a VBAC is possible (however, with the insurance issues-doesn't happen much) because the muscle fibers run horizontally, so the incision is between the fibers rather than cutting through them.
When my sis had her first child in 1988, she had a horizontal incision. I seem to recall that they also said that the recovery was easier that way also. She also already had a scar from her bladder surgery when she was young, so it was at the same place. My MIL had a c-section with her last child in 1972, and that was vertical.
Usually now, they only do the vertical incision if there is a serious emergency...
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/26/2008 2:30:59 PM
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solo_soprano22
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I didn't know they used prostaglandin gel to induce labor purposefully (in addition to other stuff). Ya learn something new every day I guess.
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"Sometimes I Wonder Why" (Blog entry)
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 1/26/2008 8:06:46 PM
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Krislynx
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quote from sarah/peculiarlady
Kris....that kind of C-sec. cut isn't normal....was there a problem? That's considered an emergency C-sec cut (from everything I have known
I did not have an emergency c-section. I have some anatomical issues that made it the best option for me. Because Bug was in a transverse breech for so long I actually had done a lot of reading and research (and talking to the OB) about the c-sections. I do know that is normally the emergency cut, but like I said it was the best one in my case. I knew in advance and gave permission for the them to use that cut. A major factor in making that decision was the fact that Bug is most likely our only child. Mark really does not want any more. If we were planning on more I think I would have dealt with the issues the other cut would have caused me in order to have a shot at VBAC and a safer (IMO) pregnancy. Thanks for your concerns! BTW, I totally credit the induction for causing the c-section. Because of the monitoring necessitated by the pit (which gave me really strong contractions waay too early on - they had to keep turning it down  ) I couldn't try to manage the back pain I was having. The contractions, although strong were not really all that painful, I am sure that would have changed! Of course as soon as I had dilated at all they were going to try and break my water to "speed things up". Not sure I would have let them, but can't say for sure since it obviously never came up. One thing that really surprised me was how little pain I had after the c-section. Two days later I cut my dilaudid dose in half (with the doc's knowledge) and was off both it and motrin within 10 days. I did have to take things slow and had a lot of trouble positioning Bug for nursing but it really did hurt unless I aggravagated it. The worst was when the LC decided to "drop" Bug on my stomach to put him in the right spot! Of course that was the LC I never really like anyway. Well, gotta go. Bug is tired and tonight is a big night for all of us - he is moving to his own room!
Kris
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 2/3/2008 11:46:30 PM
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danas_mom
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Well it took me a while to decide to come in and read this thread.
how many births have you had? Three.
how many would you categorize as "hard" whether emotionally or physically because of medical reasons? Three.
do you plan on/did you decide to stop having babies because of a traumatic experience with a birth? No, we knew three kids was our number, but I had to really, really talk myself into knowingly going through another c-section.
quote:
for those with medical issues, how many babies do you (at this time) think you would be up for having before you decided to stop (because of medical reasons....let's not get into the whole "children are a blessing" thing...we all know they are...I am just asking about medical issues, not your moral beliefs)? As above, three was our number, but my body handled pregnancy worse and worse with each one so even if we hadn't known beforehand, I can't imagine we'd have another.
My story...
First baby, I went in for an induction at 41 weeks, 3 days. It was commonplace where I was from to have an induction so I never thought to question it. Started pitocin around 8 am, contractions hit SUDDEN and HARD about three hours later, had an epidural shortly after that. Nurse never bothered to explain that I had a button to push that would administer more meds if I started feeling pain again, so about four hours later I was hurting very bad again. They administered more meds, then about 8 pm the doctor on call decided that I needed a c-section because I wasn't progressing enough. I was 9 cm. She had me push, I remember this part very clearly, she had me push one time for about six seconds (I was counting to ten in my head, I had watched A Baby Story religiously for months, and was surprised when she cut me off early) and said, and I quote, "Well, that's not getting you anywhere. We need to go ahead with the section."
My daughter was born at 8:36 pm. They never even bothered to hold her down where I could see her, much less touch her, I barely got a glimpse of her black hair as they walked by and told my husband to come with them while they cleaned her up. So I figured they would get her cleaned up while the doctor was stitching me up, and that I would get to see her and hold her shortly. I was having a reaction to the meds at that point and was shaking violently. Someone finally gave me some heated blankets after I got into the common recovery room and that helped a little. I was alone in the recovery room, I really don't remember how long I was in there. I was in and out of consciousness - not like what Sarah describes, but I would fall deeply asleep and have a very hard time waking up when someone was talking around me.
Hubby and I got to my regular room probably around 10 pm. I think my sister and my mom brought him something to eat, and then everyone but us left. They all told me how beautiful the baby was, how she had a head full of thick black hair. Still I laid there and waited to have her brought to me, I knew they would want me to try to nurse her soon.
Finally at about 11:30 I had my husband call and ask them if they were going to bring her down, or what. They acted surprised that I didn't want them to just keep her in the nursery that first night. Which is fine, because I needed the rest, but I had not even SEEN her yet, much less been able to hold her and try to feed her. So finally about ten minutes later, I got to see my baby.
Things after that are kind of a big blur. I was very, very disappointed and depressed that I had ended up with a c-section, which surprised me greatly because going into it I really didn't care, I was just happy that I was going to get to see my baby soon. Nobody understood my disappointment so I learned to just stop bringing it up and figured something was wrong with me.
Second baby, I was determined to have a VBAC. Actually up until I went in for my first prenatal appt I thought a VBAC was out of the question because I had a vertical scar. What I didn't know was that my outer scar is vertical, but the inner scar is horizontal. So once I learned that they would be ok with me attempting a VBAC, that was all she wrote. I was determined. I read everything I could about VBAC's, about what was best as far as being induced, blah blee blah blah. Read and posted on message boards about VBAC's. Had dreams almost nightly at the end of my pregnancy about going into labor and feeling myself push the baby out.
Went in for a regular doctor's appointment at 41 weeks, 1 day. Doctor had been wanting to induce but I kept refusing, based on what I had read. I was terrified that an induction would automatically equal another c-section. Doctor wanted to do a non-stress test since I was over a week past due, with no real progress (I think I was 1 cm dilated, if that, and had been for a few weeks). I called my hubby from the hospital room and told him what was going on and laid there watching the news while they had the monitor going. The doctor came in and I turned the TV off, she looked over the monitor results and very gently told me that there was an indication of distress, and I thought she was going to say they were going to go ahead and induce. I was kind of relieved because I thought well, now the decision about inducing has been taken out of my hands. Then she went on to say that they were going to start prepping me for a c-section, and I needed to call my husband and have him get down there ASAP. I stared at her in shock for about three seconds and burst into hysterical tears. She didn't know how to react to that (if ya'll knew me IRL, you would understand - I never break down in front of anyone other than my husband, NEVER) and jumped up and grabbed a bunch of tissues while I wailed.
Honestly, I don't remember very much at all after that except that it took them at least twenty minutes to get the spinal in place because I kept shaking and jerking myself away from the needle when they would try to put it in. They were getting very angry with me but it was an involuntary response, I was really trying to hold still. I still shudder when I think about the feeling of that needle scraping against my spine. Hubby had to scramble to get my daughter somewhere and get to the hospital, he barely got there in time for the birth.
My son was born at 8:32 pm. I don't remember....well, I really don't remember anything else about my hospital stay except that my daughter was iced in at my parents' with no electricity, so she couldn't come to the hospital to see me, and the one time I got to talk to her on the phone she didn't say anything other than "I want you!" and sobbed. And, total opposite of how things went with my daughter, they would leave the baby in the room with me for hours on end and would get very annoyed with me when I needed help (I was alone in there most of the time and couldn't easily get to him).
Third baby, I knew would have to be an elective c-section. That whole pregnancy and delivery is a blur for me, because I just flat out blocked a lot of it out. FIL was in the hospital at the same time dying - literally - so everthing about that time was just really messed up.
I do remember the anasthesiologist was very, very nice - he stayed with me during the entire procedure so he could monitor my reactions closely, and he rubbed my hair and held a bucket for me to throw up in and kept me calmed down. I druggedly told him "Thank you for being so nice" when it was over. I'm sure I sounded like a dork but I was trying to be really sincere so he would know how much that meant to me. He was the only person in three surgeries that made me feel like anyone cared about me and what I was feeling.
Dadgum. Crying again. Someday I will be able to think about my birth stories without this feeling.
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RE: Do we need an UNNatural childbirth support and disc... - 2/4/2008 2:51:53 AM
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manda59
Posts: 5200
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(((danas_mom)))
So sorry for what you went through.
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Placental abruption too. And cord prolapse obviously. Or a baby who was obviously in distress even before labor. 
There is enough evidence that that kind of breech is barely, barely more risky than vertex if your caregiver knows what he is doing. But if my waters burst and the baby's feet or hand were presenting, I'd get on hands and knees, stick my butt in the air, and tell the paramedics to call the hospital and tell them to get their scalpels ready. 
