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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/6/2008 9:49:03 AM
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gengwall
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quote:
ORIGINAL: schupfNoodle
I Cor 12
22 In fact, some parts of the body that seem weakest and least important are actually the most necessary. 23 And the parts we regard as less honorable are those we clothe with the greatest care. So we carefully protect those parts that should not be seen, 24 while the more honorable parts do not require this special care. So God has put the body together such that extra honor and care are given to those parts that have less dignity. 25 This makes for harmony among the members, so that all the members care for each other. 26 If one part suffers, all the parts suffer with it, and if one part is honored, all the parts are glad.
An interesting translation - which is it? My NASB says this
quote:
22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24 whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25 so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
At any rate, I hardly think that a metaphorical discussion of spiritual gifts counts as "law" against nakedness.
< Message edited by gengwall -- 5/6/2008 10:08:26 AM >
_____________________________
DOGBERRY on posters:
They have committed false report;
moreover, they have spoken untruths;
secondarily, they are slanders;
sixth and lastly, they have belied;
thirdly, they have verified unjust things;
and, to conclude, they are lying knaves
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/6/2008 10:00:58 AM
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gengwall
Posts: 213
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
How strange. I find his examination of the scriptural coverage of the naked human body (which is extensive, BTW) to be thorough, objective, and intriguing. I think if we focus more on what the bible actually says about the human body and nakedness, and less on what the culture (both in and outside of the church) says about it, we could have a more enlightening dialog.
Why is that? Is it because there is more of a fascination with the naked human body than with the character of God? Now before you go saying that I am trying to put words in your mouth or that I don't know your heart, please consider that I am asking a couple of questions. Questions that take an honest reflection. I don't see this type of dialogue to be overly enlightening. It's a matter of right and wrong. So far, those who have come here advocating nudism as an alternative Christian lifestyle are really promoting idolitry as the lifestyle becomes more important than God of ones neighbor.
I can accept that as a possibility, but not as an inevitability. You seem to assume their one and only focus is "a fascination with the naked human body", in fact one that exceeds their "fascination...with the character of God"*. How can you be so sure that is always, or even predominantly, the case? Isn't it simply possible that they desire to reside in a more natural, and frankly, in many respects, more modest, environment where the pretensions and titilations of clothing don't interfere with their activities and relationships?
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quote:
It is discussing semi-private to private group settings where nudity is acceptable or preferred.
Again, what's the true motivation for wanting to be in a group such as this?
I think the motivations have been well documented, although it appears you reject out of hand their legitimacy. Still, that doesn't make them untrue. At any rate, I do not presume to know their motivations intimately (I am not a naturist myself), but I do trust their accounting of them far more than anyone outside of that community's opinions about them, especially when their (the naturists) actions support the testimony they give and outside opinions seem to draw only on the one-sided perspective those outsiders have regarding the naked human body.
I do agree with you on one point: it is a matter of right and wrong. I continue to challenge anyone to demonstrate in scripture where the type of environment and behavior we are discussing is inherently and universally sinful, not to mention provide an explanation of the uncondemned (and even commanded) public nakedness found in the bible. You are correct that it would be sinful if the motivations and fascinations are as you contend they always are. But I see no reason to believe in such narrow and unproven conclusions, especially when scripture says nothing to support those conclusions or even suggest they are reasonable**. So the real question is not whether a group environment where nakedness is acceptable is right or wrong (it could be either), but whether an unyielding, unwarranted, uninformed, unsubstantiated, unscriptural, and ungracious view of that environment is right or wrong.
*Naturists would in fact argue the exact opposite. They would tell you they have a nearly complete lack of fascination with the naked human body in its general state. They would say that their environment, like that presented in the medical field, contains a dispassionate, unsexualized view of the naked human body. They would assertain that the human body is very modest when not "clothed" in an air of sexuality. In that light, they would, accuse those of us who are clothed with a far greater "idolatry" of the human body due to our curiosity at what is behind the clothing and the sexualized nature of clothing and behavior present in our contemporary society. I have worked in the medical profession and know this desensitized view of the body, as well as having struggled with my own purity greatly in a world of clothed people. Frankly, from my own experience, I see far more truth and credibility in their argument.
**What I am getting at here is that the bible contains neither a general condemnation of nudity, a negative stereotype about people who go naked, nor any correction regarding public and semi-private environments where nakedness exists as a cultural reality.
< Message edited by gengwall -- 5/6/2008 3:32:08 PM >
_____________________________
DOGBERRY on posters:
They have committed false report;
moreover, they have spoken untruths;
secondarily, they are slanders;
sixth and lastly, they have belied;
thirdly, they have verified unjust things;
and, to conclude, they are lying knaves
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/6/2008 1:35:34 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 275
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Gengwall: Are you a naturist?
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(Some tattoo designs look nice, though...)
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/6/2008 1:53:49 PM
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gengwall
Posts: 213
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From: MN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faroukfarouk
Gengwall: Are you a naturist?
I am not, not because I disagree with the philosophy but because I know my own struggles with purity and know I could not probably handle it (not that it is easier out here in the clothed world). Frankly, I live in MN so opportunities are limited (although we are primarily talking about temporary residences at resorts, etc.) Even if I held the proper lack of fascination with the naked (female) human body, the prospect doesn't really do much for me. In reality, I have no vested interest in either promoting or condemning such groups. My approach is pretty much "live and let live". Honestly, that is the approach of naturists as well. They aren't promoting mass nudity in the general population. But if their motives and attitudes (and eyes and minds) are sincere (which we can't judge anyway), there is no reason, especially no biblical reason, to deny them their freedom of association.
< Message edited by gengwall -- 5/6/2008 9:46:52 PM >
_____________________________
DOGBERRY on posters:
They have committed false report;
moreover, they have spoken untruths;
secondarily, they are slanders;
sixth and lastly, they have belied;
thirdly, they have verified unjust things;
and, to conclude, they are lying knaves
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/6/2008 5:42:27 PM
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SonClad
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I am a naturist of 20 years and have no problem going to such resorts/beaches from a moral standpoint as long as people are behaving themselves (this is true of both naturist/textile beaches). It is true that one gets desensitized to the nude body as being stimulating when it is de-sexualized.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/6/2008 9:11:39 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 275
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gengwall
quote:
ORIGINAL: faroukfarouk
Gengwall: Are you a naturist?
I am not, not because I disagree with the phylosophy but because I know my own struggles with purity and know I could not probably handle it (not that it is easier out here in the clothed world). Frankly, I live in MN so opportunities are limited (although we are primarily talking about temporary residences at resorts, etc.) Even if I held the proper lack of fascination with the naked (female) human body, the prospect doesn't really do much for me. In reality, I have no vested interest in either promoting or condemning such groups. My approach is pretty much "live and let live". Honestly, that is the approach of naturists as well. They aren't promoting mass nudity in the general population. But if their motives and attitudes (and eyes and minds) are sincere (which we can't judge anyway), there is no reason, especially no biblical reason, to deny them their freedom of association.
Okay, thnx. Just wondered, anyhow.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(Some tattoo designs look nice, though...)
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/6/2008 11:52:06 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1078
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quote:
Isn't it simply possible that they desire to reside in a more natural, and frankly, in many respects, more modest, environment where the pretensions and titilations of clothing don't interfere with their activities and relationships?
No.
quote:
You seem to assume their one and only focus is "a fascination with the naked human body", in fact one that exceeds their "fascination...with the character of God"*. How can you be so sure that is always, or even predominantly, the case?
Years of interviewing and spending time with people and discussing the recesses of the mind. As Solomon say in Eccliastes, there is nothing new under the sun. It seems that we (people) have this propensity to play with the verbiage of things until we come up with a definition we like that makes sin seem like it is no lonbger sin.
quote:
So the real question is not whether a group environment where nakedness is acceptable is right or wrong (it could be either), but whether an unyielding, unwarranted, uninformed, unsubstantiated, unscriptural, and ungracious view of that environment is right or wrong.
Hmm????
quote:
*Naturists would in fact argue the exact opposite. They would tell you they have a nearly complete lack of fascination with the naked human body in its general state.
So they say. But, what drew them to it intially? Seems that continued exposure would necissitate the control of bodliy functions and non verbal expressions. But, the initial attraction and the heart that led a person down that path does not change. As we get older and our libido decreases, the private thoughts so not change. While they may decrease in frequency, they don't go away. I have yet to be convinced that there is truly any person who has no erotic thought life that involves someone other than their spouse.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, but we call it a dog, it's still a duck.
quote:
**What I am getting at here is that the bible contains neither a general condemnation of nudity, a negative stereotype about people who go naked, nor any correction regarding public and semi-private environments where nakedness exists as a cultural reality.
Then why the discussion? Why all the hype? Seems that some people have such a strong interest in an activity that their ultimate goal is to recruit others to join. How does this glorify Christ?
_____________________________
You can't strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
A. Lincoln
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/7/2008 6:25:10 PM
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faroukfarouk
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You see also that over the years what constitutes nude/naked or semi-, has changed, I guess. Yesterday my wife and I were at a museum where there was a guy's swimsuit, and it covered the upper part of the torso.
Nowadays, a lady who wears a bikini isn't regarded as naked at all. I wear swimmng shorts; my wife wears a tankini.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(Some tattoo designs look nice, though...)
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/7/2008 6:37:02 PM
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NewYork74
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Too much temptation for me. I dont want to be in places where Im more likely to lust. And I do think many nudist are exhibitionists, who like sexual attention. Plus I dont really want to be nude in front of strangers. I dont like it.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/7/2008 6:41:22 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 275
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NewYork74
Too much temptation for me. I dont want to be in places where Im more likely to lust. And I do think many nudist are exhibitionists, who like sexual attention. Plus I dont really want to be nude in front of strangers. I dont like it.
I think naturism is nudity.
But a bikini? no.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(Some tattoo designs look nice, though...)
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/7/2008 6:55:48 PM
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SonClad
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It's interesting to read some comments here that are not only devoid of experience in the topic at hand, but which also seem to argue against what God intially proclaimed to be "very good" and in favor of shameful attitudes towards God's image. I also find it interesting how some automatically equate nudity with lust - as though clothing will eliminate (or even decrease) a sinful attitude which comes from the heart. Taken to the extreme logical conclusion, this line of thinking would have us all dressing as the muslims - from head to foot and covering every bit of skin. Less skin equals less sin is fallacious reasoning.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/7/2008 7:00:47 PM
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faroukfarouk
Posts: 275
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonClad
It's interesting to read some comments here that are not only devoid of experience in the topic at hand, but which also seem to argue against what God intially proclaimed to be "very good" and in favor of shameful attitudes towards God's image. I also find it interesting how some automatically equate nudity with lust - as though clothing will eliminate (or even decrease) a sinful attitude which comes from the heart. Taken to the extreme logical conclusion, this line of thinking would have us all dressing as the muslims - from head to foot and covering every bit of skin. Less skin equals less sin is fallacious reasoning.
I think we have to make a difference between nakedness before and after the Fall, when sin entered in. It alters the perspective considerably.
_____________________________
Trust the Bible.
Trust the Lord.
Don't trust the appearance of things.
(Some tattoo designs look nice, though...)
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/7/2008 7:07:46 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 25500
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonClad
I am a naturist of 20 years and have no problem going to such resorts/beaches from a moral standpoint as long as people are behaving themselves (this is true of both naturist/textile beaches). It is true that one gets desensitized to the nude body as being stimulating when it is de-sexualized. This is not a healthy outlook. I certainly wouldn't want to be married to someone who was desensitized to the stimulations of a nude body.
So . . . on one hand, there are people are are desensitized to naked bodies . . . and on the other hand, there are people who are nudists who are also living a lifestyle of porn. In fact, the person that I've alluded to earlier in this thread . . . I had that very conversation with him because he claimed he was desensitized to naked bodies. That certainly didn't endear me to the possibility of spending my life with him any more than his admittance of practicing pornography did. Either way, either extreme, the whole thing (nudism) is just entirely too messed up . . . and I am basing my opinion on someone who has admitted to being a nudist since he was a teenager (several decades). The more I found out about this person, the more repulsive I found his entire lifestyle.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/7/2008 7:10:19 PM
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SonClad
Posts: 37
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faroukfarouk
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonClad
It's interesting to read some comments here that are not only devoid of experience in the topic at hand, but which also seem to argue against what God intially proclaimed to be "very good" and in favor of shameful attitudes towards God's image. I also find it interesting how some automatically equate nudity with lust - as though clothing will eliminate (or even decrease) a sinful attitude which comes from the heart. Taken to the extreme logical conclusion, this line of thinking would have us all dressing as the muslims - from head to foot and covering every bit of skin. Less skin equals less sin is fallacious reasoning.
I think we have to make a difference between nakedness before and after the Fall, when sin entered in. It alters the perspective considerably.
So, what you're saying (correct me if I'm misreading) is that the naked body is now sinful itself?
A followup question would be whether we need to distinguish nakedness before the cross and afterwards - when we are considered new creatures and blameless before God.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/7/2008 7:23:56 PM
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SonClad
Posts: 37
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonClad
I am a naturist of 20 years and have no problem going to such resorts/beaches from a moral standpoint as long as people are behaving themselves (this is true of both naturist/textile beaches). It is true that one gets desensitized to the nude body as being stimulating when it is de-sexualized. This is not a healthy outlook. I certainly wouldn't want to be married to someone who was desensitized to the stimulations of a nude body.
So . . . on one hand, there are people are are desensitized to naked bodies . . . and on the other hand, there are people who are nudists who are also living a lifestyle of porn. In fact, the person that I've alluded to earlier in this thread . . . I had that very conversation with him because he claimed he was desensitized to naked bodies. That certainly didn't endear me to the possibility of spending my life with him any more than his admittance of practicing pornography did. Either way, either extreme, the whole thing (nudism) is just entirely too messed up . . . and I am basing my opinion on someone who has admitted to being a nudist since he was a teenager (several decades). The more I found out about this person, the more repulsive I found his entire lifestyle.
So, in one breath you're saying it is unhealthy to be desensitized to the simple nude body being sexually stimulating and in the next breath you seem to be saying just the opposite - that you'd prefer someone who is sexually stimulated by just seeing a simple nude body (e.g. porn - which I also find offensive). If I haven't misread your comments - *that* seems to be unhealthy (and confused) in my opinion.
I can't speak for all naturists of course, but I haven't found your acquaintence to be representative of most naturists that I know. I'm sure there are a few odd ones in every crowd. My experience has been that naturists tend to frown on those who fit your friend's profile as it destroys the family-friendly atmosphere that many people hold dear.
< Message edited by SonClad -- 5/7/2008 7:32:48 PM >
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/7/2008 7:45:35 PM
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SonClad
Posts: 37
Joined: 10/17/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonClad
So, in one breath you're saying it is unhealthy to be desensitized to the simple nude body being sexually stimulating and in the next breath you seem to be saying just the opposite - that you'd prefer someone who is sexually stimulated by just seeing a simple nude body (e.g. porn - which I also find offensive) No I didn't say nor imply that . . . AND you might want to start reading my posts better before you start telling me that I prefer someone who is into porn.
I had several in-depth conversations (of which I initiated because I was becoming alarmed with what I was finding out about him) with this man about what his views were regarding a man and a wife. If a man is going to be desensitized to his wife's naked body; then I certainly don't want to be that wife. If a man is going to be going out of his way to look at naked women other than me, then I certainly don't want to be that wife.
Nudism messes with a person's sexuality.
I don't want to be anyone's wife who doesn't have a healthy sexuality from either end of the spectrum.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonClad
My experience has been that naturists tend to frown on those who fit your friend's profile as it destroys the family-friendly atmosphere that many people hold dear.
Your comments are loaded with a bunch of incorrect assumptions and inuendos (e.g., the wife of a naturist is somehow less treasured sexually speaking by her husband or their sexual relationship is something less than ideal; a naturist is "going out of his way to look at naked women" other his spouse; all naturists are as messed up as your friend in their views - ridiculous and offensive accusations!). You are clearly confusing simple nudity (i.e., naturism) with sexuality, as can be seen by your 'nudism messes with people's sexuality' comment. This is simply not true.
quote:
If a man is going to be desensitized to his wife's naked body; then I certainly don't want to be that wife. If a man is going to be going out of his way to look at naked women other than me, then I certainly don't want to be that wife. I didn't say or imply that - you might want to take your own advice and start reading my posts better.
I'd say those who are easily stimulated by simple nudity are more likely to be into porn, whereas those who have a wholesome view of the human body as being made in the image of God and not automatically equating nude with lewd are less likely - this is just common sense.
< Message edited by SonClad -- 5/7/2008 8:11:56 PM >
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/7/2008 8:04:08 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 25500
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I'm not confusing anything.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/7/2008 8:09:36 PM
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SonClad
Posts: 37
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
I'm not confusing anything.
Really? Is being nude in a non-sexual social setting lewd (such as merely swimming nude in a pool or lake with others for example)? If 'no', why? If 'yes', why?
< Message edited by SonClad -- 5/7/2008 8:18:55 PM >
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/7/2008 9:16:25 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 6665
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonClad
It's interesting to read some comments here that are not only devoid of experience in the topic at hand, but which also seem to argue against what God intially proclaimed to be "very good" and in favor of shameful attitudes towards God's image. I also find it interesting how some automatically equate nudity with lust - as though clothing will eliminate (or even decrease) a sinful attitude which comes from the heart. Taken to the extreme logical conclusion, this line of thinking would have us all dressing as the muslims - from head to foot and covering every bit of skin. Less skin equals less sin is fallacious reasoning.
God proclaimed his Creation "very good". That is not the same thing as saying it is "very good" to be a nudist.
And Shar-Mar has made some excellent points. I'm sorry you can't see it (or refuse to see it). Let me break it down for you in another way:
On the one hand, you dismiss the sexual aspect of a nude body. On the other hand, you seem to think that a man can look upon his wife's naked form and desire her like lust is some kind of switch you can just turn off and on at will and with no temptation. You can't have it both ways.
And again, we live in a fallen world where things that God designed for good have been warped and twisted by sin. Whether you like it or not, that fact changes things. Sex and desire is one of those things. If you claim that you are free from this temptation and free from this fallen state, you sir, are sadly mistaken.
_____________________________
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Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/8/2008 3:57:08 AM
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NewYork74
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The people here that argue for nudity, I dont see why you want to be nude so bad? Sunlight is bad for your privates anyway. Anyone who wants to be nude in public, something is wrong with them. And can you guarantee me that everyone at the nude resort will be absolutely pure of lusting thoughts, including me? Why do you tempt people to be nude with each other? I didnt read one post where someone said "I like to be nude with people" Are you ashamed to say it? You should at least state clearly where you stand, before you make your arguments.
< Message edited by NewYork74 -- 5/8/2008 9:20:35 AM >
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/8/2008 11:14:04 AM
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gengwall
Posts: 213
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From: MN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
On the one hand, you dismiss the sexual aspect of a nude body. On the other hand, you seem to think that a man can look upon his wife's naked form and desire her like lust is some kind of switch you can just turn off and on at will and with no temptation. You can't have it both ways.
Nor is he attempting to. He is not dismissing the sexual aspects of the nude body at all. He is saying that naturists are able to put those sexual aspects in their proper place. The simple truth is that a person can desensitize themself to the sexualized aspects of the human body in given contexts. If they couldn't none of us would dare go to the doctor ever. The true error here is in the over sexualization and obssession with the sexualization of the human body by those opposed to naturism. You people who can't possibly see how anyone could be in a non-sexual social setting with others who happen to be naked are blind to that possibility only because you yourselves couldn't handle that situation. But you are not everyman. Just because you can't handle it doesn't mean someone else can't.
quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
And again, we live in a fallen world where things that God designed for good have been warped and twisted by sin. Whether you like it or not, that fact changes things. Sex and desire is one of those things. If you claim that you are free from this temptation and free from this fallen state, you sir, are sadly mistaken.
How can you possibly claim to know what temptations another person is or is not susceptible to? Are you now God, who knows the heart of every man? Do you really think that our sexuality is so uniformly manifested that you can proclaim that every situation affects every person exactly the same way?
_____________________________
DOGBERRY on posters:
They have committed false report;
moreover, they have spoken untruths;
secondarily, they are slanders;
sixth and lastly, they have belied;
thirdly, they have verified unjust things;
and, to conclude, they are lying knaves
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/8/2008 11:22:15 AM
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NewYork74
Posts: 26
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faroukfarouk
quote:
ORIGINAL: NewYork74
The people here that argue for nudity, I dont see why you want to be nude so bad? Sunlight is bad for your privates anyway. Anyone who wants to be nude in public, something is wrong with them. And can you guarantee me that everyone at the nude resort will be absolutely pure of lusting thoughts, including me? Why do you tempt people to be nude with each other? I didnt read one post where someone said "I like to be nude with people" Are you ashamed to say it? You should at least state clearly where you stand, before you make your arguments.
Anyway, I'm not arguing in favor of nudity. I wouldn't identify with naturism.
I do think that swimwear has developed so much that what might have been regarded as nudity many years ago no longer is.
For example, a man's swimming shorts today often cover a lot more than a woman's typical lower triangle.
Also, the fact is that some bikinis cover a lot more than some stringy one piece suits.
Right? (I guess a lot of redefinition has taken place, without arguing for naturism.)
Yes I agree 100%, everything is decaying along with our moral culture. Im not too crazy about swimwear at regular beaches. Its only the local laws that keep a lot of people from showing up completely naked on the regular beaches. Its hard to find modest people any more. Actually now that summer is here, I see women with outfits that would have been considered perverse before. And we have 15 year old girls on the cover of magazines with just a sheet thrown over their chest. I dont think that is naturism.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/8/2008 11:24:03 AM
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gengwall
Posts: 213
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NewYork74
The people here that argue for nudity, I dont see why you want to be nude so bad?
There are a variety of reasons, all non-sexual, which have been detailed throughout this thread
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Sunlight is bad for your privates anyway.
?????
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Anyone who wants to be nude in public, something is wrong with them. First of all, as has been pointed out, we are not talking about walking down the street naked. We are talking about semi-private and private group settings.
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And can you guarantee me that everyone at the nude resort will be absolutely pure of lusting thoughts, including me?
No. Can you make that guarentee for the people in clothed settings? Considering the degree to which naturists "police their own", the reduced ability an infiltrator has to be inconspicuous, and the simple fact there are far easier ways to look at naked bodies than trying to infiltrate a naturist community, it is far less likely they will get an infiltrator in their midst. Frankly, given the statistics about lust and porn in the church, I would be far more worried about the wandering lascivious eyes and minds in your typical Sunday morning church service.
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Why do you tempt people to be nude with each other? I don't believe he has asked any of you to join him. I certainly am not tempted to be nude with anyone other than my wife.
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I didnt read one post where someone said "I like to be nude with people" Are you ashamed to say it?
The point isn't that they "like to be nude with people". The point is that they like to be nude, period. You won't get a naturist to say this because that isn't their motivation.
< Message edited by gengwall -- 5/8/2008 11:30:19 AM >
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DOGBERRY on posters:
They have committed false report;
moreover, they have spoken untruths;
secondarily, they are slanders;
sixth and lastly, they have belied;
thirdly, they have verified unjust things;
and, to conclude, they are lying knaves
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/8/2008 11:26:54 AM
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gengwall
Posts: 213
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NewYork74
Yes I agree 100%, everything is decaying along with our moral culture. Im not too crazy about swimwear at regular beaches. Its only the local laws that keep a lot of people from showing up completely naked on the regular beaches. Its hard to find modest people any more. Actually now that summer is here, I see women with outfits that would have been considered perverse before. And we have 15 year old girls on the cover of magazines with just a sheet thrown over their chest. I dont think that is naturism.
You are quite correct. That is in fact the antithesis of naturism.
_____________________________
DOGBERRY on posters:
They have committed false report;
moreover, they have spoken untruths;
secondarily, they are slanders;
sixth and lastly, they have belied;
thirdly, they have verified unjust things;
and, to conclude, they are lying knaves
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