RE: Christian Homeschool Mom for Ron Paul, not Huckabee *Video*
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RE: Christian Homeschool Mom for Ron Paul, not Huckabee... - 1/29/2008 10:51:31 PM
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stamper_ben
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I have a question.
As the Texas primary is coming up in a few weeks, Ron Paul is running radio ads here in Houston. (Of course they can be confusing because he is also running for his congressional seat at the same time.) One of his points in the ad is that children of illegals shouldn't be able to become citizens.
Now, he touts the Constitution, and there has been discussion with his supporters in these threads about how the Constitution is fine just as it currently is.
So my question is - How do you change the law of the land to deny citizenship to some without changing the Constitution?
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RE: Christian Homeschool Mom for Ron Paul, not Huckabee... - 1/30/2008 11:53:30 AM
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thomas2008
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You've got to ask the question, how do the children of illegals get here? Are the illegals here and the children are born here? Well, in that case, no they shouldn't get citizenship. We can't give free rides. Are the children dropped off and left at the border by the parents?
If people are here illegally then they need to go back home, I'm sorry, this includes their children. Our system doesn't need anymore baggage. Now if the children had family members here who are legal and want seek adoption, then I have no problem with that, our government doesn't need to start foster home of illegals kids...
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Thomas Winters
quote:
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence -- it is force." - George Washington
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RE: Christian Homeschool Mom for Ron Paul, not Huckabee... - 1/30/2008 12:15:46 PM
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TheosCentric
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Here is the 14th Amendment: section 1 -- http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment14/
Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Ron Paul's take on birthright citizenship:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul346.html
A recent article in the Houston Chronicle discusses the problem of so-called anchor babies, children born in U.S. hospitals to illegal immigrant parents. These children automatically become citizens, and thus serve as an anchor for their parents to remain in the country. Our immigration authorities understandably are reluctant to break up families by deporting parents of young babies. But birthright citizenship, originating in the 14th amendment, has become a serious cultural and economic dilemma for our nation.
In some Houston hospitals, administrators estimate that 70 or 80% of the babies born have parents who are in the country illegally. As an obstetrician in south Texas for several decades, I can attest to the severity of the problem. It’s the same story in California, Arizona, and New Mexico. And the truth is most illegal immigrants who have babies in U.S. hospitals do not have health insurance and do not pay their hospital bills.
This obviously cannot be sustained, either by the hospitals involved or the taxpayers who end up paying the bills.
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RE: Christian Homeschool Mom for Ron Paul, not Huckabee... - 1/30/2008 12:20:36 PM
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stamper_ben
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That was a side-step of the question Tom. I understand if the border is solid as a rock and unpenetrable that children born to illegals wouldn't be a problem. But Paul makes his point in the advertisement separate from that issue. He talks about ending birthright citizenship. How does that happen with the Constitution as it is?
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 12:22:08 PM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
Here is the 14th Amendment: section 1 -- http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment14/
Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Ron Paul's take on birthright citizenship:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul346.html
A recent article in the Houston Chronicle discusses the problem of so-called anchor babies, children born in U.S. hospitals to illegal immigrant parents. These children automatically become citizens, and thus serve as an anchor for their parents to remain in the country. Our immigration authorities understandably are reluctant to break up families by deporting parents of young babies. But birthright citizenship, originating in the 14th amendment, has become a serious cultural and economic dilemma for our nation.
In some Houston hospitals, administrators estimate that 70 or 80% of the babies born have parents who are in the country illegally. As an obstetrician in south Texas for several decades, I can attest to the severity of the problem. It’s the same story in California, Arizona, and New Mexico. And the truth is most illegal immigrants who have babies in U.S. hospitals do not have health insurance and do not pay their hospital bills.
This obviously cannot be sustained, either by the hospitals involved or the taxpayers who end up paying the bills.
So is the Constitution to be changed?
< Message edited by stamper_ben -- 1/30/2008 12:28:31 PM >
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 12:55:38 PM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
I’ve introduced legislation that would amend the Constitution and end automatic birthright citizenship. The 14th amendment was ratified in 1868, on the heels of the Civil War. The country, especially the western territories, was wide open and ripe for homesteading. There was no welfare state to exploit, and the modern problems associated with immigration could not have been imagined.
Our founders knew that unforeseen problems with our system of government would arise, and that’s precisely why they gave us a method for amending the Constitution. It’s time to rethink birthright citizenship by amending the 14th amendment. from Paul's website...
Yes, we have the ability to amend the Constitution. But there are several ways to do this. Is Paul proposing to send legislation to the states for ratification? Or is he proposing to "informally" amend it by changing the way the 14th amendment is interpreted through this legislation that has been introduced by him?
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 1:30:21 PM
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TheosCentric
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He's proposing an amendment for the states to ratify, as far as I can tell. That's what amendments are. Mississippi didn't ratify the 14th amendment until Mar. 16, 1995. It's clear that states still have rights and should be offered amendments to ratify.
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 1:56:25 PM
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stamper_ben
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The states have to act in a timely manner also. 1995 was way late for Mississippi's ratification to be of any help. 
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 2:27:41 PM
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TheosCentric
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Obviously, but how is that going to happen? States have tried to pass abortion laws, but then get shot down because of the Roe v. Wade decision (not law).
They try to pass marriage laws, but such and such state's laws override another state's laws.
Here's something regarding the whole marriage thing, and I got this from Dr. Paul. Stop the marriage licensing thing. Let the churches decide about marriage. That'll solve a whole lot of problems and get the government out of private lives.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 2:49:50 PM
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stamper_ben
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Once the states have been given the power, and the income from that power, it is difficult at best to have them just give it up. And it sure doesn't stop the issue of gay marriage. There are many "churches" out there who would be more than happy to sanctify homosexual unions.
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 3:55:08 PM
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thomas2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Once the states have been given the power, and the income from that power, it is difficult at best to have them just give it up. And it sure doesn't stop the issue of gay marriage. There are many "churches" out there who would be more than happy to sanctify homosexual unions.
I strongly believe that gay marriage is wrong. I believe that it is something that goes against God's divine plan for marriage. We do need some kind of order on this issue, however, is the job of the "federal" government to step in and mandate? I believe this issue should be left to either states or preferably to the church. Sadly, most churches today wouldn't know what the word of God says about marriage or anything of Gods word if you put their nose in it. So sadly, the state level would need to protect the sanctity of marriage.
_____________________________
Warmest Regards,
Thomas Winters
quote:
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence -- it is force." - George Washington
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 3:58:45 PM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: thomas2008
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Once the states have been given the power, and the income from that power, it is difficult at best to have them just give it up. And it sure doesn't stop the issue of gay marriage. There are many "churches" out there who would be more than happy to sanctify homosexual unions.
I strongly believe that gay marriage is wrong. I believe that it is something that goes against God's divine plan for marriage. We do need some kind of order on this issue, however, is the job of the "federal" government to step in and mandate? I believe this issue should be left to either states or preferably to the church. Sadly, most churches today wouldn't know what the word of God says about marriage or anything of Gods word if you put their nose in it. So sadly, the state level would need to protect the sanctity of marriage.
I too am strongly against gay marriage, but I think that if it was left in the hands of the churches, then there would be a lot less fuss over the issue, to begin with. How many churches do you know would actually allow gay marriage? Ron Paul has it right when he says that the federal government should not even be legislating marriage issues. States? Nah. It's always been in the hands of the church, and it should stay that way. If a church decides to institute gay marriage, then they don't know the truth and are damning themselves to Hell.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 4:05:49 PM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
If a church decides to institute gay marriage, then they don't know the truth and are damning themselves to Hell. Meanwhile, through their actions, also giving the state benefits of marriage to gays.
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 4:06:34 PM
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thomas2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
quote:
ORIGINAL: thomas2008
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Once the states have been given the power, and the income from that power, it is difficult at best to have them just give it up. And it sure doesn't stop the issue of gay marriage. There are many "churches" out there who would be more than happy to sanctify homosexual unions.
I strongly believe that gay marriage is wrong. I believe that it is something that goes against God's divine plan for marriage. We do need some kind of order on this issue, however, is the job of the "federal" government to step in and mandate? I believe this issue should be left to either states or preferably to the church. Sadly, most churches today wouldn't know what the word of God says about marriage or anything of Gods word if you put their nose in it. So sadly, the state level would need to protect the sanctity of marriage.
I too am strongly against gay marriage, but I think that if it was left in the hands of the churches, then there would be a lot less fuss over the issue, to begin with. How many churches do you know would actually allow gay marriage? Ron Paul has it right when he says that the federal government should not even be legislating marriage issues. States? Nah. It's always been in the hands of the church, and it should stay that way. If a church decides to institute gay marriage, then they don't know the truth and are damning themselves to Hell.
Well said.
_____________________________
Warmest Regards,
Thomas Winters
quote:
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence -- it is force." - George Washington
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 4:11:57 PM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
If a church decides to institute gay marriage, then they don't know the truth and are damning themselves to Hell. Meanwhile, through their actions, also giving the state benefits of marriage to gays.
Not if the state does not control marriage.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 4:17:52 PM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
If a church decides to institute gay marriage, then they don't know the truth and are damning themselves to Hell. Meanwhile, through their actions, also giving the state benefits of marriage to gays.
Not if the state does not control marriage.
And if the state does not control marriage, then who does? The feds? Who decides what unions between couples qualifies for the benefits that the state gives out to married couples?
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 4:32:00 PM
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TheosCentric
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What benefits are you talking about?
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 4:33:13 PM
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stamper_ben
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There are tax benefits, survivor benefits. Things like that.
It is not as cut and dry as RP would like to make it seem.
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 4:46:07 PM
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WormHeart
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
Here's something regarding the whole marriage thing, and I got this from Dr. Paul. Stop the marriage licensing thing. Let the churches decide about marriage. That'll solve a whole lot of problems and get the government out of private lives.
So, pagans, atheists, wiccans, spiritual native americans, buddists, shintoists, etc - these would not be able to marriage?
Churches should be the sole authority on marriage?
That seems... fair...
WormHeart
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/30/2008 4:50:10 PM
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TheosCentric
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Sorry, perhaps I hadn't thought through all that. They could get married according to their religion. If an atheist decides to get married, he can pick where he/she wants, I suppose. I'm sure someone would want to marry them. My point is that the government should not be the authority on marriage.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/31/2008 8:51:57 PM
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thomas2008
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The sad fact is that even if the President did have the Constitutional authority to ban same sex marriage, it still wouldn't stop the sin of same-sex marriage. The only thing that really change things for the better is for the churches of America who truly believe in the power of the Word of God to start preaching it in the streets. What happened to the street revivals of the old days? What happened to the sold out Billy Graham crusades? When will the church finally really get on fire for Christ? When will the church stop playing church and start being the church?
Same-sex marriages, and homosexuality can only stop when the Christians of this country start to unite. There isn't any unity with the Christian community on anything. Instead of the evangelicals wanting government to change things, how about the church start changing lives by ministering the Gospel to the world as Jesus commanded. The church wants to compromise on what being a Christian actually is. It's more than just going to church, singing the songs. We as Christians have a mission.
_____________________________
Warmest Regards,
Thomas Winters
quote:
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence -- it is force." - George Washington
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/31/2008 10:26:23 PM
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KSCrusader
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quote:
ORIGINAL: thomas2008
The sad fact is that even if the President did have the Constitutional authority to ban same sex marriage, it still wouldn't stop the sin of same-sex marriage. The only thing that really change things for the better is for the churches of America who truly believe in the power of the Word of God to start preaching it in the streets. What happened to the street revivals of the old days? What happened to the sold out Billy Graham crusades? When will the church finally really get on fire for Christ? When will the church stop playing church and start being the church?
Same-sex marriages, and homosexuality can only stop when the Christians of this country start to unite. There isn't any unity with the Christian community on anything. Instead of the evangelicals wanting government to change things, how about the church start changing lives by ministering the Gospel to the world as Jesus commanded. The church wants to compromise on what being a Christian actually is. It's more than just going to church, singing the songs. We as Christians have a mission.
WELL SAID thomas2008, well said.
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 1/31/2008 10:47:14 PM
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KSCrusader
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Can someone please tell me why people are calling Ron Paul a nut? I like things he says and agree with a lot.
It seems hes not takin serious by so many, what is it?
_____________________________
Isaiah 40:31
"Government Provided Health Care" -The compassion of the IRS, The efficency of the post office, at pentagon pricing.
We are a generation of men raised by women -Fight Club
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RE: Ron Paul seems to want to change the Constitution - 2/1/2008 6:34:22 AM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KSCrusader
Can someone please tell me why people are calling Ron Paul a nut? I like things he says and agree with a lot.
It seems hes not takin serious by so many, what is it?
The truth is offensive to many.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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