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Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/8/2008 6:27:08 PM
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thingsgetharder85
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This is mainly a follow-up question to a previous post asking people whether satan could know the future. I got very mixed answers, probably about 50/50 in regards to yes or no. However, as you could tell from the title of this post, there is just one more question that I would like to ask. I wanted to divide the questions so that one would not be changing the answer to fit the question that I ask. Could you please explain to me why, since paganism is very much older than Christianity, there are many many beliefs of it that are strikingly similar to your religion in regards to Jesus, his life, et cetera. I am not a Pagan, but rather a Christian who for a long while has been leaning more and more towards Judaism. The tendency has not come from influence of another, but rather my own studies of the bible, the time it was written, by whom, and the general feeling of the time. I never wish to plead ignorance from any side of the playing field, and want to know--coming from Christians--how exactly you can explain this. If you need more information on the subject of paganism and such, I suggest researching it before speaking. Some sources are more complete than others, so I suggest reading more than one source...
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/8/2008 6:48:36 PM
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jfaye
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quote:
re: "Could you please explain to me why, since paganism is very much older than Christianity, there are many many beliefs of it that are strikingly similar to your religion in regards to Jesus, his life, et cetera."
Can you provide some examples first, please?
_____________________________
Thankfully His,
Janice
"We cannot appreciate God's mercy until we realize He is first the God of justice!"
"O taste and see that the LORD is good;
How blessed is the one who takes refuge in Him!"
Psalm 34:8
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/8/2008 6:57:48 PM
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earthless
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Many would argue that Christianity (real biblical Christianity) started with the beginning of mankind, of our known time and existence. In that it all started with "In the beginning....."
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/8/2008 7:20:42 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Many would argue that Christianity (real biblical Christianity) started with the beginning of mankind, of our known time and existence. In that it all started with "In the beginning....."
Absolutely! Also, Jesus was first "mentioned" in Genesis - Genesis 3 v 15.
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/8/2008 9:00:53 PM
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HY4Him
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Firstly: The reason that the pagans have similar beliefs is because these events throughout history actually happened and the pagans have tried to come up with their own explanations for these events (the flood is a common one). But there is only one Truth behind it all.
Secondly: What part of Judaism are you "leaning towards"? The Jews (who didn't become followers of Jesus) denied that Jesus was the Messiah, and if you deny this, then you can't really call yourself a Christian (as you do), and without Jesus, there is no eternal life. Just trying to work out where you are coming from...
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/8/2008 9:18:31 PM
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SonInMe1
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satan is a liar and imitator. he cannot create. So, he lies and tries to pervert truths, hence, the simularities between his religions and christianity.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/9/2008 5:08:42 PM
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kingdust
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quote:
Could you please explain to me why, since paganism is very much older than Christianity, there are many many beliefs of it that are strikingly similar to your religion in regards to Jesus, his life, et cetera. I am not a Pagan, but rather a Christian who for a long while has been leaning more and more towards Judaism. The tendency has not come from influence of another, but rather my own studies of the bible, the time it was written, by whom, and the general feeling of the time.
The most the pagan influence on Christianity comes from your self, my self, his self and her self, all of which are called 'the old self' in NT term.
If you connect all the words underlined, you can come up with a pagan Christian being your religion by your own study.
The simple paganism is 'my way' thinking of what God is.
My own study surely can come up with my way of understanding what God is.
It is called, 'the private interpretation', same as MHO, which is shared by us all.
In OT terms, it is prophecy from own imagination, different words but the same effect.
As long as you have the good old self, you got the pagan embedded within, influencing your life against the life of God which you may or may not have depending on your number of birth, or personal invitation if you will.
If the number is once, all you have is your good old self who is a good old pagan.
If twice, you have two lives within self- pagan life on one side and a Christian life on the other side.
If you don't see the difference between the old and the new, you are more likely either being heavily influenced by the old self or being without the new self.
The good old self is the good old pagan.
And, who doesn't live under its influence?
_____________________________
I am an English as Second Language person and love corrections, kind or unkind, positive or negative, with love or without love, which I am grateful of. Just GIVE!
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/9/2008 5:51:54 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
I am not a Pagan, but rather a Christian who for a long while has been leaning more and more towards Judaism.
When exhorted to deny Christ in order to save his own life, St. Polycarp told the Roman magistrate, "86 years I have served the Lord Christ, and He has done me no wrong. Why should I now deny my God who has saved me?"
What wrong has Jesus done to you that you are willing to even contemplate denying your Savior and God?
Unless, perhaps the Lord Jesus Christ has never really been your Savior and your God? If that's the case, my friend, I pray for you the joy of redemption and participation in a Kingdom that has been compared to an eternal party.
Doesn't the notion of joining the world's ultimate state of denial scare you? What has Jesus done to you that makes you willing to toy with the idea of joining in the long sour pout of those who call Him the illegitimate son of the village whore?
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/9/2008 6:54:47 PM
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earthless
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The massive amount of evidence for Jesus being God, mankind's only one answer.. is something that made me turn from being an adult agnostic to a born-again believer.
With each turn of the archaeological spade the veracity of the Bible being the Word of God is jaw dropping.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/9/2008 8:11:12 PM
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GeorgiaNerd
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Interesting topic. I have been wondering why the pagan myths came before the similar Christian stories for a while now.
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/9/2008 9:44:49 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
I have been wondering why the pagan myths came before the similar Christian stories for a while now.
When C. S. Lewis raised this point with his good friend J. R. R. Tolkein, Tolkein explained that the Christian "myth" was the true one. The others were dim reflections and anticipations. This conversation was a key point in Lewis's conversion.
We just finished Lewis's story Til We Have Faces, which is based upon the theory that even pagan myths were responses -- though imperfect -- to realities.
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/9/2008 9:46:19 PM
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SonInMe1
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Also, I believe satan was created before man
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/9/2008 11:17:36 PM
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groovymovieman
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To answer the OP I have to open a can of worms that may not make some people happy. But I want to say right off that I am a follower of Christ and love His church. I don't mean to offend my brothers and sisters.
The reason why Christianity and paganism seem so simular is simply because much paganism has crept into the church over the centuries. Constantine, when he paved the way for Christianity to become the state religion of Rome, merged many Roman pagan practices with Christian belief. But for many Christians before that merger and for many people today it's not about a system of beliefs, rituals, traditions and stories, but it is about knowing and having a personal relationship with Father God through His Son Jesus Christ. The life that is found in Him can not becontained in stories, practices and rituals but is evident in the lives of those who know Him. No system of beliefs or practices can even come close to the reality of knowing Him and living in His love.
_____________________________
To a pharisee, "Truth is more important than love."
To the spiritually healthy, "Love is the most important part of truth."
www.familyroommedia.com
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/10/2008 12:38:06 AM
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Okami
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If you can find the other post (I don't have the time atm and couldn't find it quickly)
But I think it was in this forum called "questions" or something.
It was about the same thing, and used Horus as an example.
But, I broke down each claim, and basically, it came down to 3 vague similarities, and several outright made up claims, and some extreme stretches, as well as twisting recorded records.
Looking at each pagan diety that makes the "similarity" claims, you come across the same thing in each case. A couple things that might match, and lots of mental gymnastics paired with imaginary claims.
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My ancestors were humans. Sorry to hear about yours.
Bible answer men the way it should be done.
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/10/2008 2:47:13 AM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: thingsgetharder85
Could you please explain to me why, since paganism is very much older than Christianity, there are many many beliefs of it that are strikingly similar to your religion in regards to Jesus, his life, et cetera.
Definition of terms and examples, please.
quote:
I am not a Pagan, but rather a Christian who for a long while has been leaning more and more towards Judaism.
"We have freedom now, because Christ made us free. So stand strong. Do not change and go back into the slavery of the law." - Galatians 5:1
quote:
The tendency has not come from influence of another, but rather my own studies of the bible, the time it was written, by whom, and the general feeling of the time.
If you have really studied the Bible, then you should be doing cartwheels of joy in the realization that you are a part of the most reasoned faith to ever exist.
The Bible is the most historically accurate ancient document in existence.
The process of canonization) can be trusted.
The Bible is the archetype of internal consistency even though it was written over hundreds and hundreds of years by dozens of different humans.
The Bible always proves science, and science has never disproved a word of the Bible.
The Bible contains scores of verifiable prophecies made hundreds of years before they were fulfilled to the letter.
The Gospel accounts prove a historical, real, Jesus.
(on and on, ad infinitum).
quote:
If you need more information on the subject of paganism and such, I suggest researching it before speaking. Some sources are more complete than others, so I suggest reading more than one source...
What we need is more information from YOU on the subject of what you believe about paganism.
< Message edited by ManimalX -- 1/10/2008 2:53:14 AM >
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/10/2008 6:33:58 AM
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kingdust
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quote:
If you need more information on the subject of paganism and such, I suggest researching it before speaking. Some sources are more complete than others, so I suggest reading more than one source...
quote:
What we need is more information from YOU on the subject of what you believe about paganism.
I don't think you do need any more information on the subject of paganism because the Bible has enough information about it, like what and how it is.
The root of the paganism is none other than what someone say what God is, just like the old serpent who added its opinion on what God said and sold it to Eve, Eve to Adam.
Simply put, 'what I think or believe what God is'.
Once disconnected or removed from the true source and reference of the true life, the creatures with the embedded image of God could no longer refer themselves to God without seeing God from own stand point.
Another word, 'own opinion'.
As long as God is the third person, even the second person, this seeing of a relative being cannot be avoided, adding more of the subjective view and being removed that much further away.
Cain was removed only once, and he established his own right standing and own way to go to God all by himself.
The rest is not too hard to imagine.
_____________________________
I am an English as Second Language person and love corrections, kind or unkind, positive or negative, with love or without love, which I am grateful of. Just GIVE!
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/10/2008 8:32:23 AM
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mariadreamer
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Here's a segment from Lewis' essay "Religion Without Dogma?" (republished in God in the Dock, pp. 129-146, quote from pg. 132; paragraph breaks added for readability):
Quotation:
I believe that in the huge mass of mythology which has come down to us a good many different sources are mixed ... among these sources I include the supernatural, both diabolical and divine. We need here only concern ourselves with the latter. If my religion is erroneous then occurences of similar motifs in pagan stories are, of course, instances of the same, or a similar error. But if my religion is true, then these stories may well be a preparatio evangelica, a divine hinting in poetic and ritual form at the same central truth which was focused and (so to speak) historicised in the Incarnation.
To me, who first approached Christianity from a delighted interest in, and reverence for, the best pagan imagination, who loved Balder before Christ and Plato before St. Augustine, the anthropological argument against Christianity has never been formidable. On the contrary, I could not believe Christianity if I were forced to say that there were a thousand religions in the world of which 999 were pure nonsense and the thousandth (fortunately) true. My conversion, very largely, depended on recognizing Christianity as the completion, the actualization, the entelechy, of something that had never been wholly absent from the mind of man.
And I still think that the argument from similarities between Christianity and paganism works only if you know the answer. If you start by knowing on other grounds that Christianity is false, then the pagan stories may be another nail in its coffin; just as if you started by knowing that there were no such things as crocodiles then the various stories about dragons might help to confirm your disbelief. But if the truth or falsehood of Christianity is the very question you are discussing, then the argument from anthropology is surely a petitio.
Unfortunately, historians too often assume that, if A is like B and A preceded B, then A was the cause/inspiration/formative influence of B (the post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy - "after this, therefore because of this"). The idea that some C led to both A and B doesn't get much attention from their neurons (unless, of course, A causing B would upset the historian's pet theory).
_____________________________
Christ is risen from the dead,
by death He has trampled down death,
and on those in the tombs bestowing life!
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/10/2008 10:50:05 PM
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jfaye
Posts: 702
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quote:
quote:
re: "Could you please explain to me why, since paganism is very much older than Christianity, there are many many beliefs of it that are strikingly similar to your religion in regards to Jesus, his life, et cetera."
Can you provide some examples first, please?
Still would like for you to provide examples of what you are referring to?? Please?? Much easier to address them when you are clear about the ones that are concerning you!
_____________________________
Thankfully His,
Janice
"We cannot appreciate God's mercy until we realize He is first the God of justice!"
"O taste and see that the LORD is good;
How blessed is the one who takes refuge in Him!"
Psalm 34:8
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/11/2008 2:52:59 AM
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Okami
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I'm wondering if the "christianity" argument is based on a catholic experience. Then it might make sense.
But curious,
why lean towards Judaism?
You are holding a picture of your bride, holding onto the promise of their coming.
Suddenly the bride shows up and you can be with them forever.
Why would you want to keep your attention on the picture instead?
_____________________________
My ancestors were humans. Sorry to hear about yours.
Bible answer men the way it should be done.
No shows focused on their books, their guests books, nor religion bashing. Just calls and answers.
http://www.csnradio.com/tema
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/11/2008 3:37:52 AM
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ManimalX
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I'll just state a conclusion here:
The idea that Christianity plagiarized older Pagan religions and deities such as Mithras has been supremely discredited for quite some time. The rise of the internet has given a platform to many uninformed e-scholars who have tried to revive the discredited "Christian plagiarism" arguments.
Again, the assertion that Christianity did not borrow from some older paganism is pretty well academically established.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/11/2008 4:35:05 AM
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growingseed
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Jesus told this parable about this Matt 13:37-39 "All right, he said. I, the son of Man, am the farmer who plants the good seed. The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the kigdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one. The enemy who planted the weeds among the wheat is the Devil. The harvest is the end of the world, and the harvesters are the angels". NLT Matt 22:7-9 "Now go out to the street corners and invite everyone you see. So the servants brought in everyone they could find, good and bad alike, and the banquet hall was filled with quest".NLT So, some of the world may get through on some things, but the Lord will keep his flock protected.
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/11/2008 6:41:55 PM
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JesKlu
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The reason why we haven't received any help from pagans in preaching the Gospel is because they don't have the Holy Spirit to teach. Therefore pagans are not interested in the Truth of the Gospel for themselves to have eternal life.
3 John 5-8
5Dear friend, you are faithful in what you are doing for the brothers, even though they are strangers to you. 6They have told the church about your love. You will do well to send them on their way in a manner worthy of God. 7It was for the sake of the Name that they went out, receiving no help from the pagans. 8We ought therefore to show hospitality to such men so that we may work together for the truth.
Earlier in a post kingdust spoke of the old self, pagan thinking. Pagans don't work together to preach the truth. This is why in verse 8 we read,
8We ought therefore to show hospitality to such men so that we may work together for the truth.
This means Christians who meet in Jesus' name work together for His cause and agreement. Where again the pagan cannot agree upon what the Holy Spirit teaches unless first that pagan becomes a Christian and then the Holy Spirit begins to teach him or her personally through scripture and other Christians what to do.
So in general when a pagan comes into a Christian Church, and sees and hears, things of Christ, things of God, that pagan will either be interested and stay or leave. Just like a good book is easy to open and close if you like it or not.
Jessica
_____________________________
And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
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RE: Pagan influences on Christianity - 1/12/2008 5:39:46 AM
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kingdust
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quote:
This means Christians who meet in Jesus' name work together for His cause and agreement. Where again the pagan cannot agree upon what the Holy Spirit teaches unless first that pagan becomes a Christian and then the Holy Spirit begins to teach him or her personally through scripture and other Christians what to do.
When a pagan becomes a Christian nominally, I bet you that his/her 100% pagan quality will influence his/her Christianity.
That is what happened when the Christianity became 'universal' by the order of an emperor of Rome.
Even when a pagan became a true born again Christian, he/she is still with the pagan quality that is not done being killed.
The old self is the bottom line of this pagan influence on Christianity.
If you don't see this old self as pagan, you are missing the true Christianity, and may be attracted to other religions or go back to OT religion like Galatians, or like the OP.
_____________________________
I am an English as Second Language person and love corrections, kind or unkind, positive or negative, with love or without love, which I am grateful of. Just GIVE!
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