|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/4/2008 10:12:17 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2788
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
|
quote:
So let me beat, yell at my wife because she doesn't summit to me. Even if she doesn't summit to me. Doesn't give oppurtunity to do what he said. But I need to show her more love. Like Christ does for a fool like me.
WRONG
Eph 5:22 - 33 (ESV) 22Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
Eph 5:15 - 21 (ESV) 15Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, 16making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, 19addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart, 20giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.
24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. 25Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.£
28In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30because we are members of his body. 31£“Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. 33However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
1 Pet 2:13 - 14 (ESV) 13Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution,£ whether it be to the emperor£ as supreme, 14or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good.
1 Pet 3:7 (ESV) 7Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you£ of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/4/2008 10:54:41 PM
|
|
|
Stephanos
Posts: 1102
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
So let me beat, yell at my wife because she doesn't summit to me. Even if she doesn't summit to me. Doesn't give oppurtunity to do what he said. But I need to show her more love. Like Christ does for a fool like me.
If that is what you think Pastor MacArthur was advocating then you are greatly deceived and biased to the truth. If this is what you think he was saying, you have an obligation to PROVE where he EVER said it is ok for the husband to beat their wife. A
And you say you heard THAT sermon. THAT video. But again I point out that if you came to listen to hear me on one weekend, I would focus only on women submission one week, and the NEXT week I would focus on the responsibility of the husband to give support and sacrifice for his wife. You could make the argument that you did hear my entire sermon on women submisison. But you did not hear the full context, and you would be completely wrong if you thought I would say women should submit, and husbands could beat their wifes if they do not.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/4/2008 10:56:27 PM
|
|
|
humbleinspirit
Posts: 18135
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
Status: offline
|
Now with all of my objections about John MacArthur, I have to agree with Stephanos that I am sure that he NEVER said that also.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/4/2008 11:03:45 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2788
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
|
As diferent pastors have diferent preaching styles. a read through of the gospels will make it evident the different Apostles had differing sytles of writing.
All presented the Truth, they just did it in differing manners. So is it with preachers. The crux of the matter is this: are the presenting the Truth of the Gospel as does MacAruthur. Or, they presenting the feel-good pablum of Joel Osteen?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 9:16:13 AM
|
|
|
teclils
Posts: 110
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline
|
I am not at home right now so I cannot look this up ...but in using the crosswalk search for this scripture using the Strongs KJV Submit is not even translated....
so my question is ...when translating the NT from Greek to English did they add the word submit?
something to ponder over.... 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 9:18:53 AM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6205
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
The same word used for the husband to submit to Jesus is used for the wife to submit to her husband. It's not a matter of both not being equal the cross, but a matter of roles in the marriage, in a godly household.
Submission is a natural response to loving leadership. When a husband loves his wife as Christ loves the church (Ephesians 5:25-33), then submission is a natural response from a wife to her husband.
The Greek word translated submit (Hupotasso) is the continuing form of the verb.
This means that to submit to God, our leaders, and our husband is not a one-time decision. It is a continual attitude of our minds, which becomes a pattern of behavior. The submission talked about in Ephesians 5 is not talking about one-sided subjection by a believer to a selfish-domineering person.
Biblical submission is designed to be between two Spirit-filled believers who are mutually yielded to each other and to God.
Submission is a two-way street.
Submission is a position of honor and completeness. When a wife is loved as Christ loves the church, submission is not difficult. Ephesians 5:24 says, “just as the church submits itself to Christ.”
This verse is saying that the wife is to submit to her husband in everything that is right and lawful. Therefore, the wife is under no obligation to disobey the law or neglect her relationship to God.
The woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam; not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved.
The “submit” in Ephesians 5:21 is the same word as in 5:22. Believers are to submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Verses 19-21 are all results of being filled with the Holy Spirit (5:18). Spirit-filled believers are to be worshipful (5:19), thankful (5:20), and submissive (5:21).
Paul then follows his line of thought on Spirit-filled living and applies it to husbands and wives in verses 22-33.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 10:08:39 AM
|
|
|
mcleod
Posts: 1071
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
So let me beat, yell at my wife because she doesn't summit to me. Even if she doesn't summit to me. Doesn't give oppurtunity to do what he said. But I need to show her more love. Like Christ does for a fool like me.
If that is what you think Pastor MacArthur was advocating then you are greatly deceived and biased to the truth. If this is what you think he was saying, you have an obligation to PROVE where he EVER said it is ok for the husband to beat their wife. A
And you say you heard THAT sermon. THAT video. But again I point out that if you came to listen to hear me on one weekend, I would focus only on women submission one week, and the NEXT week I would focus on the responsibility of the husband to give support and sacrifice for his wife. You could make the argument that you did hear my entire sermon on women submisison. But you did not hear the full context, and you would be completely wrong if you thought I would say women should submit, and husbands could beat their wifes if they do not.
Hey do you not read what I write? If you can't then please don't respond to what I wrote. One more time I watched the whole thing.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 10:14:16 AM
|
|
|
mcleod
Posts: 1071
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
The same word used for the husband to submit to Jesus is used for the wife to submit to her husband. It's not a matter of both not being equal the cross, but a matter of roles in the marriage, in a godly household.
Submission is a natural response to loving leadership. When a husband loves his wife as Christ loves the church (Ephesians 5:25-33), then submission is a natural response from a wife to her husband.
The Greek word translated submit (Hupotasso) is the continuing form of the verb.
This means that to submit to God, our leaders, and our husband is not a one-time decision. It is a continual attitude of our minds, which becomes a pattern of behavior. The submission talked about in Ephesians 5 is not talking about one-sided subjection by a believer to a selfish-domineering person.
Biblical submission is designed to be between two Spirit-filled believers who are mutually yielded to each other and to God.
Submission is a two-way street.
Submission is a position of honor and completeness. When a wife is loved as Christ loves the church, submission is not difficult. Ephesians 5:24 says, “just as the church submits itself to Christ.”
This verse is saying that the wife is to submit to her husband in everything that is right and lawful. Therefore, the wife is under no obligation to disobey the law or neglect her relationship to God.
The woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam; not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved.
The “submit” in Ephesians 5:21 is the same word as in 5:22. Believers are to submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Verses 19-21 are all results of being filled with the Holy Spirit (5:18). Spirit-filled believers are to be worshipful (5:19), thankful (5:20), and submissive (5:21).
Paul then follows his line of thought on Spirit-filled living and applies it to husbands and wives in verses 22-33.
Yes my yes, earthless you have it right down the middle on that thought. This what dear John missed in the film.
To say that I think all of his thoughts are screwy. I would be wrong on that. But for him to think his way or you are a fool then guess what he is human and not the anoint one.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 10:28:34 AM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6205
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
So let me beat, yell at my wife because she doesn't summit to me. Even if she doesn't summit to me. Doesn't give oppurtunity to do what he said. But I need to show her more love. Like Christ does for a fool like me.
If that is what you think Pastor MacArthur was advocating then you are greatly deceived and biased to the truth. If this is what you think he was saying, you have an obligation to PROVE where he EVER said it is ok for the husband to beat their wife. A
And you say you heard THAT sermon. THAT video. But again I point out that if you came to listen to hear me on one weekend, I would focus only on women submission one week, and the NEXT week I would focus on the responsibility of the husband to give support and sacrifice for his wife. You could make the argument that you did hear my entire sermon on women submisison. But you did not hear the full context, and you would be completely wrong if you thought I would say women should submit, and husbands could beat their wifes if they do not.
Hey do you not read what I write? If you can't then please don't respond to what I wrote. One more time I watched the whole thing.
No need to shout or get agitated.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 10:29:52 AM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6205
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
Yes my yes, earthless you have it right down the middle on that thought. This what dear John missed in the film.
To say that I think all of his thoughts are screwy. I would be wrong on that. But for him to think his way or you are a fool then guess what he is human and not the anoint one.
Where did he or anyone else claim he was the anointed one?
Really, the problem for some here with MacArthur are those that adhere to the Emergent circle.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 10:39:43 AM
|
|
|
teclils
Posts: 110
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline
|
I am still checking him out...so far what I seen I have no problems with...
Thanks for your input Earthless on the "Submit"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 10:58:40 AM
|
|
|
mcleod
Posts: 1071
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
Yes my yes, earthless you have it right down the middle on that thought. This what dear John missed in the film.
To say that I think all of his thoughts are screwy. I would be wrong on that. But for him to think his way or you are a fool then guess what he is human and not the anoint one.
Where did he or anyone else claim he was the anointed one?
Really, the problem for some here with MacArthur are those that adhere to the Emergent circle.
I am not emergent nor a foolish Bapist, Vineyard, Luthern,....etc. etc.. I am a follower of Jesus Christ and his words. I believe in the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit. I study the bible and really don't read of other books except history and political processes. I do listen to others when speaking and ask God to show me how I can change to bring him glory.
May I say What I find is that once you think you have it down pat and all of the answers. The evil one puts tought patterns in your mind how great you are. Not so says God on that matter.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 11:01:25 AM
|
|
|
TheosCentric
Posts: 1938
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
Quotes from these links:Trap #3: Focusing on Self-Esteem
quote:
[A very prevalent approach today is to build a child’s self-esteem. That method assumes that if a child sees himself as good, noble, and wonderful, he’ll not only behave better, but he will also treat others better. This method turns self-love into a virtue.
The truth is that much of the modern effort to spark kids’ self-esteem is simply pouring gasoline on a runaway fire. It encourages already selfish kids to think they are justified in wanting their own way. It makes you as a parent think you have to defer to the child, no matter what, because the child has a right to express himself freely, so he feels good about himself. All of that only escalates out-of-control behavior and feeds the worst tendencies of human depravity. Want to ensure that your child will become a delinquent? Feed his self-esteem and then compound the problem by refusing to correct him when he is wrong.
Self-esteem is based on an unbiblical perspective that denies original sin and the doctrine of total depravity. The Bible has nothing positive to say about self-esteem, self-love, or any other variety of self-centeredness. It teaches your child to deny himself, not love himself (Luke 9:23).
On Children and self-esteem, he is wrong.
Actually, I think he is dead on target. Why do you think he is wrong?
quote:
and this link too:
God's Pattern for Children, Pt.2
quote:
"Doctors, if they believe they have found a treatment, do not pretend to fully comprehend the disorder. For now, scientists now ADHD is not the result of brain damage, it is not the result of wrong diet...listen to this...and they're sure it's not the result of bad parenting." You know what bad parenting is? Spanking your child.
Wrong again. While there is a problem, he is surely throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
(edited to better point to links indicated.)
Does science and psychology trump the Word of God?
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 11:26:10 AM
|
|
|
Stephanos
Posts: 1102
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
So let me beat, yell at my wife because she doesn't summit to me. Even if she doesn't summit to me. Doesn't give oppurtunity to do what he said. But I need to show her more love. Like Christ does for a fool like me.
If that is what you think Pastor MacArthur was advocating then you are greatly deceived and biased to the truth. If this is what you think he was saying, you have an obligation to PROVE where he EVER said it is ok for the husband to beat their wife. A
And you say you heard THAT sermon. THAT video. But again I point out that if you came to listen to hear me on one weekend, I would focus only on women submission one week, and the NEXT week I would focus on the responsibility of the husband to give support and sacrifice for his wife. You could make the argument that you did hear my entire sermon on women submisison. But you did not hear the full context, and you would be completely wrong if you thought I would say women should submit, and husbands could beat their wifes if they do not.
Hey do you not read what I write? If you can't then please don't respond to what I wrote. One more time I watched the whole thing.
I think it is quite telling that you have to resort to yelling to try and get your point accross.
Yes I heard you the first time, and instead of providing proof of what you heard, you stand by the simple logic that it must be true because you heard it. Where as I have shown, that if you listen to just ONE of my sermons, you would not get the whole picture. Which as you continue to speak, and not provide answers, convinces me that while you may indeed have watched "the whole thing" in your eyes, it is clear you missed the context that Pastor MacArthur. If you make the claim that Pastor MacArthur said that it is ok to beat wives who do not submit, you have the OBLIGATION to provide EVIDENCE that he actually said this. Otherwise, until then, it is obvious that you listened to him with a preconcieved BIAS, and did not listen to his message in its full context.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 11:33:55 AM
|
|
|
mcleod
Posts: 1071
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline
|
One more time Stephones I did not miss a thing on his wording. I didnot as you may think throw the whole thing out. But in certian places I shook my head and thought what a fool.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 11:39:05 AM
|
|
|
mcleod
Posts: 1071
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
Quotes from these links:Trap #3: Focusing on Self-Esteem
quote:
[A very prevalent approach today is to build a child’s self-esteem. That method assumes that if a child sees himself as good, noble, and wonderful, he’ll not only behave better, but he will also treat others better. This method turns self-love into a virtue.
The truth is that much of the modern effort to spark kids’ self-esteem is simply pouring gasoline on a runaway fire. It encourages already selfish kids to think they are justified in wanting their own way. It makes you as a parent think you have to defer to the child, no matter what, because the child has a right to express himself freely, so he feels good about himself. All of that only escalates out-of-control behavior and feeds the worst tendencies of human depravity. Want to ensure that your child will become a delinquent? Feed his self-esteem and then compound the problem by refusing to correct him when he is wrong.
Self-esteem is based on an unbiblical perspective that denies original sin and the doctrine of total depravity. The Bible has nothing positive to say about self-esteem, self-love, or any other variety of self-centeredness. It teaches your child to deny himself, not love himself (Luke 9:23).
On Children and self-esteem, he is wrong.
Actually, I think he is dead on target. Why do you think he is wrong?
quote:
and this link too:
God's Pattern for Children, Pt.2
quote:
"Doctors, if they believe they have found a treatment, do not pretend to fully comprehend the disorder. For now, scientists now ADHD is not the result of brain damage, it is not the result of wrong diet...listen to this...and they're sure it's not the result of bad parenting." You know what bad parenting is? Spanking your child.
Wrong again. While there is a problem, he is surely throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
(edited to better point to links indicated.)
Does science and psychology trump the Word of God?
No it doesn't. But John takes one verse in Proverbs and runs with it. Forgets that the scriptures show us of a Father with arms wide open when we fail.
Um, maybe Jesus words might just trump those words.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 11:50:42 AM
|
|
|
Stephanos
Posts: 1102
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
One more time Stephones I did not miss a thing on his wording. I didnot as you may think throw the whole thing out. But in certian places I shook my head and thought what a fool.
But yet you provide NO evidence, NO support for what you CLAIM to hear. I could go talk to someone who does not come to thsi board, and I can CLAIM that I heard you mcleod say that Complementarian Christians are all evil wife beating monsters. Would you like that? Would you like it if I offered NO PROOF that I heard that? After all, you are clearly egaltarian, and it just makes sence that that is what you think. Of course you did not actually say that, but that is what I heard and read. Are you ok with that? Or would you expect that person I told to ask for proof? Ask for verification?
The fact is, you claim to have heard something, does not mean A) you truly did or B) you listened to it in its FULL CONTEXT. If you were able to provide us with what you heard, then we could verify if what you said is correct. But seeing as you are the ONLY one to think that Pastor MacArthur says husbands can beat their wives, or anything like that, even those who disagree with Pastor MacArthur say he never did or would say anything like that, with all that, it is clear that you are wrong. And the fact that you are making NO effort to show us where and how you were right, signifies that somewhere deep down you KNOW you are wrong, and just dont want to face the truth.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 1:09:31 PM
|
|
|
mcleod
Posts: 1071
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline
|
Hey I pray that you may have your binders removed and you will look at what some tells you to be the truth in the matter at hand.
I hate say this but for some reason you believe that John has a golden tongue and the only one who step on this planet with that was the creator of all things.
Sorry you think John is perfect  .
By the way, what you write about me. Maybe you fall into the category that you are accusing me of. Oh wait you have a affiliation with a seminary. You are so much more superior to me? Right!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 1:59:50 PM
|
|
|
Stephanos
Posts: 1102
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
Hey I pray that you may have your binders removed and you will look at what some tells you to be the truth in the matter at hand.
I hate say this but for some reason you believe that John has a golden tongue and the only one who step on this planet with that was the creator of all things.
Sorry you think John is perfect .
By the way, what you write about me. Maybe you fall into the category that you are accusing me of. Oh wait you have a affiliation with a seminary. You are so much more superior to me? Right!
No I am asking for EVIDENCE to back up your ACCUSATION on what Pastor MacArthur said. Again, would you like it if I went around telling LIES about you giving no evidence supporting what I said? No you would not. You would not like it one bit. So why do you not offer a shread of evidence supporting what you say Pastor John MacArthur said. Surely if it was so memorable, so impressed on the evilness of what he said, surely the name of the video that you saw would be there, the name of the Video series, ANYTHING?!
BTW...one good thing about attending a seminary, is A) I am taught proper ways to debate and confront bad theology and bad theological claims. That is to use evidence to support what you say so what you say has weight. Granted I was taught this in High School debate class, but hey I guess not all of us are this lucky. B) I actually have a professor who not only attended the Masters Seminary as a student, he taught there several years before comming back to Missouri and teaching here at MBTS. I am sure it would be very easy for him, if I were to ask him if it were possible for him to get me a copy of any video series, no matter how long ago, that you say Pastor MacArthur said something. So do you have the video series that I can look it up? You see if you knew anything about me in this forum, is I LOOK for challenges to what i believe. And IF I am proven wrong I change what I believe. If you say you saw John MacArthur say it is ok for husbands to beat their wives if they dont submit, and it IS true, then I will join you in condemning MacArthur. But I can not take JUST your word for it, esspecially when it is obvious you not only have preconvieved bias' against John MacArthur, but against complementarianism as well.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 2:06:04 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
Hey I pray that you may have your binders removed ...
Preparation H?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 2:49:34 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6205
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
I am not emergent nor a foolish Bapist, Vineyard, Luthern,....etc. etc.. I am a follower of Jesus Christ and his words. I believe in the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit. I study the bible and really don't read of other books except history and political processes. I do listen to others when speaking and ask God to show me how I can change to bring him glory.
May I say What I find is that once you think you have it down pat and all of the answers. The evil one puts tought patterns in your mind how great you are. Not so says God on that matter.
Again, where has MacArthur or anyone in this thread claimed to know it all?
I sure do hope you know there is a grand difference between being absolutely sure about the core essentials of Christianity versus someone who claims or thinks he knows it all.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 2:51:59 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6205
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
And since when is asking for evidence for something seen as being blind?
Ah, the irony.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 5:06:59 PM
|
|
|
TheosCentric
Posts: 1938
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
Quotes from these links:Trap #3: Focusing on Self-Esteem
quote:
[A very prevalent approach today is to build a child’s self-esteem. That method assumes that if a child sees himself as good, noble, and wonderful, he’ll not only behave better, but he will also treat others better. This method turns self-love into a virtue.
The truth is that much of the modern effort to spark kids’ self-esteem is simply pouring gasoline on a runaway fire. It encourages already selfish kids to think they are justified in wanting their own way. It makes you as a parent think you have to defer to the child, no matter what, because the child has a right to express himself freely, so he feels good about himself. All of that only escalates out-of-control behavior and feeds the worst tendencies of human depravity. Want to ensure that your child will become a delinquent? Feed his self-esteem and then compound the problem by refusing to correct him when he is wrong.
Self-esteem is based on an unbiblical perspective that denies original sin and the doctrine of total depravity. The Bible has nothing positive to say about self-esteem, self-love, or any other variety of self-centeredness. It teaches your child to deny himself, not love himself (Luke 9:23).
On Children and self-esteem, he is wrong.
Actually, I think he is dead on target. Why do you think he is wrong?
quote:
and this link too:
God's Pattern for Children, Pt.2
quote:
"Doctors, if they believe they have found a treatment, do not pretend to fully comprehend the disorder. For now, scientists now ADHD is not the result of brain damage, it is not the result of wrong diet...listen to this...and they're sure it's not the result of bad parenting." You know what bad parenting is? Spanking your child.
Wrong again. While there is a problem, he is surely throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
(edited to better point to links indicated.)
Does science and psychology trump the Word of God?
No it doesn't. But John takes one verse in Proverbs and runs with it. Forgets that the scriptures show us of a Father with arms wide open when we fail.
Um, maybe Jesus words might just trump those words.
So, we don't sin? Our children don't sin?
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
|
|
|
|
|
RE: John MacArthur - 9/5/2008 6:31:10 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2788
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
I've always thought the concept of "self-esteem" ran counter to Scripture. Most of my Christian friends thought I was nuts. When I finally heard MacArthur teach on it, he said basically the same things I'd seen through my personal Bible Study. Maybe he reads the same Bible I read.
Our "self-esteem" must be based on our identity in Christ, nothing more nothing less. The current "self-esteem" that is taught in the educational system has produced nothing but self-absorbed narcisists.
Score cannot be kept in a game, b/c to lose a game would cause a child to loose self-esteem. In the same manner everyone must be given a throphy or the honor roll cannot be posted b/c not to make the roll would cause a child to feel inferior about herself.
By basing our indentity in Christ we know that we are victors instead of victims. We know that JC is not ashamed to call us his brothers and sisters. We know we have been transfered from the Kindom of Darkness to the Kingdom of Light.
Teaching directly from the Bible seems harsh b/c it directly counters the teachings of the systems of the world. In too much of the church, in an attempt to be loved by the world, have reduced the authoritive nature of Scripture to just a self-improvement project.
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
