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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/30/2007 4:25:58 PM
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EverLearning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brotherbrian
What freedoms would you personally have to lose in order to give a rat's rump about the issue?
When i am forbidden to practice my religion then i will call it pesecution. Right now most of the cases i see amount to little more than an inconvenience to a believer and most times not even that, what makes you feel that you have a right to pray out loud at work or school, is your belief or faith in any way diminished when you pray silently? What makes your or my "right" to pray any more important than others "right" to not have our views pushed upon them? The fact of the matter is that being picked on is only persecution by the text book definition of the word and not at all in a common sense manner. Our savior and many of those who chose to carry the light of the Lord after his passing were beaten, spat upon, tortured, and killed and it makes me sick when i hear Christians in America complain because the feel uncomfortable in the work place. As a Christian I often feel uncomfortable in the world, that is part of living in a fallen world. I also realize that i am one of the extremely fortunate Christians in the world in that i can display my faith without fear of retribution or injury. Are there mental midgets who do attempt to persecute Christians? In a country of 300,000,000 people of all backgrounds it is inevitible that there will be but it is such a small number that, frankly, I have better things to worry about in my life. I for one will continue to proudly practice my religion and know that some will hate me, pick on me, and try to inconvenience me out of that hatred but rarely does it rise to a level worthy of any serious consideration on anyones part. In fact attempting to cry persecution at every turn only further fuels the fire and gives those morons more power over us. Noone ever said being Christian would be easy, quite the opposite in fact, but it is worth it.
Remember every minute spent with our minds on the "injustices" in life is one less minute spent in contemplation of the Glory of the Lord.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/30/2007 4:47:23 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6798
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Our savior and many of those who chose to carry the light of the Lord after his passing were beaten, spat upon, tortured, and killed and it makes me sick when i hear Christians in America complain because the feel uncomfortable in the work place.
I am not sure that the fact that someone talks about the existence of certain treatment amounts to 'complaining', particularly in a forum where we are discussing whether persecution exists.
As one who has been publicly denounced in the press for my beliefs, berated by professors, mocked publicly for not participating in typical worldly activities, thrown in a shower and had individuals throw buckets of ice on me for refusing to subsidize pornography parties with my college social dues, had vile things scribbled on my property, chased down by atheists who wanted to engage me in arguments, and had my employment threatened for things I refused to do that were contrary to my beliefs, I never felt compelled to 'complain', but instead wondered what other Christians were doing wrong that they didn't recieve the same treatment.
Nonetheless, in considering whether or not such treatment amounts to persecution, one need only think about someone being treated in the same manner for being black or female.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/30/2007 5:02:13 PM
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brotherbrian
Posts: 608
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Our savior and many of those who chose to carry the light of the Lord after his passing were beaten, spat upon, tortured, and killed and it makes me sick when i hear Christians in America complain because the feel uncomfortable in the work place.
I am not sure that the fact that someone talks about the existence of certain treatment amounts to 'complaining', particularly in a forum where we are discussing whether persecution exists.
As one who has been publicly denounced in the press for my beliefs, berated by professors, mocked publicly for not participating in typical worldly activities, thrown in a shower and had individuals throw buckets of ice on me for refusing to subsidize pornography parties with my college social dues, had vile things scribbled on my property, chased down by atheists who wanted to engage me in arguments, and had my employment threatened for things I refused to do that were contrary to my beliefs, I never felt compelled to 'complain', but instead wondered what other Christians were doing wrong that they didn't recieve the same treatment.
Nonetheless, in considering whether or not such treatment amounts to persecution, one need only think about someone being treated in the same manner for being black or female.
....or a practicing homosexual.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/30/2007 5:18:15 PM
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brotherbrian
Posts: 608
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow257
quote:
ORIGINAL: brotherbrian
There's a fine line between being allowed to wear a cross around your neck and being forced by the state to wear one around your neck for identification purposes.
Just ask some eighty year old European Jews.
LOL, that is a line a mile wide.
You might dust off your history book and do some research that will show that the persecution that culminated with the irradication of 6,000,000 Jews across Europe began with similar innocuous (by your lights) discriminations and "inconveniences".
The secular humanist anti-Christian movement in America is making a slow but concerted effort to erradicate everything that references Christianity from public view, cow.
I suppose you also would be cheering on those who would remove any vaguly Christian symbology from local government seals, as well as those who seek to force name changes for cities that have "Christian themed" names.
If such councils are successful in removing crosses and such from city seals so as not to offend the sensibilities of the unbelievers among us, is it not possible that some day there will be efforts to have crosses removed from the roofs of churches that are in full view from taxpayer funded roads and parks under the self same guise?
Sometimes the minority DOES tyranize the majority, cow.
If you don't realise that it must be because you're too young to remember the actual processes that led to Roe v Wade being made the law of the land, homosexuality being "reclassified" as an alternate lifestyle by the mental health community when ever before it had been considered a mental illness/aberration, and a few other situations I've seen over the years.
Anyone who dismisses the "Slippery Slope" theory simply won't recognize that it's a reality.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/31/2007 12:16:59 AM
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phosadaud
Posts: 8093
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Nonetheless, in considering whether or not such treatment amounts to persecution, one need only think about someone being treated in the same manner for being black or female.
But that's just it. You will find people who say and do just as many outrageous and in many cases more outrageous things to women, to blacks, to the handicapped, etc. There will always be idiots among us. That being said, I'm not going to say that women are persecuted in this country because some imbecile professor says that it's ok to rape a woman who doesn't cover her head or because my junior high math teacher told me to get all the math I could now because women just don't succeed in math or because some guy down the road won't hire a woman. Those are all wrong things, very wrong. That doesn't mean that women are "persecuted" though. That means that we live in the world where people do slimy things to people. Do those things make me mad? Absolutely! Should we address those issues and fight against them? Absolutely! Does that mean I should use the same term used to describe how women are treated by the Taliban and use it to describe the US because some people in the US are jerks? NO! It's not the same thing, so let's not describe it in the same way!
_____________________________
~Kristin~
The easily offended...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/31/2007 1:16:02 AM
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wing2000
Posts: 885
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quote:
When i am forbidden to practice my religion then i will call it pesecution. Right now most of the cases i see amount to little more than an inconvenience to a believer and most times not even that, what makes you feel that you have a right to pray out loud at work or school, is your belief or faith in any way diminished when you pray silently? What makes your or my "right" to pray any more important than others "right" to not have our views pushed upon them?
Exactly.
It's called puluralsim folks...and it's worked for over 200 hundred years...
I really don't understand why some people expect the State to favor their specific religion.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/31/2007 1:23:28 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 6798
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quote:
Exactly.
It's called puluralsim folks...and it's worked for over 200 hundred years...
I really don't understand why some people expect the State to favor their specific religion.
Exactly - I have never understood why secularists expect that.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/31/2007 1:29:19 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 6798
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
But that's just it. You will find people who say and do just as many outrageous and in many cases more outrageous things to women, to blacks, to the handicapped, etc. There will always be idiots among us. That being said, I'm not going to say that women are persecuted in this country because some imbecile professor says that it's ok to rape a woman who doesn't cover her head or because my junior high math teacher told me to get all the math I could now because women just don't succeed in math or because some guy down the road won't hire a woman. Those are all wrong things, very wrong. That doesn't mean that women are "persecuted" though. That means that we live in the world where people do slimy things to people. Do those things make me mad? Absolutely! Should we address those issues and fight against them? Absolutely! Does that mean I should use the same term used to describe how women are treated by the Taliban and use it to describe the US because some people in the US are jerks? NO! It's not the same thing, so let's not describe it in the same way!
What exactly do you consider persecution to mean? The dictionary definition is:
To oppress or harass with ill-treatment, especially because of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs.
I think we can safely say the some Christians are persecuted in America, without having to say all are.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/31/2007 11:58:08 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3749
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brotherbrian
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow257
quote:
ORIGINAL: brotherbrian
There's a fine line between being allowed to wear a cross around your neck and being forced by the state to wear one around your neck for identification purposes.
Just ask some eighty year old European Jews.
LOL, that is a line a mile wide.
You might dust off your history book and do some research that will show that the persecution that culminated with the irradication of 6,000,000 Jews across Europe began with similar innocuous (by your lights) discriminations and "inconveniences".
The secular humanist anti-Christian movement in America is making a slow but concerted effort to erradicate everything that references Christianity from public view, cow.
I suppose you also would be cheering on those who would remove any vaguly Christian symbology from local government seals, as well as those who seek to force name changes for cities that have "Christian themed" names.
If such councils are successful in removing crosses and such from city seals so as not to offend the sensibilities of the unbelievers among us, is it not possible that some day there will be efforts to have crosses removed from the roofs of churches that are in full view from taxpayer funded roads and parks under the self same guise?
Sometimes the minority DOES tyranize the majority, cow.
If you don't realise that it must be because you're too young to remember the actual processes that led to Roe v Wade being made the law of the land, homosexuality being "reclassified" as an alternate lifestyle by the mental health community when ever before it had been considered a mental illness/aberration, and a few other situations I've seen over the years.
Anyone who dismisses the "Slippery Slope" theory simply won't recognize that it's a reality.
Go back and read your post. Since when is being allowed to wear a cross persecution? Maybe you meant NOT being allowed to wear a cross.
BTW I'm old enough to remember Roe v Wade. The difference is that the majority (assuming pro life is the majority) has not been forced to do anything. Roe v Wade simply limited restrictions on abortion. You confuse persecution with social policy and jurisprudence. In China, where families are forced to limit families-- that is persecution.
_____________________________
Wenn zuerst Sie nicht gelingen, Versuch, versuch wieder. Geben Sie dann auf. Es gibt keinen punkt, in ein zu sein, verdammt Narren darum. -- W. C. Fields
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/31/2007 12:16:23 PM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1588
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow257
BTW I'm old enough to remember Roe v Wade. The difference is that the majority (assuming pro life is the majority) has not been forced to do anything. Roe v Wade simply limited restrictions on abortion. You confuse persecution with social policy and jurisprudence. In China, where families are forced to limit families-- that is persecution.
I dont' know how roe vs. wade is persecution to anyone but the unborn. It is not persecution to not accept the tenets of Christian faith. Persecution is an action not an inaction. A person doing something that is outside of the beliefs of Christians is not persecuting Christians. The day that someone calls for churches to not display Christian symbology then I will begin to cry persecution. The inability to display Christian symbols on a government building is not persecution, the inability to display them on our homes or our churches would be.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/31/2007 3:52:05 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 8093
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
But that's just it. You will find people who say and do just as many outrageous and in many cases more outrageous things to women, to blacks, to the handicapped, etc. There will always be idiots among us. That being said, I'm not going to say that women are persecuted in this country because some imbecile professor says that it's ok to rape a woman who doesn't cover her head or because my junior high math teacher told me to get all the math I could now because women just don't succeed in math or because some guy down the road won't hire a woman. Those are all wrong things, very wrong. That doesn't mean that women are "persecuted" though. That means that we live in the world where people do slimy things to people. Do those things make me mad? Absolutely! Should we address those issues and fight against them? Absolutely! Does that mean I should use the same term used to describe how women are treated by the Taliban and use it to describe the US because some people in the US are jerks? NO! It's not the same thing, so let's not describe it in the same way!
What exactly do you consider persecution to mean? The dictionary definition is:
To oppress or harass with ill-treatment, especially because of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs.
I think we can safely say the some Christians are persecuted in America, without having to say all are.
The problem with the dictionary definition is that depending on how you interpret it, everyone on this planet is persecuted. Was I "persecuted" because in 3rd grade I was called "pee-wee hotshot" by 3 kids in my class because I defended the "nerds" in the class from their teasing? That would fit the dictionary definition.
I think my point is, calling it persecution anytime anyone on this planet does or says something wrong to us, dilutes the meaning of the term. The term persecute is one that gets attention and provokes shock and outrage. It shouldn't be used willy-nilly, even if the dictionary definition "works". To do so, dimishes the real horror that IS out there in the world.
So, I will continue to say that there are people out there who do bad things to Christians in this nation and it's wrong and it needs to stop. And I will reserve the use of the term persecution for my brothers and sisters around the world who fear imprisonment or death for having "church". To compare the 2 by using the identical term to describe them leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
The easily offended...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/31/2007 4:30:50 PM
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brotherbrian
Posts: 608
Joined: 3/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow257
quote:
ORIGINAL: brotherbrian
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow257
quote:
ORIGINAL: brotherbrian
There's a fine line between being allowed to wear a cross around your neck and being forced by the state to wear one around your neck for identification purposes.
Just ask some eighty year old European Jews.
LOL, that is a line a mile wide.
You might dust off your history book and do some research that will show that the persecution that culminated with the irradication of 6,000,000 Jews across Europe began with similar innocuous (by your lights) discriminations and "inconveniences".
The secular humanist anti-Christian movement in America is making a slow but concerted effort to erradicate everything that references Christianity from public view, cow.
I suppose you also would be cheering on those who would remove any vaguly Christian symbology from local government seals, as well as those who seek to force name changes for cities that have "Christian themed" names.
If such councils are successful in removing crosses and such from city seals so as not to offend the sensibilities of the unbelievers among us, is it not possible that some day there will be efforts to have crosses removed from the roofs of churches that are in full view from taxpayer funded roads and parks under the self same guise?
Sometimes the minority DOES tyranize the majority, cow.
If you don't realise that it must be because you're too young to remember the actual processes that led to Roe v Wade being made the law of the land, homosexuality being "reclassified" as an alternate lifestyle by the mental health community when ever before it had been considered a mental illness/aberration, and a few other situations I've seen over the years.
Anyone who dismisses the "Slippery Slope" theory simply won't recognize that it's a reality.
Go back and read your post. Since when is being allowed to wear a cross persecution? Maybe you meant NOT being allowed to wear a cross.
BTW I'm old enough to remember Roe v Wade. The difference is that the majority (assuming pro life is the majority) has not been forced to do anything. Roe v Wade simply limited restrictions on abortion. You confuse persecution with social policy and jurisprudence. In China, where families are forced to limit families-- that is persecution.
The analogy about being ALLOWED to wear a cross, then being MADE to wear a cross is a clear reference to the Jews who were forced to wear a Star of David on their clothes in Nazi Germany as a means of identification as to who were to be ostracised and discriminated against.
As for Roe v Wade, in no way was "any time, any reason" legalized abortion wanted by the vast majority of Americans in 1973. NO way.
The courts enacted this horrible law against the will of the majority--hence, the tyranny of the minority.
State sanctioned persecutory laws against Christians could be passed just as easily.
For a guy who seems to distrust the government to no small degree, you sure are trusting of them protecting the rights of Christians, Cow.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/31/2007 5:45:40 PM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1588
Joined: 5/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brotherbrian
As for Roe v Wade, in no way was "any time, any reason" legalized abortion wanted by the vast majority of Americans in 1973. NO way.
The courts enacted this horrible law against the will of the majority--hence, the tyranny of the minority.
How does this rise to the level of persecution though? Just because someone does something you don't agree with does not make it persecution.
quote:
State sanctioned persecutory laws against Christians could be passed just as easily.
Actually seeing as how we have that nifty little constitution I think we have a little protection.
quote:
For a guy who seems to distrust the government to no small degree, you sure are trusting of them protecting the rights of Christians, Cow.
Well seeing as how 200+ years of history reveal our rights as Christians still intact i think we have reason to be trustful to the degree that our actual rights, not what we want but our actual rights, will not be infringed upon when it comes to the free practice of our religion.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/31/2007 5:57:07 PM
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brotherbrian
Posts: 608
Joined: 3/6/2007
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You think the Constitution can protect us in the face of a revisionist Supreme Court, and secular humanism being the only "religion" being touted by the influential, and Christians being the "Ugly American" du jour?
My--you ARE a trusting soul.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/31/2007 6:07:42 PM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1588
Joined: 5/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brotherbrian
You think the Constitution can protect us in the face of a revisionist Supreme Court, and secular humanism being the onlt "religion" being touted by the influential, and Christians being the "ugly American" du jour?
My--you are a trusting soul.
I am a trusting soul, i trust wholely in my Lord Jesus. A revisionist supreme court? We have the protection of the constitution always on our side, it is up to us to ensure that it is never stripped from us. Now onto how that affects us as Christians, our right to assemble and to practice our religion has remained untouched yet we whine because we aren't allowed to show it in certain ways in governmental buildings or at work. Well we have no right to subjigate others to our ways of thinking, you cannot come into my house and act however you want and the same goes for the workplace. Now that being said you are completely free to worship as you see fit when on your own time, work is not really your own time unless you are self employed. Noone is telling you not to pray at home, not to go to church, not to live your life as a Christian. Will you meet resistance occassionally for your beliefs, if you don't then you aren't truly a believing Christian as our beliefs as Christians run counter some peoples way of thinking. How you live your life is more important than whether a cross is installed on the steps of the local courthouse or if you can pray outloud in the hallway when you should be working. Whining about inconveniences does not present us in a good light at all, complaining because not everyone agrees with us does not present us in a good light. Living our lives in such a way that we shine the light of the Lord into the world always does show us in a good light and actually helps to heal the rifts between Christians and non.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 5/31/2007 6:20:55 PM
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brotherbrian
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You trust wholy in Jesus? Do you have car insurance, and do you look both ways before crossing the street?
:)
We'll never agree because you believe that these "petty inconveniences" have gone as far as they will, and I don't--not at all.
The best defense is a good offense, and I see no reason to wait around like a bunch of Pollyannas until these "petty inconveniences" become fully blown persecutions because we were too weak-kneed to act beforehand.
As for Roe v Wade; it would have NEVER been made the law of the land if Christians of conscience had actively resisted it from the jump in an effective way.
Freedoms worth keeping are worth protecting.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 6/1/2007 12:01:11 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 6798
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
The best defense is a good offense, and I see no reason to wait around like a bunch of Pollyannas until these "petty inconveniences" become fully blown persecutions because we were too weak-kneed to act beforehand.
This is actually an excellent thought; we our for the time blessed in our country with liberty and representative democracy - we need vigilance to maintain them.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Persecution in America? - 6/1/2007 11:22:40 AM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1588
Joined: 5/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brotherbrian
You trust wholy in Jesus? Do you have car insurance, and do you look both ways before crossing the street?
:)
you said trusting soul, as far as my soul goes i trust wholy in Jesus the physical aspects of my life must be managed by me.
quote:
We'll never agree because you believe that these "petty inconveniences" have gone as far as they will, and I don't--not at all.
The best defense is a good offense, and I see no reason to wait around like a bunch of Pollyannas until these "petty inconveniences" become fully blown persecutions because we were too weak-kneed to act beforehand.
I have no doubt that at some time someone will attempt to take away our rights, but we have protections in place against such things, and as i mentioned earlier it is our job to manage our government in such a way that the bill of rights is always protected. Christians being the majority need to get off their rumps and ensure that our actual right to practice our religion is not taken away. That being said wasting time on the petty things and whining only shows us as weak. Defend always your true rights and stop whining about inconveniences that do not affect your ability to practice your religion.
quote:
As for Roe v Wade; it would have NEVER been made the law of the land if Christians of conscience had actively resisted it from the jump in an effective way.
That may very well be true but the fact of the matter is that roe v wade is not persecution of Christians so i don't know why it keeps being brought up here. it in no way hampers your ability to practice your religion as you see fit, you are not required to participate in, have, or perform abortions. You can't get tossed out of your job for not having one, you can not be denied access to housing, healthcare, college entrance or anything else for not participating.
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RE: Persecution in America? - 6/1/2007 1:24:26 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3749
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brotherbrian
As for Roe v Wade, in no way was "any time, any reason" legalized abortion wanted by the vast majority of Americans in 1973. NO way.
The courts enacted this horrible law against the will of the majority--hence, the tyranny of the minority.
State sanctioned persecutory laws against Christians could be passed just as easily.
For a guy who seems to distrust the government to no small degree, you sure are trusting of them protecting the rights of Christians, Cow.
The courts do not enact laws. The Supreme Court rules on cases to interpret laws in light of the constitution. I'm not endorsing the Roe decision, just pointing out that it is not a law. Since then laws with respect to abortion have been enacted to limit abortions and the court recently upheld the partial birth ban.
A republic involves majority decisions, but is not exclusively rule by majority. Otherwise there would still be widespread legal racial discrimination. I do trust the "checks and balances" system to take care of things overall. That does not mean instant gratification, nor me getting everything done my way. you misunderstand the way government functions in the US.
_____________________________
Wenn zuerst Sie nicht gelingen, Versuch, versuch wieder. Geben Sie dann auf. Es gibt keinen punkt, in ein zu sein, verdammt Narren darum. -- W. C. Fields
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RE: Persecution in America? - 6/1/2007 1:45:38 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6798
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
The courts do not enact laws. The Supreme Court rules on cases to interpret laws in light of the constitution. I'm not endorsing the Roe decision, just pointing out that it is not a law. Since then laws with respect to abortion have been enacted to limit abortions and the court recently upheld the partial birth ban.
A republic involves majority decisions, but is not exclusively rule by majority. Otherwise there would still be widespread legal racial discrimination. I do trust the "checks and balances" system to take care of things overall. That does not mean instant gratification, nor me getting everything done my way. you misunderstand the way government functions in the US.
Cow is right - the court didn't act legislatively, but rather by making up a hitherto unknown 'right'.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Persecution in America? - 6/1/2007 2:11:00 PM
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cow451
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ORIGINAL: Jhud
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The courts do not enact laws. The Supreme Court rules on cases to interpret laws in light of the constitution. I'm not endorsing the Roe decision, just pointing out that it is not a law. Since then laws with respect to abortion have been enacted to limit abortions and the court recently upheld the partial birth ban.
A republic involves majority decisions, but is not exclusively rule by majority. Otherwise there would still be widespread legal racial discrimination. I do trust the "checks and balances" system to take care of things overall. That does not mean instant gratification, nor me getting everything done my way. you misunderstand the way government functions in the US.
Cow is right - the court didn't act legislatively, but rather by making up a hitherto unknown 'right'.
Privacy? Never heard of it.
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Wenn zuerst Sie nicht gelingen, Versuch, versuch wieder. Geben Sie dann auf. Es gibt keinen punkt, in ein zu sein, verdammt Narren darum. -- W. C. Fields
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RE: Persecution in America? - 6/1/2007 2:14:12 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6798
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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Privacy? Never heard of it.
Well, yes, that one is made up too, but Roe goes much farther than that. Even liberal scholars (of which my old Constitutional Law professor was one) agree Roe was really badly argued law.
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Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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