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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 4:24:40 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Anyone who Condemns others is not loving God....
If what you say is true, and it is NOT, then Jesus and Paul and Peter and James and John all did not love God.
To propagate a false gospel is to despise God who gave His Son so that eternal life may be found by grace through faith and to trample His blood under foot.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 4:28:39 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
The Apostle said that men, in the last days, would not tolerate Sound Doctrinal Admonition unto Good Fruits and Good Works as written; instead; distorting the Scriptures to their own destructions...
Which is exactly what people flocking to the lies of Smith, Young, and the false religion of the Mormons. Why... they even call themselves - what? - LATTER day saints, not old-time born again, but LATTER day with a form of religion but unlike the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
You cannot justify calling that false religion of God or having anything to do with God the Son, Jesus Christ.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 4:41:46 PM
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landabee
Posts: 2844
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Central Florida
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quote:
If you perceive that these things which I write are meaningless; then you have little faith in Scripture. For these things are from the Scripture. The worthless homily are those that endeavor to condemn others by what they think that they know or have learned.
That is offensive, presumptuous and in error. Do not question my understanding of scripture.
Understanding scripture is through study of context.
Context.
quote:
Which is exactly what people flocking to the lies of Smith, Young, and the false religion of the Mormons. Why... they even call themselves - what? - LATTER day saints, not old-time born again, but LATTER day with a form of religion but unlike the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
You cannot justify calling that false religion of God or having anything to do with God the Son, Jesus Christ.
Amen. Preach it, brother.
_____________________________
"Sound theology discourages ignorance instead of promoting it." ~ CourdeLeon
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 4:44:17 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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These are but sheep, is written. If you were so annointed in Christ, compared, you would not exhibit the same characteristics that the cults do in that you would agree with the Mormon and JH teachings that The God is different which is preached in the same Bible.
We are in the latter days. Its been 2000 years since Christ Came during His Earthly Walk and Curcifixion at Jerusalem. It is clear that Jesus said: no prophet killed outside of Jerusalem! Therefore, it is clear that Joseph died 'naturally', instead. LOL!!
Christ can and Will Justify Whomever He so Chooses. It is written that many of those trained in the law of Moses as leadership refused to enter The Kingdom of God while the prostitutes and tax collectors and all those they 'refused' to issue 'judgment' on entered instead! LOL!!
What knowledge do you have that God cannot laugh at? What Understanding do you have compared to knowing Christ and the Power of His Resurrection? I considered that knowledge is nothing, for Paul resolved himself to nothing but the Power of God in His Teachings!
These are the things written about Me. Are these things God to you? I tell you that they are nothing compared to 'knowing' God and having a 'relationship' with Him! Faith saves through Grace not knowledge. knowledge was gained at the fall of the tree in disobedience to The Word. Therefore, regained relationship is established in Christ Jesus. All power in Heaven and on earth is what Christ said, not necessarily all knowledge; per se.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
The Apostle said that men, in the last days, would not tolerate Sound Doctrinal Admonition unto Good Fruits and Good Works as written; instead; distorting the Scriptures to their own destructions...
Which is exactly what people flocking to the lies of Smith, Young, and the false religion of the Mormons. Why... they even call themselves - what? - LATTER day saints, not old-time born again, but LATTER day with a form of religion but unlike the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
You cannot justify calling that false religion of God or having anything to do with God the Son, Jesus Christ.
< Message edited by cybrjewls -- 7/28/2008 10:33:40 PM >
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 5:22:26 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Christ can and Will Justify Whomever He so Chooses...
But He WILL NOT contradict His own scriptures nor deny Himself. You can take that to the bank. And the whole of Mormonism and JWs contradict the redemption plan of God the Father by God the Son in the power of God the Holy Spirit.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 5:27:40 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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The Jesus Christ we believe in IS different from the Mormon Jesus. Our Jesus Christ is The Son Of God. He was born of a virgin from an immaculate conception. God did not have sex with Mary as the Mormons teach. Jesus Christ and Satan are NOT brothers, as the Mormons teach.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Greetings! When all the while, all of the cults exhibit this behavior, then why do some exhibit this behavior on this board saying the exact same things regarding Mormons? That the Jesus Christ that they believe in is different is to agree with The Mormons, instead, becoming cultic in our thinkings regarding others.
The "Sound Doctrine" taught by the Mormons is exactly what the Scriptures warn us will happen in the last days. Mormon doctrine is so full of holes, it's pathetic. However, one does not learn all this at first. One has to become fully immersed in the Mormon doctrine before one learns about much of the false teaching. Been there, done that, and got out as soon as it became apparent that Mormonism is not Christian. Burned our garments, burned our books, celebrated our Exodus up out of Egypt.
quote:
The Apostle said that men, in the last days, would not tolerate Sound Doctrinal Admonition unto Good Fruits and Good Works as written; instead; distorting the Scriptures to their own destructions. Jesus said why are you waiting around doing nothing and sent them, instead, to do Good Works for The Kingdom of God as written. Why would the ones who hide their light under bushes and their talents they choose to plant in the ground, instead of in the bank, expect to receive any other reward than that which their deeds show is appropriate? If a person will not work, they will not eat; and may not be granted the right to eat of the tree in the Garden of the New Earth. For the workers deserve their wages. One must not deny the ox some grain when working is written. How much more will Christ Repay 100 times for anything that was left to Work for The Kingdom of God. These, Jesus said, draw near with their mouths but do nothing to gain Honor with God. When did we see Jesus in jail with no food and sick is written. Prayer meetings would be excellent with fasting around the country right now; for Judgment seems evident in certain events.
Your rambling posts may snow some people, but don't try it on me. It ain't gonna work. And I'll do my best to help others to see the light and the Truth as I have in the past
-Dave
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 10:18:00 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hellohellohi
quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
BTW, where are you getting your information from?
From something interior -- no exterior source, which I assume you meant. "God of this world" sounds awfully local, so I am wondering if he is just a deputy or something.
To be honest, I am just not interested in being a god of some new universe or world. The question occurs to me, how could I be the finest, best god possible? Probably by granting them self-determinism and approaching them out of love. Is it necessary, though, for me to be delegated the task of granting them self-determinism? Why can't God go and be God of those other worlds too -- I think He's doing an awesome job!
Or, alternatively, I could imagine saying he is doing a poor job and I would rather leave this world than participate. What's the penalty, and why would I care about it?
Again I have no idea what you are talking about. What does this have to do with LDS doctrine?
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 10:28:19 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Your #1 Wrong - they do discourage reading and attending other churches. Maybe your ward is different, I dunno........
Your #2 These teachers were high ranking Mormons like I said. I don't think they were teaching wrong (at least in Mormon terms).
Your #3 Apology accepted.
I'm "trashing" the LDS faith because I (and many others) have discovered it to be non-Christian, and I'm really trying to be nice here so as to not offend you too deeply. It's not my intent to offend anyone, but I and other former Mormons need to spread the truth about the LDS church.
You're in my prayers,
-Dave
#1. You are wrong...My father was in the military and my husband was in the military...I have been in plenty of wards over my 40+ years. There was no discouragement what so ever. As a teenager I attended church with my friends and as an adult I have attended church with non-member family and friends. Maybe the ward you attended discouraged it.
#2 Being on a mission or a temple president doesn't neccessarily make one high ranking.
You mean spreading your truth about the LDS church. There are over 11 million members who would disagree with you.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 10:35:12 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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Thanx, I did not realize that Mormons do not believe in immaculate conception as written.
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
The Jesus Christ we believe in IS different from the Mormon Jesus. Our Jesus Christ is The Son Of God. He was born of a virgin from an immaculate conception. God did not have sex with Mary as the Mormons teach. Jesus Christ and Satan are NOT brothers, as the Mormons teach.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Greetings! When all the while, all of the cults exhibit this behavior, then why do some exhibit this behavior on this board saying the exact same things regarding Mormons? That the Jesus Christ that they believe in is different is to agree with The Mormons, instead, becoming cultic in our thinkings regarding others.
The "Sound Doctrine" taught by the Mormons is exactly what the Scriptures warn us will happen in the last days. Mormon doctrine is so full of holes, it's pathetic. However, one does not learn all this at first. One has to become fully immersed in the Mormon doctrine before one learns about much of the false teaching. Been there, done that, and got out as soon as it became apparent that Mormonism is not Christian. Burned our garments, burned our books, celebrated our Exodus up out of Egypt.
quote:
The Apostle said that men, in the last days, would not tolerate Sound Doctrinal Admonition unto Good Fruits and Good Works as written; instead; distorting the Scriptures to their own destructions. Jesus said why are you waiting around doing nothing and sent them, instead, to do Good Works for The Kingdom of God as written. Why would the ones who hide their light under bushes and their talents they choose to plant in the ground, instead of in the bank, expect to receive any other reward than that which their deeds show is appropriate? If a person will not work, they will not eat; and may not be granted the right to eat of the tree in the Garden of the New Earth. For the workers deserve their wages. One must not deny the ox some grain when working is written. How much more will Christ Repay 100 times for anything that was left to Work for The Kingdom of God. These, Jesus said, draw near with their mouths but do nothing to gain Honor with God. When did we see Jesus in jail with no food and sick is written. Prayer meetings would be excellent with fasting around the country right now; for Judgment seems evident in certain events.
Your rambling posts may snow some people, but don't try it on me. It ain't gonna work. And I'll do my best to help others to see the light and the Truth as I have in the past
-Dave
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 10:37:43 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
The Jesus Christ we believe in IS different from the Mormon Jesus. Our Jesus Christ is The Son Of God. He was born of a virgin from an immaculate conception. God did not have sex with Mary as the Mormons teach. -Dave
No Dave....Immaculate conception refers to Mary's conception not Jesus'.
Wrong again!! "God did not have sex with Mary as the Mormons teach" The Mormons do not teach this.
Exactly how long were you a Mormon??
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 10:38:32 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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Jesus said I condemn no one, I Judge only as I Hear. Jesus said not to condemn lest you too be condemned.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Anyone who Condemns others is not loving God....
If what you say is true, and it is NOT, then Jesus and Paul and Peter and James and John all did not love God.
To propagate a false gospel is to despise God who gave His Son so that eternal life may be found by grace through faith and to trample His blood under foot.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 10:42:21 PM
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landabee
Posts: 2844
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Central Florida
Status: offline
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quote:
You mean spreading your truth about the LDS church. There are over 11 million members who would disagree with you.
And whereas we may be incorrect with some of the finer points of mormonism (whether mormons visit other churches)... the 11 million you reference are gravely wrong in their misguided belief in HUGE doctrinal error and non-biblical lies.
Our truth is founded on nothing less than the true Christ and His ultimate completely saving sacrifice. Our blessing of salvation and eternity worshipping the True One is our joy. Our hope is in Him..... not how important we can become in the afterlife......or how powerful we can become.
We do not cling to the falsehood of godhood. We would be presumptuous and irreverent to do so.
Those are just some of the differences.
And FWIW......... I do know that some mormons do visit our churches. They are there to hone their craft and "cut their baby teeth" on some of our weaker brothers and sisters that are lacking in biblical study. So, on that point I agree.
_____________________________
"Sound theology discourages ignorance instead of promoting it." ~ CourdeLeon
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 10:42:58 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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I am glad that you are a prophet to know this! Where in Scripture is this written, though? If any person speaks they should speak as if God is speaking. If what you say does not come to pass at The Judgment Day, then you should stoned. LOL!!!
I believe that are circumstances and sets of facts ordered in the universe that seem contradictory, but they all come From The Truth; which is Jesus The Christ. All have sinned, and are justified freely by Christ's redemptive work on the Cross is written.
For God's redemptive Work of The Cross at Calvary was definitely denying Himself on His Own decision to suffer more than any other person. Anyone that does not deny themselves and take on the easy yoke cannot be a disciple of Jesus. Enlightenment comes through Christ's Gracious Offer in extending all who would believe, both bad and good the opportunity to enter The Kingdom of God. The Father Will sort it out later at The Judgment Day.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Christ can and Will Justify Whomever He so Chooses...
But He WILL NOT contradict His own scriptures nor deny Himself. You can take that to the bank. And the whole of Mormonism and JWs contradict the redemption plan of God the Father by God the Son in the power of God the Holy Spirit.
< Message edited by cybrjewls -- 7/28/2008 11:07:30 PM >
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 10:44:17 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Thanx, I did not realize that Mormons do not believe in immaculate conception as written.
Mormons believe in the virgin birth of Jesus. That His conception was a miracle..."For with God nothing shall be impossible" Luke 1:37 KJV
Immaculate Conception refers to Mary...this is not an LDS teaching.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 10:49:16 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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OK! She was found to be with child of The Holy Spirit of God. She was untouched, in the biblical sense, by any man. Also, The Priest of Jerusalem called Melchezidek was, in fact the 'preincarnate' Jesus; is my understanding as well. For it is also written how God spoke with Abraham directly concerning Soddom and Gammorah.
It was those to whom The Word of God came, that saw His Form and Heard His Voice as Jesus said. When someone is given revelation from God, it means that God has given that person a special Gift of The HOLY Spirit in order to reveal things for others and for the building up of The Body of Christ Jesus Our Lord and Savior. It is written that Elijah will come and restore all things for This is God's fulfillment of The Word Spoken Through Joel and others. And I will choose some of them, also, to be found among the priests of God Most High at the Martyrdom 5th seal decisions where among those who were found worthy of the Millennium Period Reign with Christ. Therefore, one must stand the test of the mark of the false prophet to come for 3 1/2 years or 42 months or 1260 days plus 30-75 days as written. (during which the 'raptura' event will occur.)
quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Thanx, I did not realize that Mormons do not believe in immaculate conception as written.
Mormons believe in the virgin birth of Jesus. That His conception was a miracle..."For with God nothing shall be impossible" Luke 1:37 KJV
Immaculate Conception refers to Mary...this is not an LDS teaching.
< Message edited by cybrjewls -- 7/28/2008 11:02:44 PM >
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 11:43:33 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
quote:
You mean spreading your truth about the LDS church. There are over 11 million members who would disagree with you.
And whereas we may be incorrect with some of the finer points of mormonism (whether mormons visit other churches)... the 11 million you reference are gravely wrong in their misguided belief in HUGE doctrinal error and non-biblical lies.
I agree you are incorrect in many of the finer points of Mormonism. Those 11 million don't believe they are wrong or misguided.
quote:
Our truth is founded on nothing less than the true Christ and His ultimate completely saving sacrifice. Our blessing of salvation and eternity worshipping the True One is our joy. Our hope is in Him..... not how important we can become in the afterlife......or how powerful we can become.
Agree with most of this...but "powerful" isn't the right word...it lacks humility. I believe in eternal progression. What do here in mortality will determine where we go in the next life...what exactly that is I don't know, but I do want to be a part of it.
quote:
We do not cling to the falsehood of godhood. We would be presumptuous and irreverent to do so.
OK
quote:
Those are just some of the differences.
And FWIW......... I do know that some mormons do visit our churches. They are there to hone their craft and "cut their baby teeth" on some of our weaker brothers and sisters that are lacking in biblical study. So, on that point I agree.
I have yet to meet a Christian who is lacking in biblical study.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/28/2008 11:48:49 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Also, The Priest of Jerusalem called Melchezidek was, in fact the 'preincarnate' Jesus; is my understanding as well. For it is also written how God spoke with Abraham directly concerning Soddom and Gammorah.
I'm confused..."The Priest of Jerusalem called Melchezidek was, in fact the 'preincarnate' Jesus;" Who teaches this???
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/29/2008 12:27:31 AM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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Greetings! It is written in Hebrews regarding how Jesus is High Priest Forever according to the order of Melchezidek. Which means that Melchezidek ordered it to be so; therefore it must have been Christ Jesus as well for Only The Father Could Order Such a Fulfillment Prophecy as thus who was indwelling the Son of Man directly. No one knows The Father except The Son, and no one knows The Son of Man except The Father; and those to whom HE chooses to reveal. For instance, the Desolation Decrees in revelation are By The Order of God Most High; himself; written for us to take warning ahead of time!
The Disciples did not recognize His ascended form from hades return to earth although their hearts were burning when He Spoke to them. The Romans and the Sanhedrin could not recognize Him for He could walk right through them if it Was The Father's Will.
Christ can take on any personal traits; for it is written: you have done this to Me, when you did it to someone else. Especially regarding those of The Holy Faith in Christ Jesus. Christ is One With The Father in Heaven as written and, therefore, OmniPresent ideas should Present themselves..... Where Christ is still present over hades in the parable of the rich man and lazarus as written and can be communcated with. I Will Be With You, even to the end of age..... until the 'raptura' event into The Millennium and able to carry in on through Armageddon on to The Great And Terrible Day of The Lord before The Judgment Seat of He Who Reigns Most Highly Exalted Above All.
quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Also, The Priest of Jerusalem called Melchezidek was, in fact the 'preincarnate' Jesus; is my understanding as well. For it is also written how God spoke with Abraham directly concerning Soddom and Gammorah.
I'm confused..."The Priest of Jerusalem called Melchezidek was, in fact the 'preincarnate' Jesus;" Who teaches this???
< Message edited by cybrjewls -- 7/29/2008 12:56:17 AM >
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/29/2008 9:10:14 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Jesus said I condemn no one, I Judge only as I Hear. Jesus said not to condemn lest you too be condemned.
If you believe that then you do not understand scripture or how to handle it, much less how teach it. Jesus clearly taught that we are to discern and expose the wicked and perverters of the Gospel. Nowhere does He tell us to accept those that change the Gospel of Grace purchased by His precious blood into a religion of works that replaces His redemption.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/29/2008 9:29:45 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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I disagree with you on all counts, as I also disagree with you on all counts in your previous response to me. Please don't have the audacity to attempt to tell me what I was taught. You weren't there. You don't know. Your experience may have been different from mine, I can't say. I do know that what I am posting is exactly that which happened to me and my family.
The Virgin Mary was not conceived immaculately, as you stated. Mary was the child of two normal human beings. Jesus was conceived immaculately.
Matthew 1:20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
(NIV)
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
The Jesus Christ we believe in IS different from the Mormon Jesus. Our Jesus Christ is The Son Of God. He was born of a virgin from an immaculate conception. God did not have sex with Mary as the Mormons teach. -Dave
No Dave....Immaculate conception refers to Mary's conception not Jesus'.
Wrong again!! "God did not have sex with Mary as the Mormons teach" The Mormons do not teach this.
Exactly how long were you a Mormon??
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/29/2008 10:13:24 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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The Mormon interpretation of the term "immaculate conception" and the Christian version is different. Christians do not believe that God had sex with Mary.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Thanx, I did not realize that Mormons do not believe in immaculate conception as written.
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
The Jesus Christ we believe in IS different from the Mormon Jesus. Our Jesus Christ is The Son Of God. He was born of a virgin from an immaculate conception. God did not have sex with Mary as the Mormons teach. Jesus Christ and Satan are NOT brothers, as the Mormons teach.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Greetings! When all the while, all of the cults exhibit this behavior, then why do some exhibit this behavior on this board saying the exact same things regarding Mormons? That the Jesus Christ that they believe in is different is to agree with The Mormons, instead, becoming cultic in our thinkings regarding others.
The "Sound Doctrine" taught by the Mormons is exactly what the Scriptures warn us will happen in the last days. Mormon doctrine is so full of holes, it's pathetic. However, one does not learn all this at first. One has to become fully immersed in the Mormon doctrine before one learns about much of the false teaching. Been there, done that, and got out as soon as it became apparent that Mormonism is not Christian. Burned our garments, burned our books, celebrated our Exodus up out of Egypt.
quote:
The Apostle said that men, in the last days, would not tolerate Sound Doctrinal Admonition unto Good Fruits and Good Works as written; instead; distorting the Scriptures to their own destructions. Jesus said why are you waiting around doing nothing and sent them, instead, to do Good Works for The Kingdom of God as written. Why would the ones who hide their light under bushes and their talents they choose to plant in the ground, instead of in the bank, expect to receive any other reward than that which their deeds show is appropriate? If a person will not work, they will not eat; and may not be granted the right to eat of the tree in the Garden of the New Earth. For the workers deserve their wages. One must not deny the ox some grain when working is written. How much more will Christ Repay 100 times for anything that was left to Work for The Kingdom of God. These, Jesus said, draw near with their mouths but do nothing to gain Honor with God. When did we see Jesus in jail with no food and sick is written. Prayer meetings would be excellent with fasting around the country right now; for Judgment seems evident in certain events.
Your rambling posts may snow some people, but don't try it on me. It ain't gonna work. And I'll do my best to help others to see the light and the Truth as I have in the past
-Dave
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/29/2008 10:46:32 AM
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crankius
Posts: 4470
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Here is a collection of helpful quotes on what mormonism teaches about the birth of Jesus. After they list the many quotes, they conclude:
quote:
You might ask, "How can Mormons say that Christ was born of a virgin when leaders have consistently described an act common to the reproductive process?" This is accomplished by changing the definition of the word virgin. Since Mormonism teaches Mary did not have sexual relations with a mortal man, but instead was impregnated by an immortal man, some Mormons feel that they can still use the phrase virgin birth. As Bruce McConkie said,
"For our present purposes, suffice it to say that our Lord was born of a virgin, which is fitting and proper, and also natural, since the Father of the Child was an immortal Being." (The Promised Messiah, p. 466; emphasis added)
"Our Lord is the only mortal person ever born to a virgin, because he is the only person who ever had an immortal Father." (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., p. 822; emphasis added)
"Mary was a virgin... until after the birth of our Lord. Then, for the first time, she was known by Joseph, her husband; and other children, both sons and daughters, were then born to her. (Matt. 13:55-56; Mark 6:3; Gal. 1:19.) She conceived and brought forth her Firstborn Son while yet a virgin because the Father of that child was an immortal personage." (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, vol. 1, p. 82; emphasis added)
As president Joseph F. Smith said,
"Mary, the virgin girl, who had never known mortal man, was his mother." (Box Elder Stake conference of December 20, 1914; emphasis added)
When one considers that the LDS Church also teaches that every human born on earth is a literal child of God, the above quotes become even more blasphemous. Mormon leaders have maintained that all humans, Mary included, were born first in a spiritual state known as the pre-existence. If Mormon leaders are telling the truth when they say that God physically impregnated Mary, then we have no other recourse than to assume the Jesus of Mormonism was created by way of an incestuous relationship.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/29/2008 11:45:19 AM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
I disagree with you on all counts, as I also disagree with you on all counts in your previous response to me. Please don't have the audacity to attempt to tell me what I was taught. You weren't there. You don't know. Your experience may have been different from mine, I can't say. I do know that what I am posting is exactly that which happened to me and my family.
The Virgin Mary was not conceived immaculately, as you stated. Mary was the child of two normal human beings. Jesus was conceived immaculately.
Matthew 1:20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
(NIV)
-Dave
Apparently we have had different experiences and teachings. I do know that Utah Mormons tend to be a bit full of themselves, but they couldn't be that off doctrine with you. This is where we agree to disagree.
Look up Immaculate Conception. Mary was the child of 2 normal human beings but her conception is concidered immaculate...free of sin...in order to have Jesus.
Immacute conception is not in LDS doctrine so it is not taught...the virgin birth of Jesus is taught.
< Message edited by harvesthoney -- 7/29/2008 11:52:27 AM >
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/29/2008 11:57:28 AM
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Piff.
Posts: 35
Joined: 7/24/2008
Status: offline
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just out of curiousity, how many of these ideas and notions discussed in this thread are actually from the mouth (err, fingers) or a practicing Mormon?
essentially, is this a thread full of orthodox Christians discussing Mormon doctrines?
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/29/2008 11:59:14 AM
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crankius
Posts: 4470
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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But mormons teach that God actually came and was with Mary in the fleshly sense. They call it a virgin birth because (in their view) she was with God, and not a mortal man.
As usual in mormonism, they are using the same words as Christianity but with different meanings. Their virgin birth is not the Biblical definition of virgin birth.
And BTW, the mormons out west do not attend Christian services. They are discouraged to do so. The only ones I have ever heard of doing so were missionaries who agreed to attend a Christian service in exchange for the Christian going to one of their services.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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