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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/24/2008 7:34:20 PM
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bigboytenor
Posts: 633
Joined: 4/17/2007
From: Webb City, MO
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Biblefreak
It is a lewed behavior. I can't stand the fact that the world says "it's natural." Sex between married couples is "natural." Otherwise, if you do masturbait pray, ask forgiveness and repent.
I didn't know your name was the Holy Spirit, but thanks for clearing that up. Obviously you have the authority to call a sin, sin even though it's not clearly laid out in scripture. Wow, you're amazing. (Pardon all of the sarcasm, I couldn't resist, but seriously!)
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Jesus, What a Beautiful Name! ! !
Daryl
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/25/2008 9:06:08 PM
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Bill521
Posts: 11
Joined: 3/24/2008
From: Lawton, Oklahoma
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Hay guys,
I have been giving this subject some thought for quite awhile and have come to the conclusion that masterbation is not something the Lord would want us to do. Let me explain myself. First, Jesus said that if you lust after a woman, you might as well of had sex with her, because you did in your mind. The Lord also said it is sinful to commit adultry or fornication. When you masterbate, aren't you having sex with yourself? You are also depriving your wife of sexual pleasure and fulfillment. It isn't your body anymore. When you got married you and your wife became one flesh. Your responsibility is to please your wife, not yourself.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 3/28/2008 1:08:10 AM
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Anst
Posts: 10
Joined: 7/23/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elad02
To me this is like saying God didn't do a good enough job in saying what is sin. Although He didn't come right out and say it, surely He meant to. Isn't that putting words in God's mouth? If God didn't say it is a sin, then to say otherwise is reading your own beliefs into it.
I am definitely not implying that God's Word is vague or misleading on the issue. What I am saying is that on principle (e.g. Isaiah 28:10) it is my understanding that masturbation or autosexuality is wrongful behaviour and equated with prostitution and/or uncleanness. My reasons for this have been outlined previously, primarily that you are misusing God’s gift of sexuality in a selfish and inappropriate way that I don’t believe God ever intended for it; and the only legitimate way is between husband and wife.
I've also recently come across another passage to support my belief that masturbation is akin to uncleanness and therefore wrongful behaviour or sin. Ezekiel 36:17-18 states:
"Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it".
Thus, it is my understanding that in this passage, like others (e.g. Isaiah 64:6; Lamentations 1:17), God is equating the "uncleanness" of menstruation with capital offences like murder and idolatry. So, by extension if the "uncleanness" of menstruation as outlined in Leviticus 15:19-30 is tantamount to the "uncleanness" of an "emission of semen" via sex, masturbation or a nocturnal emission (Leviticus 15:16-18; cf. Deuteronomy 23:10-11), then surely the latter would be from God’s perspective not unlike the former? Note the word translated "uncleanness" in Ezekiel 36 (Hebrew "tumah" Strong's #2932) means "uncleanness" or "pollution" and is derived from the Hebrew word "tame" Strong's #2930 used in Leviticus 15. Also, the word translated "removed woman" in Ezekiel 36 (Hebrew "niddah" Strong's #5079) means "menstrual uncleanness" and "something unclean, or filthy". Some even propose an "either/or" situation to demonstrate that masturbation is less "evil" than having sex with a prostitute (i.e. either visit a prostitute or masturbate), in my opinion this is a fallacy and this passage negates such a twisted scenario that gives no real choice at all since the passage implies that God equates all sins alike. And so "the lesser of two evils" is still evil! The answer then is to not fornicate at all, through prostitution, masturbation, pornography, etc. and to remain chaste. Further, God in the same chapter (vv. 25, 29) exclaims: "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you ...I will also save you from all your uncleannesses" (cf. Zechariah 13:1).
quote:
ORIGINAL: Elad02
How do you get masturbation out of the Ezekiel and Jeremiah passages? Harlotry and whoredom are commonly used as allegories for an unfaithful nation.
As I explained previously it is my belief that Ezekiel 16:17 is a fitting description of masturbation; and to a lesser extent Jeremiah 3:9 could imply it as well. As such it is immoral and equated with prostitution, harlotry or whoredom, which is forbidden in Bible Law (Leviticus 19:29; Deuteronomy 23:17-18; cf. Genesis 38:24). Even nakedness is a type of sin, which is why God declares "For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing [margin: "nakedness of anything" Hebrew ervah] in thee, and turn away from thee" (Deuteronomy 23:14; cf. Genesis 3:21; 9:22; Exodus 20:26; 28:42; 32:25; Isaiah 20:2-4; 47:3; Lamentations 1:8; Ezekiel 16:36-7; 23:18, 29; Hosea 2:3; Nahum 3:5; Habakkuk 2:15; 2 Corinthians 5:3; Revelation 3:18; 16:15; 17:16). In this context, I am inclined to believe that both Adam and Eve were possibly clothed in righteousness or light prior to their fall (e.g. Genesis 2:25; 3:7; cf. Revelation 19:14). Accordingly, the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia stated that "The Jews objected vigorously to exposure of the body (even athletes insisting on a loin-cloth (compare 2 Maccabees 4:12-13)), and compulsory nudity was the extreme of shame and humiliation..." (art. "Naked; Nakedness", 1915 edition). This brings to mind the historical relation to the Nazis treatment of the Jews and other captives who were shaved of their body hair; or humiliatingly stripped naked prior to being lined up and shot.
In addition, there is plenty of historical and archaeological evidence of this widespread practice from earliest times. According to Man, Myth and Magic: The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Mythology, Religion and the Unknown ancient societies "made images of the sexual organs in realistic or symbolic forms, and treated them both as objects of reverence and the source of fecundity and increase, and as the power behind paternity, motherhood, fertility, food and seasonal cycles. Some authorities believe that these images may have been worshipped even before homage was paid to the gods themselves...From prehistoric times men have made clay idols, wooden figures and metal sculptures, depicting the primary sexual attributes of their chief deities. The walls of many old Egyptian temples have phallic carvings, and the Greek historian and traveller Herodotus described phallic statues of Osiris in Egyptian villages in his day, in the fifth century BC. In certain ancient Egyptian ceremonies the figure of the male deity was carried in procession with organ erect. Such ithyphallic statuettes were modelled on a smaller scale and popularly used in various rites as talismanic figurines to cure disease, obtain children, cure impotence or bring good luck" (art. "Phallic symbolism"). Along with the article are a few photos of ancient figurines and wall paintings with the sexual organs in disproportionate size; and clay models of the male sexual organs (dildoes). From Hemenway's What's Wrong With Sex?: "The earliest known dildoes have been found in ancient Egyptian tombs; they were made of clay. Since the Egyptian nobility only had buried with them things of great value that they planned to use in the next world, the dildoe must have been very important to Egyptian ladies...Baal Peor means 'My Lord the Opener', and Peor signifies 'the opening of the maiden’s hymen'. In Syria, says St Jerome the image of Baal Peor had a phallus protruding from its mouth. 'They went to Baal Peor and separated (straddled) themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved' (Hosea 2:16). At Roman weddings the brides deflowered themselves on the erect, stone penis of the god Priapus or Tutunus or Hermes so that the first-born would be considered God-begotten. The virgin also placed a wreath of flowers on the head of the image to symbolize the female genital organ--a symbolic act reminiscent of the ancient Indian svayamara ceremony. Any woman thus deflowered was described as a Virgin Bride of God. In fact, 'Holy Virgin' was the title of harlot-priestesses of Ishtar and Aphrodite. The title just meant 'unmarried'. Children born to such temple women from sex worship were called by the Greeks 'parthenioi' (virgin born). Zoroaster, Sargon, Perseus, Jason, Asclepus, Zeus, Krishna, Quetzalcoatl, Horus, Buddha, Mithra, Osiris and many other god-heroes were supposedly virgin born. The god himself was a christos, 'anointed', because the stone phallus was anointed with chrism or holy oil. The custom was still common in the fourth century AD. Some of Priapus's images lasted through the Middle Ages, and giant phalli were adored up to the seventeenth century as saints" (pages 87-89).
Incidentally the Third Commandment prohibiting idolatry (Exodus 20:4-5) has according to various commentators been applied against fornication and adultery as well. And Hemenway gives an alternative interpretation thus: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any carved image, or any likeness of anything (such as the penis) that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is the water under the earth; Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them ("bow down" is defined as sex in Job 31:10), nor serve them, for I the Lord they God am a jealous God (Why jealous unless sex is involved?). And God is the only upright rock that begot us (Psalms 92:15; Deuteronomy 32:18), just as the penis is upright and begets children. Both a rock and a penis are hard also." Indeed, we see relics of ancient phallic symbolism even today, such as the famous obelisks of London (i.e. Cleopatra's Needle), Washington (i.e. Washington Monument) and Vatican City (i.e. St Peter's Square) etc. In relation to this, from my previous discoveries concerning Biblical euphemisms, I have come across the fact that the Biblical concept of water baptism has allusions to human sexuality, and therefore, sex and the sexual organs, rather than being viewed as "dirty" or "disgusting" as some were led to believe in the past, is significant to the Christian process of salvation and should be held with deeper respect. For instance, according to the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (art. "sex"):
1. Males are referred to as "any that ****eth against the wall" (1 Samuel 25:22, 34; 1 Kings 14:10; 16:11; 21:21: 2 Kings 9:8).
2. Foot or Feet (Hebrew "regel") is a common euphemism for genitalia. For instance, urine is called "foot water" (2 Kings 18:27; Isaiah 36:12). Public hair is called "hair of the feet" (Isaiah 7:20; cf. Ezekiel 16:7). Zipporah, after circumcising her son, holds his severed foreskin to Moses' "feet" or genitals (Exodus 4:25-26). Ruth's action of "uncovering [Boaz's] feet" (Ruth 3:7) was a marriage proposal. In Isaiah's temple vision the seraphim had six wings: two to cover the face, two to fly, and two to cover the feet (Isaiah 6:2)—in this latter case, however, it is debatable whether "feet" is literal or euphemistic (cf. Matthew 22:30; Luke 20:34-6). In Deuteronomy 28:57 a woman's children are described as "her afterbirth that comes out from between her feet" while Ezekiel 16:25 vividly depicts Israel's wantonness by the phrase "you opened wide your feet".
3. Hand (Hebrew "yad") can be a euphemism for "penis". For instance, Song of Solomon 5:4 states: "My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him". This has been interpreted to be "suggestive of intercourse". Even the "Dead Sea scrolls refer to a member of the Hebrew religious community at Qumran being fined for exposing his 'hand'" (see http://www.bigbible.org/blog/2007/04/el-shaddai-as-breasted-god_12.htm). In Isaiah 57:8 it is translated as "manhood" (New American Standard); "nudity" (NKJ); "genitals" (Holman Christian Standard), but the literal Hebrew is "looked on their hand". In The Message the passage is translated thus: "Behind closed doors you assemble your precious gods and goddesses. Deserting me, you've gone all out, stripped down and made your bed your place of worship. You've climbed into bed with the 'sacred' whores and loved every minute of it, adoring every curve of their naked bodies."
In fact, as translated in The Message this chapter is a perfect description of the sex-and-death religion of ancient and modern times (e.g. Hollywood films that depict gratuitous sex and explicit violence). And it could be said that this passage could imply the stash of sexualised or pornographic images many paint their walls with behind the bedroom door, not unlike the ancient people of Pompeii who depicted lewd mosaics on their bedroom walls (cf. Ezekiel 8:10-12). Also, the ISBN provides an alternative meaning to 1 Corinthians 6:13 and Philippians 3:19. Paul alludes to those with an insatiable sexual appetite leading to immoral consequences. For instance, the word properly translated "stomach" (Greek "koilia") may connote the libido too since "the association with the sexual organs is just below the surface in Paul's rejection of the moral indifference of the Corinthian libertines" whose sexual licentiousness was renowned and this may explain his charge that some people "serve their bellies" and "glory in their shame", which may be a "thinly veiled reference to genitalia".
Back to the other discovery concerning the analogy of baptism with human reproduction I understand that "water" can symbolize sperm in the Bible (e.g. Isaiah 48:1 cf. Numbers 24:7; Psalms 68:26). And it is interesting that God demands water baptism by which we receive the gift of his Holy Spirit (John 3:5), which is akin to his "seed" (Greek "sperma") in 1 John 3:9. In this way, I don't believe that sex should be cheapened or futilely used as it is spiritually-speaking a beautiful picture of the Christian process of entering into God’s family.
Finally, I’ve discovered that masturbation, in fact all sin, seems to revolve around "fantasy" or "escapism"—i.e. a flight from reality--in other words a false reality! For instance, a person may "fantasize" stealing a car or killing an enemy or having sex with their friend's girlfriend etc. On most occasions, if one has that God-given capacity of a conscience they will, either during or soon after the error, regret their actions, and hopefully this will lead to repentance. So it seems that one avenue Satan uses to tempt or seduce us into sin is primarily through our human imagination by tricking us into a false reality! For instance, we think that if we do this or that we will get away with it or no one will get hurt etc. but the reality is usually the total opposite. Thus, we should not give in to these distractions, but ignore or resist them, replace them with more positive, fruitful pursuits (Philippians 4:8) and in the end overcome these "lying vanities" (Jonah 2:8) by the grace of the living God.
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"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them"--Isaiah 8:20
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 4/20/2008 11:42:55 PM
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BlackCapnHarlock
Posts: 380
Joined: 8/20/2005
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I only struggle with masturbation when I am exposed to sexual stimulating material. When someone watches porn, or lewd music videos then it's going to want you to respond. I do feel that solo masturbation is a sin. If it's for you and your partner then that's different. But I think solo masturbation is a better alternative than committing adultery or fornication itself. The earthly consequences are different.
If Kobe Bryant would have just put on some porn and "relived himself" he would have a lot more money in his pocket.
I don't endorse porn watching or masturbation but we men are mortal and most of all of us have done it.
I do wonder though if we Christians are too hard on our selves sexally. We live in a sexually charged world with sexually charged bodies and many of us come out of sexual relations. It's like telling a person to fast from food the rest of their life, or until they eat for another couple of years.
I do understand sexual purity, but it creates such tension and torture amongst my own soul I wonder if we ever could live up to scripture.
I know we can but man some nights it's torture. I guess that's why Paul called it, "The good fight of faith."
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Ezekiel 16:6 Eze 16:6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 4/23/2008 1:15:06 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3587
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
I do understand sexual purity, but it creates such tension and torture amongst my own soul I wonder if we ever could live up to scripture. Scripture seems to assume being married sometime in the teens so that level of frustration is not much of an issue.
Interesting note: in the Passover Seder (which was just celebrated this past weekend) as part of the retelling of the story of bondage in Egypt there is a part where it mentions "cruel punishment" of the Israelites and explained that it was the forced seperation of husbands and wives.
Lack of proper sexual release for an extended time is indeed cruel punishment.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 4/23/2008 9:15:50 PM
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JordanW
Posts: 594
Joined: 4/23/2008
From: Bakersfield, California
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I am going to try to quit this habit due to it being a sin. I know it's something bad to do to lust over a woman and it isn't right.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 4/25/2008 9:13:27 PM
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cavemun
Posts: 28
Joined: 4/26/2005
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My parents shamed me horribly over mastubating and having porn as a preteen. My mother kept telling me "Christians don't do that" to the point that I thought christians weren't allowed to have sex! It marred my life for a long time to the point that it took 17 years of marriage to feel relaxed about sex. I have told all 3 of my sons that it was O.K. but not in excess, and keep it private. I don't ever want them to think they're gonna burn in hell for something most people feel led to do when they hit puberty. All you guys that obsess over it please don't put this on your sons, they deserve better. This is one of the big problems I have with "christianity run amuck" This thread gets a bit ridiculous!
_____________________________
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." - Gene Wilder in 'Willy Wonka'
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 12:08:02 AM
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U376977
Posts: 23
Joined: 2/24/2008
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quote:
My parents shamed me horribly over mastubating and having porn as a preteen. My mother kept telling me "Christians don't do that" to the point that I thought christians weren't allowed to have sex! It marred my life for a long time to the point that it took 17 years of marriage to feel relaxed about sex. I have told all 3 of my sons that it was O.K. but not in excess, and keep it private. I don't ever want them to think they're gonna burn in hell for something most people feel led to do when they hit puberty. All you guys that obsess over it please don't put this on your sons, they deserve better. This is one of the big problems I have with "christianity run amuck" This thread gets a bit ridiculous!
Uncommon wisdom.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 9:03:40 PM
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RatherDashing
Posts: 7510
Joined: 6/5/2006
From: Shimmyland.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kung_fu_sed
Well I seem to have a problem with that. When it happens to me, I wake up in shock of what is taking place and forcefully stop my ejaculation. I just really don't feel comfortable with it. I don't feel guilty afterwords, but it still doesn't seem right to me.
Wet dreams are an act of subconsciousness, they are very uneasily controllable and often leave a huge mess. Forcefully stopping what's coming natural doesn't seem all that healthy and potentially harmful.
Wet dreams are typically a monthly occurrence for me. When I first started having them frequently, I felt as you described. It just didn't seem right to me, but you have to take into consideration the hormonal build-up and requirement for release. Those who do the "big M" often don't have wet dreams, or not nearly as much.
I view wet dreams as a more natural release opposed to the other form of release. Which, when I did do the "big M", I'd always feel horrible about it afterward, and the satisfaction was only temporal compared to the consequences following.
quote:
I am especially disgusted when I start to dream about something sexual.
Fortunately, I haven't had those types of dreams lately when it is that time of month.
But when dreaming, you're in a subconscious state. It's hard to manage your imagination when you don't have full mental control over yourself. Generally, when I do dream those dreams, I automatically wake up from them.
_____________________________
Some people say matter always existed. Great, I say God always existed.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 4/30/2008 11:29:04 PM
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Anst
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As I've related in the past my own experience resembles kung_fu_sed's account as I found it unpleasant to awake after a nocturnal emission and having to clean myself. And a few times the dreams that have accompanied the nocturnal emissions were morally distasteful to me personally. I understand that God only holds us accountable for what is under our control, in other words what we do based on what we know at the time, and dreams are a dimension of the human mind and imagination that we rarely have control over during sleep.
Although I never masturbated as a teenager I knew of people who did and was at a loss to explain their fixation. But, having resorted to this vice over recent years typifying behaviour that I can only describe as addictive I now understand the intensity of the struggle we come up against to overcome this temptation. I've read that when we yield to temptation, we haven't really felt its full power as we've given in while we have still more to resist. And it is incredible to ponder that Christ Jesus "was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (Hebrews 4:15)--so only those who successfully prevail against temptation and remains sinless knows the full extent of that temptation!
So although I have my beliefs on masturbation at the same time I do not feel that I could "condemn" another if they held an opposing view on a topic--that some deem a non-issue, others deem it the "unpardonable sin", still others who take a "laissez faire" approach that "if it feels good and no-one gets hurt then what's the problem?", and many in between--unless it impacted negatively upon themselves or others (i.e. reindorsing the principle I hold to that God only holds us accountable for our actions based on our knowledge at the time of the incident).
In all, I feel that Christ's words in Matthew 19:11-12 are applicable: "But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."
_____________________________
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them"--Isaiah 8:20
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/10/2008 7:34:11 PM
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whatislove
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Not too long ago, I almost fell into the sin of masturbation. I now feel like worthless garbage. I feel like God has forsaken me, and i'm hellbound again. I feel like there is no forgiveness for me this time. I try praying, but I feel like i'm not connecting with God. Instead I feel like he is radiating his anger towards me. He is pretty much all I have in this world. I'm only 17, and this life has nothing to offer me (for reasons I would like to keep to myself). To loose Him is to loose my purpose and will to live. For first time since I was saved, I feel the claws of depression tightening it's grip around me once more. I don't know where to turn, what to do, or what to believe anymore.
Anyone have any advice?
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/10/2008 9:39:31 PM
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rauyeu2
Posts: 4
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whatislove
Not too long ago, I almost fell into the sin of masturbation. I now feel like worthless garbage. I feel like God has forsaken me, and i'm hellbound again. I feel like there is no forgiveness for me this time. I try praying, but I feel like i'm not connecting with God. Instead I feel like he is radiating his anger towards me. He is pretty much all I have in this world. I'm only 17, and this life has nothing to offer me (for reasons I would like to keep to myself). To loose Him is to loose my purpose and will to live. For first time since I was saved, I feel the claws of depression tightening it's grip around me once more. I don't know where to turn, what to do, or what to believe anymore.
Anyone have any advice?
Brother, there is nothing you can do to make God love you less or to love you anymore. Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" 1 John 1:9
This is something I've taken from John Piper
Rejoice not over me, O my enemy; when I fall, I shall rise; when I sit in darkness, the Lord will be a light to me. I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me out to the light; I shall look upon his vindication. (Micah 7:8-9)
This is what victory looks like the morning after failure. Meditate on it long and hard when I am gone. Learn to take your theology and speak like this to the devil or anyone else who tells you that Christ is not capable of using you mightily for his global cause. Here is what you say:
“Rejoice not over me, O my enemy.” You make merry over my failure? You think you will draw me into your deception? Think again.
“When I fall, I shall rise.” Yes, I have fallen. And I hate what I have done. I grieve at the dishonor I have brought on my king. But hear this, O my enemy, I will rise. I will rise.
“When I sit in darkness, the Lord will be a light to me.” Yes, I am sitting in darkness. I feel miserable. I feel guilty. I am guilty. But that is not all that is true about me and my God. The same God who makes my darkness is a sustaining light to me in this very darkness. He will not forsake me.
“I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me.” O yes, my enemy, this much truth you say, I have sinned. I am bearing the indignation of the Lord. But that is where your truth stops and my theology begins: He—the very one who is indignant with me—he will plead my cause. You say he is against me and that I have no future with him because of my failure. That’s what Job’s friends said. That is a lie. And you are a liar. My God, whose Son’s life is my righteousness and whose Son’s death is my punishment, will execute judgment for me. For me! FOR me! And not against me.
“He will bring me out to the light; I shall look upon his vindication.” This misery that I now feel because of my failure, I will bear as long as my dear God ordains. And this I know for sure—as sure as Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is my punishment and my righteousness—God will bring me out to the light, and I will look upon his righteousness, my Lord and my God.
so brother, I want you to know Jesus has not forsaken you. Sometimes God is working the most in your life when you are broken and silent. Seek and you will find. Please don't give up. Ill be praying for you and feel free to send me some emails or giveme an instant message if you need prayers and more biblical truth to set you free.
I recommend opening up Itunes, spending like $2-3 for a message by John Piper, it is called how to deal with the guilt of sexual failure for the glory of Christ
something along those lines. I wanna tell you I've failed time and time and time again over and over again. Even minutes after praying for forgiveness I'd fall into temptation and sin again. There have been times I've felt he has forsaken me, but he has not. Sometimes taking a nap and then praying to God may fix the problem. DO NOT GIVE UP, Satan comes to steal kill and to destroy, God wants you to live life to the fullest.!!!
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/10/2008 11:28:50 PM
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whatislove
Posts: 8
Joined: 5/10/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rauyeu2
quote:
ORIGINAL: whatislove
Not too long ago, I almost fell into the sin of masturbation. I now feel like worthless garbage. I feel like God has forsaken me, and i'm hellbound again. I feel like there is no forgiveness for me this time. I try praying, but I feel like i'm not connecting with God. Instead I feel like he is radiating his anger towards me. He is pretty much all I have in this world. I'm only 17, and this life has nothing to offer me (for reasons I would like to keep to myself). To loose Him is to loose my purpose and will to live. For first time since I was saved, I feel the claws of depression tightening it's grip around me once more. I don't know where to turn, what to do, or what to believe anymore.
Anyone have any advice?
Brother, there is nothing you can do to make God love you less or to love you anymore. Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" 1 John 1:9
This is something I've taken from John Piper
Rejoice not over me, O my enemy; when I fall, I shall rise; when I sit in darkness, the Lord will be a light to me. I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me out to the light; I shall look upon his vindication. (Micah 7:8-9)
This is what victory looks like the morning after failure. Meditate on it long and hard when I am gone. Learn to take your theology and speak like this to the devil or anyone else who tells you that Christ is not capable of using you mightily for his global cause. Here is what you say:
“Rejoice not over me, O my enemy.” You make merry over my failure? You think you will draw me into your deception? Think again.
“When I fall, I shall rise.” Yes, I have fallen. And I hate what I have done. I grieve at the dishonor I have brought on my king. But hear this, O my enemy, I will rise. I will rise.
“When I sit in darkness, the Lord will be a light to me.” Yes, I am sitting in darkness. I feel miserable. I feel guilty. I am guilty. But that is not all that is true about me and my God. The same God who makes my darkness is a sustaining light to me in this very darkness. He will not forsake me.
“I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me.” O yes, my enemy, this much truth you say, I have sinned. I am bearing the indignation of the Lord. But that is where your truth stops and my theology begins: He—the very one who is indignant with me—he will plead my cause. You say he is against me and that I have no future with him because of my failure. That’s what Job’s friends said. That is a lie. And you are a liar. My God, whose Son’s life is my righteousness and whose Son’s death is my punishment, will execute judgment for me. For me! FOR me! And not against me.
“He will bring me out to the light; I shall look upon his vindication.” This misery that I now feel because of my failure, I will bear as long as my dear God ordains. And this I know for sure—as sure as Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is my punishment and my righteousness—God will bring me out to the light, and I will look upon his righteousness, my Lord and my God.
so brother, I want you to know Jesus has not forsaken you. Sometimes God is working the most in your life when you are broken and silent. Seek and you will find. Please don't give up. Ill be praying for you and feel free to send me some emails or giveme an instant message if you need prayers and more biblical truth to set you free.
I recommend opening up Itunes, spending like $2-3 for a message by John Piper, it is called how to deal with the guilt of sexual failure for the glory of Christ
something along those lines. I wanna tell you I've failed time and time and time again over and over again. Even minutes after praying for forgiveness I'd fall into temptation and sin again. There have been times I've felt he has forsaken me, but he has not. Sometimes taking a nap and then praying to God may fix the problem. DO NOT GIVE UP, Satan comes to steal kill and to destroy, God wants you to live life to the fullest.!!!
Oh wow, a Christian that actually encourages his brother in Christ. I thought such people didn't exist anymore. I thank you with all of my heart for your kind and uplifting words, and quotes from scripture. That just made my day. 
Now let me address the question of if masturbation is a sin. I read many strong arguments for both sides of the debate. This is the way I look at it. Say you go to a prayer meeting. The Holy Spirit fills the prayer meeting, and you get filled with it. Would you be comfortable with going to the bathroom to masturbate, with the intent to glorify the Lord. I want you to think about this with honesty. No biased or presumptuous opinions based on beliefs or fears installed in the family or church. If you are not sure, then when you do get filled with the Spirit, go to the bathroom and see if you are even able to look at "yourself". I'm not saying that you should test God, i'm just trying to point out that you should base your feelings on the Lord, not what others say. If you can masturbate and NOT feel "ify" or guilty WHILE filled with the SPIRIT, then I would assume it reasonable to conclude that M is not a sin. If I am at a crossroad and not sure what to do, I think to myself "what would I do if I was filled with the Spirit this moment?"
For a 17 year old teenage guy (with an over-active sex drive) like me, fighting masturbation is like fighting against gravity. When you go up, you just have to come down. Same with masturbation. You stop for a while, but then the hormones kick in and build up, you turn into a nutcase trying to resist a "natural" force of nature. Not to mention the advertising of sexual images at every turn, which just add to the load single teenage Christians have to carry. I do not understand what all you married guys are fighting over. I mean, at least you get to relieve that tension once in a while. Stop whining and be men for crying out loud.
Where is my stand on the case of masturbation? Neutral as of today. This is what ultimately caused the reconsideration of my stance:
http://www.layhands.com/IsMasturbationASin.htm
Would someone would please read through that as I did? Then give a well thought out evaluation of it? I personally feel that the person who wrote that has some good points.
Most of my fears and knowledge of masturbation has come from things that I have read online, and what certain people have told me. However, after I read what this person(http://www.layhands.com/IsMasturbationASin.htm) had to say, I realized that those fears and teachings were indeed obsolete. I will try to M, with the intent of glorifying the Lord as others have suggested on this thread. I will post my thoughts and feelings afterwards.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/11/2008 12:15:52 AM
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whatislove
Posts: 8
Joined: 5/10/2008
Status: offline
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Alright well this is what I did.
I went to the bathroom, and prayed that God show me his heart and true feeling towards masturbation. I then put in a Casting Crowns cd, put on my headphones, and proceeded. I achieved ejaculation without any lustful thoughts. After I was finished, I felt no guilt. I feel like a ton of bricks has been lifted off of my shoulders. I can now go about my business without being distracted every few minutes.
These are my results, so please don't take my word for it. Do your own talking with the Lord, and unbiased investigating.
I will keep you guys up to date if masturbation ever becomes the "monster" some claim it will be, if you keep "feeding" it.
I plan to M every few months or so, when I seriously can NOT take it anymore. I will not abuse or use it as a form of pleasure, or lust. For me, it will simply be a form of tension release, so I can continue with my daily life.
If the Lord ever reveals to me otherwise, I will discontinue masturbating.
Again, I can not stress this enough. Do NOT take my word for it. Do your own praying and investigating. I can not take responsibility for anyones actions, as I have warned you to not apply my results to your life. So if you go on some emotional "guilt trip", don't blame me.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/11/2008 1:01:18 AM
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rauyeu2
Posts: 4
Joined: 5/10/2008
Status: offline
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i know its nice to "relieve" yourself but remember, IT IS NEVER going to fully satisfy you. pray in the spirit to fight the sin! keep yourself busy. i know when i sit in front of the computer or in front of the tv that is when i get real real real tempted. fight it for your first love -God. dont let sin take you down, find accountability from your brothers in Christ.
Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble. ~ 1 corin 8:13
this is the cost of discipleship, laying ourdesires and what we want for what God wants.
alot of people will come up with excuses such as i can masturbate without a image.
how will you tell your future wife that? would you tell a girlfriend that? would you tell a random girl that? what would she think?
im not trying to tell you or ask you to change, but im here to encourage you , with your walk with the creator btw i feel your pain, its tough 18 right here strugglin
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/11/2008 1:08:02 AM
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whatislove
Posts: 8
Joined: 5/10/2008
Status: offline
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I change my mind. A little while after I went about my business, I started to feel like something wasn't right.
The Lord then revealed to me that when we live by His Spirit, our eyes are opened to see things as God sees them. I now realize that masturbation truly is a sin. Also, when we live by His Spirit, we have no need for any lusts or desires of the flesh. We overcome and see them for what they are. Only when the flesh takes over do we start to desire to masturbate. When this happens, take my experience as a reminder or an example, and don't give in. I guess you can say that I "took one for the team."
I thank God almighty for enlightening me, and forgiving my sins. I now ask for forgiveness from anyone I have offended.
My conclusion: Masturbating IS a sin.
< Message edited by whatislove -- 5/11/2008 1:18:43 AM >
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/11/2008 1:13:44 AM
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rauyeu2
Posts: 4
Joined: 5/10/2008
Status: offline
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something that will help is um finding a brother in christ at your church or someone who feels the same you feel about this.
maybe you guys can start a "sin money jar", i call it the cookie car
what it is, is when you fall short with the sin, you would put in a set amount that you and yur friend/brother in christ has agreed to and just donate it to maybe your church offering or find a organization with a good cause maybe like world vision or children internatiln
and i think making it a big amount will really help you.
such as like $10,$15 each time and increase the amount
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