Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (Full Version)

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fallenstar -> Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/6/2007 9:39:20 PM)

Hello All, and God Bless-
I always read and hear about Bible stories where a person loves God, praises God, and would do anything to please the Lord Jesus Christ. But what about people who are angry at God? Of course, God wants everyone to believe he is there, and believe IN him, but there is a difference between the two. If you believe that he is there, you do not worship him and love him, so that would make you Agnostic. If you believe IN Jesus Christ, you love and worship him. And then there are people who don't even believe he is up there.
I have always wanted to ask another Christian if God would rather you hate him, and are aware of his existence, or totally without a doubt think he is'nt there. I don't own a bible or go to church, nor do I have any Christian friends. I have never ever seen this question pop up in a chatroom before, or a blog or even a website! I have been dying to know, would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all?



ta_mosquito -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/6/2007 9:51:41 PM)

I think either way He's sad.

I can't speak for God in this, since there is no verse that says anything about it (for those who would use the hot/cold/lukewarm verse in Revelation, I think that's a misinterpretation). But whether someone doesn't believe He exists at all or believes He exists but is "mad" at him, that person is still out of kilter with Him and has the same final destination.

And since God knows the end from the beginning, I don't think He's looking at someone saying, "Oh! Well, he believes I exist but hates Me. Maybe he'll get over his anger and turn to Me." He already knows whether we'll turn to Him or not.

Hope this makes sense. [&:]



ManimalX -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/7/2007 1:22:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fallenstar

would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all?


ta_mosquito answered well. Either of these options will end in eternal separation from God. I would suggest reading Romans 1. Even though you don't own a Bible, you can read it through the Bible Study Tools link on crosswalk.com, or go to a site like blueletterbible.org.

I notice that in your introduction you say, "God Bless" and that you refer to "another Christian", yet you state that, "I don't own a bible or go to church, nor do I have any Christian friends".

May I ask what exactly you believe in?

Also, My name is Matthew Hebbert, and I love you because you are fearfully and wonderfully created in God's image. There, now you have a Christian friend [:)]



EStan -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/7/2007 6:42:44 PM)

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (John 6:29)

To "believe on him" doesn't simply mean to acknowledge Jesus' existence - the Greek word here is "pisteuō", meaning to put your trust in.

Just believing that God exists isn't going to save anybody. I hope this helps.



rahabrec -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/9/2007 6:55:04 AM)

This is a good question. And timely for me since I've been writing a song about this very subject.

I can't say that I know anyone who believes in God and yet hates him (although I guess that would apply to Satan and his followers) but I know a number of people who believe in God and are angry with him. I've had friends who are Christians express that "they're not talking with God right now".

I think anger is a valid feeling. Many children get angry with their parents. Especially when they don't agree with or understand how they're being treated. Jonah expressed anger when God didn't destroy the Ninevites like he had promised (Jonah:4). Job demanded an audience with God because he felt he was being judged unfairly. David cried out "My God, my God why have you forsaken me"

Personally, I think it saddens God when his children refuse to talk with him. Christ came that we might have life and that life consists of a "Relationship" with the Father. And, thinking like a father, I would rather my child express his anger to me rather than simply not talk to me.

I found another blogger who has a great take on the subject

Here's a direct link to the article on Nate Botstian's Blog



Mannamuncher -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/9/2007 10:15:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fallenstar
I have been dying to know, would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all?

Is there a difference ?



Sammy_S -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/9/2007 6:42:01 PM)

quote:

I think either way He's sad.


God is not sad at the wicked he is angry.

God is a just judge,
And God is angry with the wicked every day

Psalms 7:11

God rathers man repents than to face his wrath.



SD456 -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/10/2007 12:52:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy_S

quote:

I think either way He's sad.


God is not sad at the wicked he is angry.

God is a just judge,
And God is angry with the wicked every day

Psalms 7:11

God rathers man repents than to face his wrath.


No, I don't believe God is up there angrily looking down at unbelievers. "For God showed His love for us that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us." I think He loves us and is grieved that mankind is separated from Him. One day there will be wrath, but now He is showing mercy.

I agree with the other posters. Both make God sad.



1love1God1way -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/10/2007 3:46:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456

One day there will be wrath, but now He is showing mercy.



Tell that to Ananias and Sapphira [sm=dance.gif]



ManimalX -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/10/2007 11:48:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456

No, I don't believe God is up there angrily looking down at unbelievers.


Then you aren't seeing a complete picture of God in His holiness, nor understanding exactly how bad sin is. Try reading the scriptures provided throughout this thread again and really think about what they are saying.

Once you come to realize just how wicked we all are, you will have a much deeper appreciation of God's sacrifice to restore us to Himself.

"But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little" - Luke 7:47

Realize how much you have been forgiven!

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." - Romans 5:8



Sammy_S -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/14/2007 7:49:59 PM)

SD456
quote:

No, I don't believe God is up there angrily looking down at unbelievers. "For God showed His love for us that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us." I think He loves us and is grieved that mankind is separated from Him. One day there will be wrath, but now He is showing mercy.

I agree with the other posters. Both make God sad.


You don't have to believe that God is angrily looking down at unbelievers,it doesn't change the fat that he does.Read this:

God is a just judge,
And God is angry with the wicked every day.
If he does not turn back,
He will sharpen His sword;
He bends His bow and makes it ready.
He also prepares for Himself instruments of death;
He makes His arrows into fiery shafts.

Psalms 7:11-13

God loves(benevolently towards unbelievers),but he also hates;

The boastful shall not stand in Your sight;
You hate all workers of iniquity.

Psalms 5:5


ManimalX
quote:

Realize how much you have been forgiven!


With all respect,how exactly do you that he is forgiven?We are not in a position to tell that that he is forgiven or not.Our job is to speak truth and Let the Lord give the person his assurance of salvation.



SD456 -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/14/2007 8:07:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ManimalX

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456

No, I don't believe God is up there angrily looking down at unbelievers.


Then you aren't seeing a complete picture of God in His holiness, nor understanding exactly how bad sin is. Try reading the scriptures provided throughout this thread again and really think about what they are saying.

Once you come to realize just how wicked we all are, you will have a much deeper appreciation of God's sacrifice to restore us to Himself.

"But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little" - Luke 7:47

Realize how much you have been forgiven!

"But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." - Romans 5:8


I understand God's sacrifice. It was done out of love. period. I simply don't agree with your thought that God is up there angrily looking down at unbelievers. When it says 'God demonstrates His love for, in that WHILE we were yet sinners," seems to me to be speaking about God's great love for us when we were sinners. Not God's great anger toward us. Why would anyone come to a God who hates them? I don't think so.

I never did agree with that old sermon "Sinners in the hand of an angry God" theology. That's not who God is.

But this is off topic, so I'll quit. I believe that God is saddened by both.



Sammy_S -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/14/2007 11:19:40 PM)

quote:

I simply don't agree with your thought that God is up there angrily looking down at unbelievers.


You are not disagreeing with us, you are disagreeing with scripture.

God is a just judge,
And God is angry with the wicked every day.
If he does not turn back,
He will sharpen His sword;
He bends His bow and makes it ready.
He also prepares for Himself instruments of death;
He makes His arrows into fiery shafts.

Psalms 7:11-13

quote:

When it says 'God demonstrates His love for, in that WHILE we were yet sinners," seems to me to be speaking about God's great love for us when we were sinners.


Ys you are somewhat correct,but you have to understand that God's love towards unbelievers are benevolent.

quote:

Not God's great anger toward us. Why would anyone come to a God who hates them? I don't think so.


Well that's the thing.The bible says that no one comes to the Lord.

There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God

Romans 3:11

quote:

never did agree with that old sermon "Sinners in the hand of an angry God" theology. That's not who God is.


Maybe that is not who your God is,but it surely is the God of the Bible.



Sammy_S -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/14/2007 11:21:51 PM)

BTW,all unbelievers hate God.



ManimalX -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/15/2007 12:17:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy_S

ManimalX
quote:

Realize how much you have been forgiven!


With all respect,how exactly do you that he is forgiven?We are not in a position to tell that that he is forgiven or not.Our job is to speak truth and Let the Lord give the person his assurance of salvation.


Good post, Sammy. However, I don't understand where you are coming from on this last part. Maybe I didn't communicate what I was trying to say in a concise manner.

I assumed that either SD456 is a believer by the nature of his post.

My reference of Luke 7:47 (But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little) was used because Jesus is addressing the issue of a person who doesn't believe sin is that bad and doesn't realize the depth of the forgiveness extended to them. If a person doesn't understand how far fallen they are, then they won't appreciate exactly how forgiven they are and therefore will not love as one who knows that he has been plucked from the jaws of eternal hell by sweet Jesus!

quote:

SD456
I never did agree with that old sermon "Sinners in the hand of an angry God" theology. That's not who God is.


It saddens me to see this attitude so prevalent among believers. We have really lost a lot of understanding in modern church culture with the focus on the ooey-gooey and 'mountain top' teaching while neglecting the wrath, justice, and holiness of God. SD456, you are really missing a large portion of who God is when you dismiss wrath and justice so flippantly. He has made these parts of Himself known through Scripture, portions of which have been shared in this thread. You can choose not to believe it, but you would be putting yourself in opposition to God's revealed Word. Think about this.



Sammy_S -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/15/2007 12:30:26 AM)

quote:

Good post, Sammy. However, I don't understand where you are coming from on this last part. Maybe I didn't communicate what I was trying to say in a concise manner.

I assumed that either SD456 is a believer by the nature of his post.

My reference of Luke 7:47 (But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little) was used because Jesus is addressing the issue of a person who doesn't believe sin is that bad and doesn't realize the depth of the forgiveness extended to them. If a person doesn't understand how far fallen they are, then they won't appreciate exactly how forgiven they are and therefore will not love as one who knows that he has been plucked from the jaws of eternal hell by sweet Jesus!


I understand what you are saying but I am just uncomfortable telling one that he or she saved/forgiven.I am not questioning him either even though it leaves me "confused" as to whom he is saved from if he does not believe in the wrath of God?If one does not know of the wrath of God then how is he truly saved?

quote:

It saddens me to see this attitude so prevalent among believers. We have really lost a lot of understanding in modern church culture with the focus on the ooey-gooey and 'mountain top' teaching while neglecting the wrath, justice, and holiness of God. SD456, you are really missing a large portion of who God is when you dismiss wrath and justice so flippantly. He has made these parts of Himself known through Scripture, portions of which have been shared in this thread. You can choose not to believe it, but you would be putting yourself in opposition to God's revealed Word. Think about this.


I hate to sound harsh but that is not an attitude found among believers but it is found in church goers.It is called 'American Christianity"



ManimalX -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/15/2007 6:23:17 PM)

quote:

it leaves me "confused" as to whom he is saved from if he does not believe in the wrath of God?


Very good point!

quote:

I hate to sound harsh but that is not an attitude found among believers but it is found in church goers.It is called 'American Christianity"


I would disagree with this. One can be a born-again saint and still hold wrong doctrine. Much of the Pauline epistles were specifically written to to the saints to confront wrong thinking and false doctrine.

That being said, I do understand what you are getting at. There are two types of people in the world today: the unbeliever and the believer. Unfortunately, what we see in America is largely the make-believer, which is just a more dangerous form of unbeliever.

This is why I don't believe even for one second any polls I see such as the common, "Christians have as high a divorce rate as non-Christians", or, "80% of Americans are Christian". Among real Christians, the divorce rate is low, and I would estimate that not even 25% of Americans are regenerated, born-again, Christ following Christians. One only need to look at the heretical anti-Christian "churches" performing homosexual marriages, allowing homosexual leaders, not speaking out against abortion, preaching a false Jesus (if they preach Jesus at all), and a myriad of other Satanically inspired positions.



Sammy_S -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/15/2007 11:21:49 PM)

quote:

I would disagree with this. One can be a born-again saint and still hold wrong doctrine. Much of the Pauline epistles were specifically written to to the saints to confront wrong thinking and false doctrine.


I agree that one can be born again and still hold wrong doctrine on certain issies but the very foundations?I would disagree with that if that is what you are saying.How can one be saved and reject the very words of what scriptures says?Unless that person has "seriously" fallen I cannot see that being a possibility.

quote:

is why I don't believe even for one second any polls I see such as the common, "Christians have as high a divorce rate as non-Christians", or, "80% of Americans are Christian". Among real Christians, the divorce rate is low, and I would estimate that not even 25% of Americans are regenerated, born-again, Christ following Christians. One only need to look at the heretical anti-Christian "churches" performing homosexual marriages, allowing homosexual leaders, not speaking out against abortion, preaching a false Jesus (if they preach Jesus at all), and a myriad of other Satanically inspired positions.


So So true!Another thing that really really gets to me is when I hear that The Church is not doing it's job or is failing.The church is not sinless but it is beautiful and a light to the world.Church goers do not make up The Church.

Take a look at Paul Washer,he is a great preacher.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?SpeakerOnly=true&currSection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Paul%5EWasher



SD456 -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/16/2007 12:14:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy_S

quote:

I simply don't agree with your thought that God is up there angrily looking down at unbelievers.


You are not disagreeing with us, you are disagreeing with scripture.

God is a just judge,
And God is angry with the wicked every day.
If he does not turn back,
He will sharpen His sword;
He bends His bow and makes it ready.
He also prepares for Himself instruments of death;
He makes His arrows into fiery shafts.

Psalms 7:11-13



quote:

Not God's great anger toward us. Why would anyone come to a God who hates them? I don't think so.


quote:

Well that's the thing.The bible says that no one comes to the Lord.

There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God


You're correct there. It says that because of God's great love HE has reached down to earth to save us and make a way for us. HE is the one who offers the free gift of salvation to us. It is that very love that leads us to repentance and into a relationship with Him - not His anger and hatred for us.

quote:


quote:

never did agree with that old sermon "Sinners in the hand of an angry God" theology. That's not who God is.


Maybe that is not who your God is,but it surely is the God of the Bible.


No, I still disagree. If you've ever read that sermon it portrays a petty, raging God who indifferently holds sinners in His hand, thinking of them all as little worms, or bugs that should be thrown into the fire (even using that terminology). That is WAY off base. Out of all of creation God chose humans as the ones to pour His love on. Not angels, not any other more perfect beings of some kind. But humans. We are the object of His great affection and He sent His only Son to die because of this great love - NOT because of His great hate toward us filthy little bugs that should be squashed beneath His raging thumb.

That is not the heart of God. I can show you just as many verses, if not more, of God's HUGE love toward us.



Sammy_S -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/16/2007 1:45:06 AM)

quote:

No, I still disagree. If you've ever read that sermon it portrays a petty, raging God who indifferently holds sinners in His hand, thinking of them all as little worms, or bugs that should be thrown into the fire (even using that terminology). That is WAY off base. Out of all of creation God chose humans as the ones to pour His love on. Not angels, not any other more perfect beings of some kind. But humans. We are the object of His great affection and He sent His only Son to die because of this great love - NOT because of His great hate toward us filthy little bugs that should be squashed beneath His raging thumb.


So you are perfectly fine with disagreeing with scripture?So just how would you explain "And God is angry with the wicked every day"?

You mentioned a lot things I strongly disagree with in your post but that comment is a head-scratcher.


Joel Osteen and Touch By An Angel are the wrong place to take our theology from.



Sammy_S -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/16/2007 1:48:01 AM)

BTW,if you do not know the wrath of God you have no idea about the true love of god.Man will never understand these two things but we can grasp it to a point while on earth.



ManimalX -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/16/2007 3:01:18 PM)

SD456, let me point out one more thing for you to consider. You correctly point out that God had great love for us when we were sinners. What I would ask you to consider is this: how is God supposed to react towards those to whom He has extended the greatest gift of all, only to have them spit in His face and reject Him? Again, His mercy toward an unbeliever is not endless.



EStan -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/16/2007 10:57:48 PM)

quote:

Again, His mercy toward an unbeliever is not endless.


Indeed. Peter quotes from Proverbs when he rightly says, "If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" (1 Peter 4:18 ESV)



propitiated4 -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/27/2007 10:12:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fallenstar

Hello All, and God Bless-
I always read and hear about Bible stories where a person loves God, praises God, and would do anything to please the Lord Jesus Christ. But what about people who are angry at God? Of course, God wants everyone to believe he is there, and believe IN him, but there is a difference between the two. If you believe that he is there, you do not worship him and love him, so that would make you Agnostic. If you believe IN Jesus Christ, you love and worship him. And then there are people who don't even believe he is up there.
I have always wanted to ask another Christian if God would rather you hate him, and are aware of his existence, or totally without a doubt think he is'nt there. I don't own a bible or go to church, nor do I have any Christian friends. I have never ever seen this question pop up in a chatroom before, or a blog or even a website! I have been dying to know, would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all?



Not believing and hating God go hand-in-hand. One who doesn't believe also is hostile towards God, he/she is at emnity with God, which means they hate God.

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

enmity - a feeling or condition of hostility; hatred; ill will; animosity; antagonism. This is the way we feel toward God before we are saved.



agapetos -> RE: Would God rather you hate him or not believe in him at all? (12/27/2007 10:30:51 PM)

quote:

If you believe that he is there, you do not worship him and love him, so that would make you Agnostic.
Actually, agnostic means that you don't know whether God exists or not. If you believe that He exists, but don't worship Him, love Him or speak with Him, I'd imagine the correct term would be apathetic.

quote:

Not believing and hating God go hand-in-hand. One who doesn't believe also is hostile towards God, he/she is at emnity with God, which means they hate God.
Well, not really. You can have a deep belief that God exists but you can still hate Him (perhaps because you feel that He is to blame for some pain in your life). You can also be an athiest. Now technically, that would be against God, but it doesn't mean that you hate God, simply that you don't believe in Him. There are a lot of things I do and don't believe in, but I don't hate them because I don't believe in them.

quote:

But what about people who are angry at God?
There's nothing wrong with being angry at God, it's staying angry for the same thing that presents the problem. Parents will get angry at their children, a couple will get angry at each other, children will get angry at their parents etc. God wants us to tell Him how we feel, even if it is anger.

Would God rather we hate Him or not believe He exists? I can only say, from a human point of view that when someone hates something they are displaying a huge emotion. When they don't believe in something, when they are apathetic and don't care, there is no emotion. I can't help thinking of the book 'Who moved the stone?' which was written by a guy who was an athiest and set out to prove that Christ wasn't the Son of God. Didn't quite turn out as expected because the guy couldn't prove it and became a Christian.



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