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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 10:31:58 AM
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1dblthnk02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
And why aren't we clear cutting forests along our border with Canada which is twice as long and twice as undefended to make sure the illegals aren't crossing from the north? Is it because our northern neighbors are mostly European and white?
Actually, Canada is becoming an issue because they encourage and invite Mexican workers.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 11:02:34 AM
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tracydolls
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quote:
The wall the East Germans buit was more to keep people in than out...
And if we build this fence and need to get out? how will we?
_____________________________
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 11:22:54 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 1651
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quote:
Every country has borders; the U.S. is the only one that I know of that is building a wall to keep people out. It reminds me of Berlin in the '60s.
I would then have to say that you knowledge is extremely limited. I have been to other countries, and many not only have walls, but full demilitarized zones with land mines. In other countries they will kill those trying to cross into their boarders.
As others have pointed out, the Berlin wall was built to keep people in, and no one on the outside wanted in. It was far more like a prison, and they would kill those who tried to escape.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 12:15:37 PM
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mapachito13
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"When an alien resides with you in your land, do not molest him. You shall trest the alien who resides with you no differently than the natives born among you; have the same love for him as for yourself; for you too were once aliens in the land of Egypt. I, the Lord, am your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
God's Word is very explicit in how we are to treat aliens. Or should we pick and choose what we are to follow? Just the convenient, non-expensive part?
BTW, it is interesting to note that Leviticus echoes the same words that Jesus said in Matthew 19:19 & 22:39, Mark 12:31 and Luke 10:27 about loving your neighbor as yourself. Who acts as a neighbor? "'The one who treated him with compassion.' Jesus said to him, "Then go and do the same.'"
Jesus will judge us how we treat our "least brothers". (Matthew 25:31-46) and one item specifically mentioned is "I was a stranger and you welcomed me," Matthew 25:35ff
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 12:47:04 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 1651
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From: California
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quote:
"When an alien resides with you in your land, do not molest him. You shall trest the alien who resides with you no differently than the natives born among you; have the same love for him as for yourself; for you too were once aliens in the land of Egypt. I, the Lord, am your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
God's Word is very explicit in how we are to treat aliens. Or should we pick and choose what we are to follow? Just the convenient, non-expensive part?
I think that for many there would not be an issue if the aliens among us were really treated no differently than those born among us, but the problem is that right now they are not. While those who come here legally are treated similarly to those born here, those who come here illegally are given benefits without having any obligation to participate in our society, what most of us would like to see is that all immigrants have the same rights AND RESPONSIBILITIES as those born here, and this is not going to happen until coming here legally is the more the norm, and breaking our laws to get here is the exception.
The abuses that now happen would be eliminated if those who immigrated here chose to do so legally because they would have so many more options available to address issues of abuse. There are many who would like to see the issue of illegal immigration addressed BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE TREATED EQUALLY, and our current system sets up an environment that breads abuse. It's not about closing our boarder, it is about protecting our boarder from those who choose to break our laws. Any real solution must also expand opportunities for legal immigration, and almost every proposal I have seen includes an expansion of legal immigration; it not simply a "close our boarders" proposition.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 12:49:50 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2611
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
The wall the East Germans buit was more to keep people in than out...
And if we build this fence and need to get out? how will we?
Does the place where you live that has walls/fences also have doors and even windows that would allow you to exit or enter?
I believe there are places already in place where people LEGALLY pass thourgh the border...
John
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 12:55:04 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2611
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
"When an alien resides with you in your land, do not molest him. You shall trest the alien who resides with you no differently than the natives born among you; have the same love for him as for yourself; for you too were once aliens in the land of Egypt. I, the Lord, am your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
God's Word is very explicit in how we are to treat aliens. Or should we pick and choose what we are to follow? Just the convenient, non-expensive part?
Given that God is about order and lawfulness I doubt your view of Leviticus 19:33-34 would extend to those who entered into the country illegally, nor does it nullify the fact that borders are biblical as you were shown...
quote:
BTW, it is interesting to note that Leviticus echoes the same words that Jesus said in Matthew 19:19 & 22:39, Mark 12:31 and Luke 10:27 about loving your neighbor as yourself. Who acts as a neighbor? "'The one who treated him with compassion.' Jesus said to him, "Then go and do the same.'"
Jesus will judge us how we treat our "least brothers". (Matthew 25:31-46) and one item specifically mentioned is "I was a stranger and you welcomed me," Matthew 25:35ff
There is immigration policy in place... Strangers are welcomed and there is a process in place... It's not self-serve... Remember God is the God of order, not chaos...
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 4/29/2008 1:01:30 PM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 1:05:19 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1163
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
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quote:
Does the place where you live that has walls/fences also have doors and even windows that would allow you to exit or enter?
I believe there are places already in place where people LEGALLY pass thourgh the border...
Say a another Katrina hits the US side where the fence is built, will people stand in line to get out of the legal way?
I'm not saying people should break laws, no. But I think sometimes racism gets mixed in with what we should do. And no I don't think every person is a racist, being a recovering one myself. My mothers last name sounds hispanic, she is portuguese and french canadian, I live next door to some hispanics that have the SAME last name, how will we tell, do we kick down doors to find illegals? I heard there are 12 million? That's a lot of doors!!
How do you tell people not to find work, that's all we holler, and then when a segment does it, no wait not you, you taking our jobs. when I heard that some hispanics are picking cotton, I was like they are truly looking for work. Have you ever picked cotton, that is hard work, and no pay.
_____________________________
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 1:43:35 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1535
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
"When an alien resides with you in your land, do not molest him. You shall trest the alien who resides with you no differently than the natives born among you; have the same love for him as for yourself; for you too were once aliens in the land of Egypt. I, the Lord, am your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
God's Word is very explicit in how we are to treat aliens. Or should we pick and choose what we are to follow? Just the convenient, non-expensive part?
I think that for many there would not be an issue if the aliens among us were really treated no differently than those born among us, but the problem is that right now they are not. While those who come here legally are treated similarly to those born here, those who come here illegally are given benefits without having any obligation to participate in our society, what most of us would like to see is that all immigrants have the same rights AND RESPONSIBILITIES as those born here, and this is not going to happen until coming here legally is the more the norm, and breaking our laws to get here is the exception.
The abuses that now happen would be eliminated if those who immigrated here chose to do so legally because they would have so many more options available to address issues of abuse. There are many who would like to see the issue of illegal immigration addressed BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE TREATED EQUALLY, and our current system sets up an environment that breads abuse. It's not about closing our boarder, it is about protecting our boarder from those who choose to break our laws. Any real solution must also expand opportunities for legal immigration, and almost every proposal I have seen includes an expansion of legal immigration; it not simply a "close our boarders" proposition.
I do agree that any real solution must expand opportunities for legal immigration. But the quotas are unrealistic and procedures that are involved in doing it the legal way are too confusing and cumbersome; not to mention redundant. Anyone who has dealt with the INS can tell you that.
Closing the borders, though, is for people living in Fantasyland.
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 2:41:14 PM
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TomTurn
Posts: 758
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quote:
Closing the borders, though, is for people living in Fantasyland
And you continue to harp on something that no one of any degree of intelligence advocates.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 3:08:49 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 637
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
I would then have to say that you knowledge is extremely limited. I have been to other countries, and many not only have walls, but full demilitarized zones with land mines.
How many are building new walls right now, this day?
quote:
As others have pointed out, the Berlin wall was built to keep people in, and no one on the outside wanted in. It was far more like a prison, and they would kill those who tried to escape.
I said that it reminded me of Berlin, not that it was the exact same thing.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 3:15:25 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1535
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
quote:
Closing the borders, though, is for people living in Fantasyland
And you continue to harp on something that no one of any degree of intelligence advocates.
Well a lot of people think that if enforcement efforts are stepped up then the problem will be solved. And, if you believe that, then, Tinkerbell is real!
This country has been blessed by God like no other but that will change the more selfish and arrogant we become. Immigration laws do not reflect the reality of the amount of people that are coming here drawn by our freedoms and opportunity. The sooner and easier they can get into the system; the sooner more people will be "paying their fair share" which I find is the most common complaint against these people.
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 3:18:56 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2611
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Then show me a quote (not pertaining to only one country, Israel) that the Bible says explicitly something about secure borders or immigration laws. Romans 13 doesn't count because it talks about respecting authority, not borders. Leviticus talks about the alien which is a person who is not residing in the country of one's citizenship. The word alien does not differentiate between legal and illegal and the Bible doesn't either.
I am responding here because the other thread is about the pledge to the flag.... If you continue to cross post there on this subject I will ignore it...
Romans 13 is in regards to God ordaining the civil government and as much as you will not like it, Romans 13 comes into play here in regards to order, which is why God ordained the civil governments...
The verses in Leviticus talks about the treatment of those living in a foreign country... Those who do so are to abide by the laws of that country in so far as they do not cross God's. Until you can produce something biblical that strikes down the immigration laws of the United States you have nothing. The laws regarding immigration are there in respect to order. There is a process in place regarding immigration and those people who circumvent the law and process are not following the law.
As well in previous posts I shot down your attempt to make the world one giant nation. It's quite biblically evident that God establishes nations and borders do exist. The onus is on you to show that controlling ones borders is sinful…
John
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 3:22:28 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2611
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Say a another Katrina hits the US side where the fence is built, will people stand in line to get out of the legal way?
Are you serious?
John
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 3:32:19 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 637
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
What difference does this make? Either a wall is present, or it is not. A wall built 100 years ago is no better or worse than a wall built tomorrow.
I disagree. We are supposed to be of a more enlightened mindset here in the 21st Century than the mindset of the 19th Century.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 3:37:45 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1535
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The verses in Leviticus talks about the treatment of those living in a foreign country...
Is that why it says "When an alien resides with you in YOUR land"? LEV. 19:33
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 3:39:35 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1163
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
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quote:
Are you serious?
Was Katrina serious?
quote:
The laws regarding immigration are there in respect to order.
Let's change the laws.
< Message edited by tracydolls -- 4/29/2008 3:45:41 PM >
_____________________________
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 3:40:36 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4613
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The verses in Leviticus talks about the treatment of those living in a foreign country...
Is that why it says "When an alien resides with you in YOUR land"? LEV. 19:33
I am so glad that passage does not say "Illegal" aluen.
Legal aliens are welcome, crooks are not.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 5:54:21 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2611
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The verses in Leviticus talks about the treatment of those living in a foreign country...
Is that why it says "When an alien resides with you in YOUR land"? LEV. 19:33
Yes, the alien is residing in a foreign country... That's what makes them aliens...
John
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 5:57:19 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2611
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Was Katrina serious?
Not the point... You need to connect the dots to how a border wall and or fence would hinder evacuations. The simple mention of Katrina doesn't make a lot of sense...
quote:
quote:
The laws regarding immigration are there in respect to order.
Let's change the laws.
To what? Self serve? Let's just hope that most of China doesn't want to move in...
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 4/29/2008 6:05:07 PM >
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 6:02:16 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2611
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
What difference does this make? Either a wall is present, or it is not. A wall built 100 years ago is no better or worse than a wall built tomorrow.
I disagree. We are supposed to be of a more enlightened mindset here in the 21st Century than the mindset of the 19th Century.
There is nothing new under the son...
John
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 7:57:18 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 637
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
There is nothing new under the son...
Rom.12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Eph.4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 8:32:10 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2611
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
There is nothing new under the son...
Rom.12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Eph.4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
You said... I disagree. We are supposed to be of a more enlightened mindset here in the 21st Century than the mindset of the 19th Century.
I posted...There is nothing new under the son...
To which you post verses regarding the change man goes through regarding regeneration? Which is the same today as it was the day Paul penned those verses...
Do you see that your comment and the verses you posted have nothing in common?
John
Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 9:59:28 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 637
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Do you see that your comment and the verses you posted have nothing in common?
No, not really. I thought that you were insinuating that there are no new mindsets in Christianity ("nothing new under the Son"), whereas I showed bible verses that seem to suggest otherwise.
I suppose that I could have misunderstood you, and misunderstood scripture as well for that matter. I freely admit that I am not one to preach the bible. I was just trying to be pithy . . .
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