|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/8/2008 11:13:16 PM
|
|
|
Sammy_S
Posts: 460
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
|
walterquez
quote:
Dear Sammy_S, God having a righteous anger doesn't change the fact that it still is reactionary. We do something, and God reacts. And this innovation only proves we can control God, therefore it is a heretical teaching. If you want God to hate you, all you need to do is do works of iniquity, and voila, you now have God hating you. Again, this is heresy, because our actions does not affect God who is sovereign.
That is ridiculous.What you faul to understand is that God does not hate man because he sins.God hates man because he is a sinner.That is not reactionary.I am not a sinner because I sin,but rather I sin because I am a sinner.God's hates sinners not particularly because they sin but it's rather the fact that every intent of sinners(unbelievers) hearts are continually wicked.9Gen.6:5).I believe that men cannot control God so much it would probobly offend you.So that is definately not whatI am saying.I find it very laughable that you claim this fact a heresy when I am simply quoting scripture.I have not interepreted anything.And the fact that you have not adressed the clear passages leads me to believe that you are speakig of your own emotions and not God' word.Have you even provided scripture?It's very ridiculous to ignore the passages I have provided and you yourlsef not provide scripture and claim that i am speaking heresy.
quote:
We need to understand that the Holy Scripture cannot be read with a worldly mind, but only with the sound mind of Christ. Once we understand the nature of God, everything else, even if it sounds contradictory, begins to make sense.
You have to be kidding me.You think that I am reading the word of God with a wordly mind?Who in their right mind would want to believe that God hates man?!?It is you that are reading with a carnal mind since you have not confronted the scriptures I provided and are basing your belief on your own understanding and not God's word.
quote:
God's Love never changes. It is "our" perception of that Love that changes. Our Church teaches that God's Love is like a river of fire coming from His throne. Those who go with the flow, are blessed. But those who do iniquities, meaning going against the flow, or against the will of God, are fighting against a very powerful fiery river. And who can withstand the power of God?
I never said God's love changes.If it changed then i would have been in hell the moment i sinned.My point is that God hates man and that will not change unless man repents.This is all worthless if you continue to ignore the scriptures I shared.
quote:
The same Love of God to one person it is wonderful. The same Love of God to another it is a torment. It is terrible and painful. It is hate.
The only difference is us. One goes with the flow, the other against it.
Much like little children having rules to follow. One child adjusts comfortably with no problem, while another child feels his parents hate him, even though the rules is the same for all.
Sigh..ok..please just confront the passages.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/9/2008 12:05:52 AM
|
|
|
URForgiven
Posts: 383
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: walterquez
Dear Sammy_S, God having a righteous anger doesn't change the fact that it still is reactionary. We do something, and God reacts. And this innovation only proves we can control God, therefore it is a heretical teaching. If you want God to hate you, all you need to do is do works of iniquity, and voila, you now have God hating you. Again, this is heresy, because our actions does not affect God who is sovereign.
We need to understand that the Holy Scripture cannot be read with a worldly mind, but only with the sound mind of Christ. Once we understand the nature of God, everything else, even if it sounds contradictory, begins to make sense.
God's Love never changes. It is "our" perception of that Love that changes. Our Church teaches that God's Love is like a river of fire coming from His throne. Those who go with the flow, are blessed. But those who do iniquities, meaning going against the flow, or against the will of God, are fighting against a very powerful fiery river. And who can withstand the power of God?
The same Love of God to one person it is wonderful. The same Love of God to another it is a torment. It is terrible and painful. It is hate.
The only difference is us. One goes with the flow, the other against it.
Much like little children having rules to follow. One child adjusts comfortably with no problem, while another child feels his parents hate him, even though the rules is the same for all.
This is beautiful walterquez. The spirit within you shines though, and though we may not be aligned in all ways, I can see you are my brother. Peace.
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/9/2008 12:42:18 AM
|
|
|
walterquez
Posts: 1398
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
My point is that God hates man and that will not change unless man repents. How is this not a reaction? Repentance somehow changes God from hate to no hate? Sounds like we control God. This is why this kind of teaching is heresy. What we do doesn't change God.
The Love of God is the same whether you repent or not. It is our perception of God's Love that changes. If we repent, His Love will flow through us, and we will feel wonderful. But if we don't repent, the same Love of God will not flow through, because we are fighting against it. But since we don't have the power to fight against God's awesome Love, the feeling is one of hate.
Imagine trying to fight a strong current. You feel this enormous power against you. It is so strong you can't win. And the more you fight back, the more it hurts. The more you feel the wrath of the current.
But then you see this other person on the same river surfing with the wave. He doesn't feel pain, because he is not going against the current.
This may be hard for you to believe, but the Church teaches that the Lake of Fire is really the Love of God. To the people in there, it is torment, because they hate God, and want nothing to do with Him. And since they cannot avoid God, because He is omnipresent, His Love is everywhere too.
_____________________________
St. Athanasius the Great
For our Canons and our forms were not given to the Churches at the present day, but were wisely and safely transmitted to us from our forefathers.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/9/2008 1:03:13 AM
|
|
|
Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2302
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
|
Sammy_S, wow! Your posts amaze me. I mean that they're good. Thanks for sharing what you've learned.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/9/2008 1:31:06 AM
|
|
|
Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2302
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
I think that when one studies the Word of God, it is never a good idea to throw out the obvious and cling to the obscure. In order to believe in a God of hate you have to throw out the clear and substantial revelation of God as a God of love. Of a God who has given this love letter to those He has created. To see a God of hate in this love letter is rather an oxy moron.
Peace
God is God. The Bible teaches us about Him. Some people want to see the whole picture.
Romans 12
19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Isaiah 66
15 For behold, the LORD will come in fire And His chariots like the whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many.
Deuteronomy 32
43Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.
Revelation 6
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Revelation 19
2For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
John 3
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Ephesians 5
6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
I know God loves His children, but sometimes people want to pretend that He has no wrath on the children of disobedience.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/9/2008 2:26:47 AM
|
|
|
Sammy_S
Posts: 460
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
|
walterquez
quote:
How is this not a reaction? Repentance somehow changes God from hate to no hate? Sounds like we control God. This is why this kind of teaching is heresy. What we do doesn't change God.
Well,that would be the case if repentance was from ourselves.God's love for his people is manifested in salvation through the cross.Notice how you quickly called me a heretic?Want to take that back?I have been generous by not calling you a heretic long ago when you clearly avoided scripture and embraced your opinion.
quote:
The Love of God is the same whether you repent or not. It is our perception of God's Love that changes. If we repent, His Love will flow through us, and we will feel wonderful. But if we don't repent, the same Love of God will not flow through, because we are fighting against it. But since we don't have the power to fight against God's awesome Love, the feeling is one of hate.
That may sound great and tickle my ears but i would love for you to atleast provide one scripture.have you even used scripture in any of your posts?Most people who are severely off on scripture usually avoids using them.
The bible clearly disagrees with you that the Love of God is the same to unbelievers and believers.
Here is scripture:
Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.
-John 15:13
Clearly,Christ is saying that greater love it is for one to lay down his life for freinds.
Who are these frends?he explains in verse 14.
You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
Still believe that Christ loves all the same?
Again,Christ loves unbelievers too.But that love is not a love that leads to eternal life,it is love that allows them to enjoy the beauty of who God is and his creation despite their sins.But in that God still hates them as scripture says.
quote:
This may be hard for you to believe, but the Church teaches that the Lake of Fire is really the Love of God. To the people in there, it is torment, because they hate God, and want nothing to do with Him. And since they cannot avoid God, because He is omnipresent, His Love is everywhere too.
I am in awe that your christianity does not involve SCRIPTURE.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/9/2008 10:49:17 AM
|
|
|
OneDrop
Posts: 26
Joined: 3/17/2008
Status: offline
|
walterquez,
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
If I was at a baseball game with my child of 4 years old and a man in front of us in the bleacher layed his hotdog and coke on the bench to cheer for his team...the four year old seeing the hotdog and takes a bite out of it. When the man sees what goes on and forgives the youngster because of the love for youngsters...it is grace from the man. However, if that child was 18 years old and did take the hotdog, it would be evil for the 18 year old should have learn grace on his own and the man would hate what he did.
When we become grown, things are required of us.
As Jesus was telling the parable of the pounds in Luke 19:27 and was talking of himself: "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reigh over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." Jesus hated his enemies (the ones that would not let him be Lord of their lives) for he wanted them slayed before him.
Killing someone is to hate. I does not bring life but death. The one that is being hated, knows what hate is. The one that is being loved, knows what love is.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/9/2008 1:41:21 PM
|
|
|
Sammy_S
Posts: 460
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
Sammy_S, wow! Your posts amaze me. I mean that they're good. Thanks for sharing what you've learned.
Thank you so much,I really enjoy your posts as well!
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/20/2008 3:50:13 AM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 1831
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: walterquez
This may be hard for you to believe, but the Church teaches that the Lake of Fire is really the Love of God. To the people in there, it is torment, because they hate God, and want nothing to do with Him. And since they cannot avoid God, because He is omnipresent, His Love is everywhere too.
Just when you think you've seen/read it all you find something like this... What church teaches this?
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/20/2008 4:27:33 PM
|
|
|
walterquez
Posts: 1398
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
Dear SovereignIsHe, God is a sovereign God. It doesn't make sense for a sovereign God to have hate. It contradicts His sovereignty. A sovereign God is "not" affected by anything, whether it be righteous or otherwise. He remains the same. He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Hate is only possessed by someone who have lost control, even if a little. It makes no difference if the hate is a righteous one or not, it is still a show of loss of control of the other, otherwise why would one have hate?
Again, God is sovereign. And to believe God can possess hate, is to deny His sovereignty.
_____________________________
St. Athanasius the Great
For our Canons and our forms were not given to the Churches at the present day, but were wisely and safely transmitted to us from our forefathers.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/20/2008 5:30:04 PM
|
|
|
1love1God1way
Posts: 1733
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: walterquez
Dear SovereignIsHe, God is a sovereign God. It doesn't make sense for a sovereign God to have hate. It contradicts His sovereignty. A sovereign God is "not" affected by anything, whether it be righteous or otherwise. He remains the same. He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Hate is only possessed by someone who have lost control, even if a little. It makes no difference if the hate is a righteous one or not, it is still a show of loss of control of the other, otherwise why would one have hate?
Again, God is sovereign. And to believe God can possess hate, is to deny His sovereignty.
God is unable to have hatred without losing control?
I didn't realize he was so subordinate to His own emotions. . .
_____________________________
-Ben-
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/20/2008 6:25:26 PM
|
|
|
walterquez
Posts: 1398
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
I don't think I have ever seen a computer programmer get mad at his creation if he had complete control of it. It is when he does "not" have complete control, maybe because there is another force out there beyond his control that he would get angry.
If you can make someone happy, you have some control of that person. If you can make them angry, you have some control. If God's emotion, no matter how small, depends on what you do, then you have some control.
_____________________________
St. Athanasius the Great
For our Canons and our forms were not given to the Churches at the present day, but were wisely and safely transmitted to us from our forefathers.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/22/2008 3:08:58 PM
|
|
|
Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2302
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: walterquez
I don't think I have ever seen a computer programmer get mad at his creation if he had complete control of it. It is when he does "not" have complete control, maybe because there is another force out there beyond his control that he would get angry.
If you can make someone happy, you have some control of that person. If you can make them angry, you have some control. If God's emotion, no matter how small, depends on what you do, then you have some control.
Now you compare God to man. I don't think God is like man.
God can change a sinner to a follower. So how can man have any control over God?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/22/2008 11:10:31 PM
|
|
|
walterquez
Posts: 1398
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
Now you compare God to man. I don't think God is like man. On the contrary, I am saying God is not like man. How could an omnipotent God be affected emotionally by what we do? If He is, how could He be God?
quote:
God can change a sinner to a follower. So how can man have any control over God? The point is not about God changing us, but an implication that we can change God.
_____________________________
St. Athanasius the Great
For our Canons and our forms were not given to the Churches at the present day, but were wisely and safely transmitted to us from our forefathers.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did/does the Holy Spirit hate anyone? - 4/29/2008 12:56:32 AM
|
|
|
Sammy_S
Posts: 460
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: walterquez
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
Now you compare God to man. I don't think God is like man. On the contrary, I am saying God is not like man. How could an omnipotent God be affected emotionally by what we do? If He is, how could He be God?
quote:
God can change a sinner to a follower. So how can man have any control over God? The point is not about God changing us, but an implication that we can change God.
And here i was believing in scripture when God said"I am the Lord,I change not".You need to read more and write less.
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
