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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2008 6:55:32 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HHV5
Again, what does a House resolution have anything to do with people seeking revenge?
Not everyone is looking for a House resolution....
quote:
Why isn't a government-issued apology conducive to reconciliation? You make wild assumptions that people are going to demand more and more. Do you have any evidence that issuing an apology will cause a mass calling for checks?
Human nature for one, and the fact that the populace believes that money is the cure and the normal means for making things right...
quote:
Once we have established a color-blind society, have reflected on and acknowledged the past, and have made sure posterity will never face racial inequality, then it will be done with.
That's actually more of a debate about the state of fallen man than a race issue...
quote:
Ignoring the issue and telling people to forget about it leads to nothing but resentment
So does dwelling on it to the point where someone not of color who hasn't owned anyone or given a person of color a dirty look is no different than Master Johnson...
John
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2008 8:10:39 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 403
Joined: 6/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HHV5
Once we have established a color-blind society, have reflected on and acknowledged the past, and have made sure posterity will never face racial inequality, then it will be done with. Ignoring the issue and telling people to forget about it leads to nothing but resentment.
You just described Heaven.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2008 8:33:40 PM
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lexie
Posts: 3145
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
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quote:
I propose all Europeans fgo back to Europe, all africans back to africa, and leave the native here to hisself.
Then are what are you going to do Tracy? Is half of you going to Europe and the other half Africa? I thought your mother is white. I'm curious as to how your feeings about race, the US and Africa are reconciled with how your mother looks. Just because Americans may see you as black, does not mean you have to deny your mother the part of her that is in you.
It's sad to watch people feel that they need to define themselves based on what other people define them as. I hope that my daughter is proud of both cultures she comes from. I hope she expresses them both, and if she chooses to express one more than the other, then that is ok. But if she chooses to ignore or show distate for one, then I would be angry.
My husband, while we were dating, was worried about how I would handle things if she came home from school one day upset that someone had called her a hateful, racial slur (which does still happen because some people are still ignorant.) I said that I won't know what to do, but you know what? No matter how much hate she sees out in the world she will walk through the door to home, see a black man and a white woman who love each other, who love their children and who love Jesus Christ. And that is all she needs to form her opinions of herself and others on.
_____________________________
I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2008 9:07:51 PM
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HHV5
Posts: 159
Joined: 7/20/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: HHV5
Again, what does a House resolution have anything to do with people seeking revenge?
Not everyone is looking for a House resolution....
That's a moot point. He made a claim that a House resolution should not pass and is pointless because people will seek revenge anyways. Do you only apologize if you know for certain that the other person will forgive you? Or do you do it anyways because you're sincerely penitent? How does one know what the reaction will be?
quote:
Why isn't a government-issued apology conducive to reconciliation? You make wild assumptions that people are going to demand more and more. Do you have any evidence that issuing an apology will cause a mass calling for checks?
Human nature for one, and the fact that the populace believes that money is the cure and the normal means for making things right...
Well, aren't you the ever-so-percipient arbiter of human nature! I said evidence, not speculation.
quote:
Once we have established a color-blind society, have reflected on and acknowledged the past, and have made sure posterity will never face racial inequality, then it will be done with.
That's actually more of a debate about the state of fallen man than a race issue...
Any issue can be about the state of fallen man.
quote:
Ignoring the issue and telling people to forget about it leads to nothing but resentment
So does dwelling on it to the point where someone not of color who hasn't owned anyone or given a person of color a dirty look is no different than Master Johnson...
A government-issued apology is meant to foster reconciliation, not assign blame to living white people. All it takes is the acknowledgment that past wrongs still have a profound impact today - not just slavery but also the idea that someone is a sub-human because of skin color - and a commitment to do what is possible to get rid of racism.
John
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2008 9:15:24 PM
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HHV5
Posts: 159
Joined: 7/20/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
quote:
ORIGINAL: HHV5
Once we have established a color-blind society, have reflected on and acknowledged the past, and have made sure posterity will never face racial inequality, then it will be done with. Ignoring the issue and telling people to forget about it leads to nothing but resentment.
You just described Heaven.
It's our duty as Christians to strive for what is good and what is perfect. Of course, we will never be perfect, but we have to do our best and try.
Race will be an issue as long as somewhere out there racism lurks.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2008 10:04:50 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 403
Joined: 6/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HHV5
quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
quote:
ORIGINAL: HHV5
Once we have established a color-blind society, have reflected on and acknowledged the past, and have made sure posterity will never face racial inequality, then it will be done with. Ignoring the issue and telling people to forget about it leads to nothing but resentment.
You just described Heaven.
It's our duty as Christians to strive for what is good and what is perfect. Of course, we will never be perfect, but we have to do our best and try.
Race will be an issue as long as somewhere out there racism lurks.
Well...I agree...you're preaching to the choir! If you're wanting to slap someone around for being a racist, you need to read posts other than mine. As far as I can tell, there is only one bigoted racist posting here and it's not me!
My point has been that these "so-called" apologies are worthless. It would be great had they happened a hundred years ago (or more). Then the actual participants would have still been around and apologies would mean something.
How about this...true story...I have a grandfather (a couple of "greats" back) that was murdered. It was a case of mistaken identity...my grandfather's brother owed someone a gambling debt, didn't pay it. This "someone" mistook my grandfather for the gambler and shot him.
Now...do I go and dig up this murderers great-great grandson/granddaughter, neice, nephew...maybe all of them...and demand that they apologize to ME??? That's just insanity!
Furthermore, if I was the sort to do that, there would have to be all kinds of other junk inside my heart. I think the desire for an "apology" would be merely the tip of the iceburg...just be an outward working of some major inward turmoil. Therefore, what good would an apology really do? Other than just keep bad feelings fresh and hurt feelings inflamed, nothing.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2008 10:11:45 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3520
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Fostering hatred certainly isn't going to end racism. Fact is, nothing will stop people from being stupid, not in a free society. All we can do is make the laws and enforce them as best as we can.
You mean something like this post by a Christian?
That...was hatred...???
quote:
Arent you a racist, Son?
quote:
I am white. Does that make me racist?
LOL. Well at least you did'nt lie.
I made no proclamation. How could I lie? I asked you a question...does being white make me a racist?
quote:
quote:
Which one? Can you prove without a doubt it was because of your skin color and nothing else? If you can prove that, why didn't you sue?
Who would I sue? The employee, the company the employee worked for, and the judge who presides, the attorney for me or for them?
I presume by this answer you believe everyone involved in the judicial system is racist? That as a black person you cannot find any kind of justice?
quote:
When you walk out the door from an interview and you hear" she's great I just wish she was'nt Black" you pretty much know.
If you've actually heard this, you should contact a lawyer immediately... for everyone's sake. Please do.
I would think if someone was under the persecution Tracy suggests that taking legal action would be called for.
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I can name something that showed America's racism, CRYSTAL CLEAR from present times, when all of us were alive.
KATRINA.
Ahh, the effects from the hatemonger, Jesse Jackson. You do know he uses black people...right? He is a hypocrit and a spoiled elitist and one of the biggest racist out there?
Sorry, work calls so I will read the other two pages when I get home.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2008 10:42:53 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3865
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lexie
quote:
I propose all Europeans fgo back to Europe, all africans back to africa, and leave the native here to hisself.
Then are what are you going to do Tracy? Is half of you going to Europe and the other half Africa? I thought your mother is white. I'm curious as to how your feeings about race, the US and Africa are reconciled with how your mother looks. Just because Americans may see you as black, does not mean you have to deny your mother the part of her that is in you.
It's sad to watch people feel that they need to define themselves based on what other people define them as. I hope that my daughter is proud of both cultures she comes from. I hope she expresses them both, and if she chooses to express one more than the other, then that is ok. But if she chooses to ignore or show distate for one, then I would be angry.
My husband, while we were dating, was worried about how I would handle things if she came home from school one day upset that someone had called her a hateful, racial slur (which does still happen because some people are still ignorant.) I said that I won't know what to do, but you know what? No matter how much hate she sees out in the world she will walk through the door to home, see a black man and a white woman who love each other, who love their children and who love Jesus Christ. And that is all she needs to form her opinions of herself and others on.
Five stars! 
_____________________________
Feel free to tell me what you think about this.
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2008 10:58:14 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HHV5
That's a moot point.
Only for those who believe this only about some self-severing folks in Washington DC issuing an apology....
quote:
He made a claim that a House resolution should not pass and is pointless because people will seek revenge anyways.
Take that up with him....
quote:
Do you only apologize if you know for certain that the other person will forgive you?
Who knows, people are seeking an apology for something that happened 200 years ago to other people from people who had nothing to do with it...
quote:
Or do you do it anyways because you're sincerely penitent?
How can one be sincerely penitent about something they didn't do...
quote:
Well, aren't you the ever-so-percipient arbiter of human nature! I said evidence, not speculation.
The entitlement mentality that is prevalent in our society is my evidence...
quote:
Any issue can be about the state of fallen man.
That settles that....
quote:
A government-issued apology....
The government-issued apology isn't the only thing going on here... Which seem to be your answer to everything....
Us white folks are not the only people living in denial...
John
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2008 11:09:49 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1804
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
As for Panthers vs. KKK...you won't find me defending the actions of renegade KKK members. That's a big difference...white people DO NOT defend hate-filled, sinful, criminal actions of other white people just because of their skin color.
LOL. LOL. Then how come we have had the KKK for over 100 years?
How come slavery went on for 300 years, only about 20% were ACTUAL slaveowners, the supporters. That's what percentage?
quote:
Then are what are you going to do Tracy? Is half of you going to Europe and the other half Africa? I thought your mother is white. I'm curious as to how your feeings about race, the US and Africa are reconciled with how your mother looks. Just because Americans may see you as black, does not mean you have to deny your mother the part of her that is in you.
Naw, I'm gonna stay right here in America until it blows up. I don't deny my mother, as evidenced by you know my mother is white.
quote:
It's sad to watch people feel that they need to define themselves based on what other people define them as. I hope that my daughter is proud of both cultures she comes from. I hope she expresses them both, and if she chooses to express one more than the other, then that is ok. But if she chooses to ignore or show distate for one, then I would be angry.
My mother is very honest about race in this country. She understands how some can be angry, she'll tell you in a minutre, she has seen things that made her angry. The unfairness. Living in a Black neighborhood most of her life, she has seen first hand blacks getting beat for no reason. She doesnt NEED to be convinced there is racism.
My mom would see 6 whites and 1 black and not go after the black person, she would understand that that would be deemed racist. She would try to correct her own first. As soon as she had to explain color to me, She said I'm sorry alot of my race has done terrible things to your race. So no I don't need or even reallyw ant the gov't to apologize I got her apology and that's always been good enough for me.
She understood that no matter what you call your child, in America,
she is a n word.
< Message edited by tracydolls -- 8/4/2008 11:46:27 PM >
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/4/2008 11:23:44 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 363
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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tracydolls,
From reading your posts it seems that you try to find racism behind everything. Why is that?
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2008 12:05:14 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1804
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Tracy, your posts are making me so sad for you.
So none of the other posts make you feel sad?
You don't feel sad when you think of race relations in this country?
You don't feel sad just thinking about what could be done to your children by a racist.
the history of this country doenst make you feel sad sometimes?
ok.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2008 12:09:15 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1180
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
So none of the other posts make you feel sad?
You don't feel sad when you think of race relations in this country?
You don't feel sad just thinking about what could be done to your children by a racist.
the history of this country doenst make you feel sad sometimes?
ok.
Tracy, you're better than that. They never said, "Tracy, you're the only thing that makes me sad ever." They did not imply it. The leap you made it completely illogical. Please, if you want your points to come across to others, think discerningly before you respond.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2008 12:16:31 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4377
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
tracydolls,
From reading your posts it seems that you try to find racism behind everything. Why is that?
It's easy...
John
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2008 12:20:02 AM
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Zhi
Posts: 1302
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: online
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quote:
My mom would see 6 whites and 1 black and not go after the black person, she would understand that that would be deemed racist. She would try to correct her own first. As soon as she had to explain color to me, She said I'm sorry alot of my race has done terrible things to your race. So no I don't need or even reallyw ant the gov't to apologize I got her apology and that's always been good enough for me.
Huh. If she's your mother, then shouldn't she be sorry that a lot of your race has done terrible things to your race?
You're half white, after all.
So, you might consider the fact that every time you say something terrible about europeans, every time you despise them, make evil plans for them, accuse them of being evil, accuse them of all being racist, etc...
... you're talking about yourself also.
Ask yourself if you feel responsible for all that evil. Ask yourself if you are racist by default. Ask yourself if you should suffer the penalties that you want to inflict on Europeans.
If you don't, why should I?
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2008 12:25:07 AM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 363
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Child4Jesus
tracydolls,
From reading your posts it seems that you try to find racism behind everything. Why is that?
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
It's easy...
John
What would be easy?
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2008 12:33:14 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1804
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Tracy, you're better than that. They never said, "Tracy, you're the only thing that makes me sad ever."
but I'm the ONLY one pointed out.
Speak the truth, it all makes me sad.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2008 12:38:44 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1804
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Huh. If she's your mother, then shouldn't she be sorry that a lot of your race has done terrible things to your race?
You're half white, after all. Maybe just seeing me she knows I'm not "half-white." My skin color is brown.
quote:
So, you might consider the fact that every time you say something terrible about europeans, every time you despise them, make evil plans for them, accuse them of being evil, accuse them of all being racist, etc...
... you're talking about yourself also.
i understand that I STRUGGLE with racism , do you understand that you do too?
quote:
Ask yourself if you feel responsible for all that evil. Ask yourself if you are racist by default. Ask yourself if you should suffer the penalties that you want to inflict on Europeans.
If you don't, why should I?
LOL. I make the white side apologize DAILY to the Black side.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2008 12:44:02 AM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6266
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
LOL. I make the white side apologize DAILY to the Black side.
Why not make blacks also apologize to whites? Wrong is wrong regardless of skin color.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2008 1:08:45 AM
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Zhi
Posts: 1302
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: online
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quote:
Maybe just seeing me she knows I'm not "half-white." My skin color is brown.
But you're still half European, those who you despise so much, regardless of what color your skin is.
quote:
i understand that I STRUGGLE with racism , do you understand that you do too?
Mmm, not really. Since it never really occurred to me from childhood that I should think less of someone simply because of their melanin levels, I've never found it particularly difficult to relate to people on the basis of who they are, rather than on what they look like.
quote:
LOL. I make the white side apologize DAILY to the Black side.
For what, exactly? What has your white side done, specifically, that you feel you must apologize for?
I'm part white and part native, and it's never occurred to me that the white part should apologize to the native part because the white part never really did anything to the native part. Except maybe introduce a higher propensity for sunburn, but hey, that's not really the white part's fault is it?
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2008 2:49:07 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1804
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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I make the Portuguese ( my maternal grandfather)part apologize first for slavery, the first to start the Trans Alantic Slave Trade.
I make the French-Canadian(my maternal granmother) side apologize for what they did to Natives in Canada. Then I apologize to them for the English part still doing them wrong in Canada.
I make them all apologize to the Nigerian Igbo(my paternal grandmother) in me for enslaving, raping, killing them.
I also make the Europeans apologize to the little bit of Choctaw Native I got. ( a ggranmother was 100%) I also make the Europeans read history alot. So many Europeans don't know simple history.
I make them all apologize to the Belgian Jew part my DNA came up with.
Then I make the Belgian part apologize for King Leopold and the Congo.
After we get done apologizing we sit down and eat soul food.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2008 2:54:29 AM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6266
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
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My idea of soul food is Bible reading.
I've never understood the term "soul food." What does it mean?
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2008 4:07:51 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1804
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Obama says he opposes slavery reparations, apology - (AP)
Obama says an apology would be appropriate but not particularly helpful in improving the lives of black Americans
This is what I truly don't understand , what does it HURT people to have the Gov't apologize?
Does money come out of pockets to cover the cost or something?
I truly would like to know why people are so against the apology.
Why not shoot for forgiveness and reconcilation?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 8/5/2008 6:29:22 AM
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scottiezsister
Posts: 51
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
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reading these posts is so draining...it's like a circle of accusations...can we do something constructive with this topic for a change???
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