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ORIGINAL: PDChaplain

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if we want to PRESERVE marriages and promote reconciliation instead of divorce.

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with a view to a healthy reconciliation.

My concern here is that you seem to be advocating that women (and some men) stay in abusive relationships. Are you indeed saying that reconciliation should occur in a relationship where there has been continual physical violence, verbal and emotional abuse, and in some cases rape by a spouse who apologizes but never changes their actions? If so called "Christian" shelters advocate this then they would be much worse than the "gender biased" secular ones.

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Sister, you are VERY naive, then, about what goes on in many of these places. You have been sheltered from the shelters

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When we (as THE CHURCH) leave the STATE to take care of our battered, of our hurting, what do we expect?

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When will the church step up to its' responsibility in taking care of those who need help?

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ORIGINAL: PDChaplain

.....do you see the tie between the feminist movement and women's shelters?

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ORIGINAL: PDChaplain

Kim, with all due respect, I have no issues with women as it pertains to their gender. I just have issues with men or women both who blindly offer advice out of their emotions or biases, apart from logic or common sense.

I must ask, sister ..... do you see the tie between the feminist movement and women's shelters?

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ORIGINAL: PDChaplain

I very much agree with those who state the church should be the FIRST to step up and help in domestic abuse among the flock. Actually, most will if just given the chance. Instead, we have been forcefed the image that the abused MUST first get help from these shelters.

I have never heard or seen this from any church I have been a part of or those that we worked together with.


That is fallacy, at least in most cases and if we want to PRESERVE marriages and promote reconciliation instead of divorce. Our people have been programmed to seek the secular remedies instead of keeping these things under "house scrutiny". My belief is that the church and extended families must be given first priority in these cases.

You are still leaving out those that don't know Christ. From what I have seen in and outside of the church, there is more of a need for those that don't know Christ and are in an abusive relationship. I.E. it happens more often with those that don't know Jesus. What about them? Yes, help our BROTHERS and SISTERS, but if there is no need with them, go to where there is a need.

I will stand by my assertations that the OVERALL umbrella of these "shelters" are little more than feminist sanctuaries and they do more harm than good. Rarely will one get anything resembling Christian counsel in these facilities ..... rather, they are enabled to feed their hate and discontent and remain the perpetual victim.

I don't expect a secular shelter to follow my Christian values. They don't believe as I do. That is why several others encouraged people to become a part of these shelters to be "light in the darkness". Not only are you an influence on those that are seeking refuge, but also on those that are there to counsel.

You make it sound like the shelter is the reason that they are hating and discontented in the first place. I would think that for those that do hate their husband after being abused that, that is where it stems from.

Quite the opposite, I see a lot of these women still love their husbands despite the fact that their husbands hurt them. A lot of them even go back to that same abuse.

As far as being the perpetual victim... They are a VICTIM, of the abuse. A lot of these shelters tell them they don't have to be a victim anymore. They wouldn't have been a victim if their husband was being obedient to God and doing his role.

The church offers the chance for the abuse victim to move from victim to victor .... and they will do it WITHOUT taxpayer monies and with a view to a healthy reconciliation. Secular shelters are staffed and resourced according to the number of "clients" they get ..... remove the clients of only alleged but undocumented abuse and they get a reduction of their funding. They know this. Thus, many of these places are nothing more than assembly lines.

I think it is extremely important to seek reconciliation between a husband and wife, because I think there is still hope if both parties are willing. Sadly this is not always the case. If a husband abuses his wife, and won't seek counseling and continues to do so, I can't consciously tell her to just take it. I will tell her that she can find grace and forgiveness at the cross, and that she can thank God that he didn't kill her.

It doesn't surprise me that a few here blanch when I present the OTHER side of abuse. It IS a shock to us .... it should be! The inequities of the system need to be brought out into the open and dealt with .... public opinion of all of us as taxpayers and humanitarians demand it.

Who are you to say that the people on these boards don't know and understand that men are abused too. I look over the posts and they are in agreement that men need to be treated the same way. The men need to start stepping up and say that they have been abused. They have a voice and need to use it. There probably need to be more resources for men.I do disagree with putting them in the same shelter as women.
No one here, least of all me, has EVER said these "shelters" should be done away with.

What myself and many others DO advocate is that the injustices of the system be recognized and addressed. To some, the whole concept of the shelter industry is their sacred cow .... and they won't give up their agendas without a fight.

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ORIGINAL: PDChaplain

In spite of the weakness of SOME churches, I still don't think it honoring to the Lord to circumvent the brotherhood of believers in order to seek secular remedy. We at least owe it to the integrity of the Word to FIRST give our churches the chance to help. If they refuse to get involved or prove themselves incapable of assitance, THEN AND ONLY THEN will I advocate turning to one of these man-hating shelters.

You just lumped shelters together and lableled them man-hating. Was this your intent? Because I know in a previous post you said not all were like this?

Again, it is my belief that we flippantly refer abused people ..... the vast majority of them, women ..... to these shelters out of hand without even giving the church the chance to remedy the case. This is wrong, IMO.

Some churches don't have the resources and some won't take the opportunity. To say that we are preventing the church from doing so

If these "shelters" had the best interests of the family and reconciliation at heart, most of them would go out of business in short order. The public monies would dry up as the need would be greatly reduced. That SHOULD be the goal of all of us ..... to remove the need .... instead of feeding the entitlement monster.

Except for the fact that many women go back to the abusive relationship and end up right back in the shelter when it happens again. Sometimes, people won't seek help beyond finding refuge for a few nights. Even from those that seek refuge from a church. You can't force both parties to get counseling. They have to choose it. If it does end in divorce, I have known many of women that go right back into another abusive relationship because that is all they have ever known, and the one that did the abusing moves onto someone else.

It is a vicious cycle, but it is a fallen world.

Some of these shelters see the need to assure the woman that, "Why, of course you've been abused!!!", when in fact no abuse has occured. They are adept at manipulating a woman's mind to see herself as a victim. Problem is, this tactic detracts from the resources needed for LEGITIMATE abuse victims.

Abuse exists in more than just the physical form. People can be mentally and emotionally abused.

No, my small commmunity has no resources for male abuse victims. In fact, I am on very good terms with the ladies staffing our local center. In my job, I've had contacts with them and I've found them to have the common sense to investigate BOTH sides of the coin BEFORE pronouncing judgement. If more "shelters" would do this, this would be a non-issue.

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ORIGINAL: PDChaplain

Hattie, thank you for your post.

I got curious and called the links you provided. I was told that this church has NO counseling or NO counseling or shelter accomodations for male abuse victims. . They basically minister to the homeless men. They would take an initial intake and outsource that specific abuse need to a "contracting agency". When I pressed them, I was told that yes .... this "agency" would be a secular women's shelter and they doubt that they would have shelter or counseling available solely for men.

Hattie, in this case, the church really can offer nothing to an abused man other than to refer him elsewhere out into the world. I personally find this discouraging. They DO, however, offer exclusive helps to female abuse victims. See the doublestandard?????

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For many men "Taking it like a man" means don't complain and don't show you are vulnerable or in pain!
• Men are to be self-sufficient. This means they do not need to be helped by others, if they are men.

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ORIGINAL: PDChaplain

What is commonly applied in these shelters is known as Feminist Therapy. Here is an eyeopening look at the history behind this ..... uuuhhh ..... movement.

"History and Development:
Feminist therapy has developed in a grassroots manner, responding to challenges and to the emerging needs of women. The beginnings of feminist therapy can be traced to the women’s movement of the 1960’s, a time when women began uniting their voices to express their dissatisfaction with the limiting and confining nature of traditional female roles. Consciousness-raising groups, in which women came together to share their experiences and perceptions, helped individual women become aware that they were not alone in their views. A sisterhood developed, and some of the services that evolved from women’s collective desires to improve society included shelters for battered women, rape crisis centers, and women’s health and reproductive health centers."

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ORIGINAL: faceinthecrowd

If we want there to be reconciliation in families where abuse is a problem then all parties need to come to the table on equal financial and emotional footing. So that neither party has power over the other. That requires, in most situations, that both parties be capable of establishing independent households. Unfortunately women and children who leave abusive relationships have a hard time setting up these independent households and face the prospect of homelessness.

It is harder for a woman especially a mother to leave an abusive relationship because she has a lower earning potential than her husband, and gender roles dictate that she is responsible for the children as well. In many cases abusive males are also controlling keeping their wives from self supporting work, or garnishing their salaries when they do work. Mothers who leave are often without jobs or without savings. Shelters provide a place where she is given the time she needs to set up her own household, though on average it is unlikely that she will make as much money as her husband even with this help.

Physically abused men are far rarer (though I think verbally abused men are probably much more common). If an abused man decides to leave, he probably already has a job and resources to set up his separate household. It is not as likely that he will take the kids with him, but if he does at least his job on average will provide for his family better than his wife's would.

Women and children who leave abusive households are more likely to become homeless than men (and children) in the same situation. Hence abuse shelters cater to women and children more often than men.

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We aren't going to act the way society wants us to act because society wants us to act that way. We are going to act the way that we act because we believe it is right. In the case of many feminists, what we believe is right comes from our faith.