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RE: Israel in the News - 8/20/2007 11:01:47 AM
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ken1906_4
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Then it seems our attention should be on Egypt rather than Israel.
But that wouldn't fit in with any anti-Zionist agenda, would it?
Who is being anti-Israel?
Why is this any different than what happen in Nazi Germany?
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/20/2007 11:08:23 AM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
Who is being anti-Israel? I said anti-Zionist, which is a major thrust of many of the posts here.
quote:
Why is this any different than what happen in Nazi Germany? Why don't you tell us how it is the same as what happened in Nazi Germany.
And I notice you don't address the question of why our attention shouldn't be focused on Egypt.
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/20/2007 12:00:18 PM
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ken1906_4
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quote:
I said anti-Zionist, which is a major thrust of many of the posts here.
Ok, that's nice, but that is not the reason I posted this.
quote:
Why don't you tell us how it is the same as what happened in Nazi Germany.
The Jews trying to fleeing to other countries to avoid what eventually became death camps. The Darfurians/Sudaness fleeing to other countries (Egypt, Chad, Israel, etc.) because of the ongoing genocide.
Different circumstances, but same potential result which is the elimination of a group of people.
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"Choosing between Republicans and Democrats is like choosing between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Both are enemies of Christ."
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/20/2007 12:15:21 PM
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stamper_ben
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And what about Libya, Algeria, Jordan? Where's the pressure for those countries to take in the refugees? Why is the thrust of the article in question and the news reporting in general always on Israel to take them in?
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/20/2007 12:48:19 PM
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ken1906_4
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
And what about Libya, Algeria, Jordan? Where's the pressure for those countries to take in the refugees? Why is the thrust of the article in question and the news reporting in general always on Israel to take them in?
Because Israeli’s (Jews) of all people should be able sympathize on what's going with the Sudanese/Darfurian people. Others tried to helped them in their time of need, why not give that same type of help to others who are in a similar situation instead of turning them back. What's happening in Sudan is genocide and has the potential to go down in history as a holocaust. If any group of people should understand that then it's the Jews.
I don't care about the beef people here have against Israel, but what I do care about is what's going on with the elimination the Darfurian people.
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"Choosing between Republicans and Democrats is like choosing between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Both are enemies of Christ."
True colors are being revealed
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/20/2007 1:09:34 PM
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stamper_ben
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And so where is the UN in all this? Isn't this what they are in existence for?
As for Israel, they are in a perpetual state of war with their surrounding neighbors. It would be foolish and suicidal to let in masses of undocumented refugees at this time. I am sure there are many Jews who anguish at the suffering of the Sudanese/Darfuians. But they do have their own state security to look out for at this time.
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/22/2007 9:03:12 AM
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TheosCentric
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Just wanted to iterate the following:
United Nations Security Council Resolution 242
The Security Council;
Expressing its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,
Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,
Emphasizing further that all Member States in their acceptance of the Charter of the United Nations have undertaken a commitment to act in accordance with Article 2 of the Charter,
1. Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:
(i) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii)Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;
2. Affirms further the necessity
(a) For guaranteeing freedom of navigation through international waterways in the area;
(b) For achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem;
(c) For guaranteeing the territorial inviolability and political independence of every State in the area, through measures including the establishment of demilitarized zones;
3. Requests the Secretary General to designate a Special Representative to proceed to the Middle East to establish and maintain contacts with the States concerned in order to promote agreement and assist efforts to achieve a peaceful and accepted settlement in accordance with the provisions and principles in this resolution;
4. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Security Council on the progress of the efforts of the Special Representative as soon as possible.
And...
Camp David Accords
The Camp David Accords
The Framework for Peace in the Middle East
Muhammad Anwar al-Sadat, President of the Arab Republic of Egypt, and Menachem Begin, Prime Minister of Israel, met with Jimmy Carter, President of the United States of America, at Camp David from September 5 to September 17, 1978, and have agreed on the following framework for peace in the Middle East. They invite other parties to the Arab-Israel conflict to adhere to it.
Preamble
The search for peace in the Middle East must be guided by the following:
* The agreed basis for a peaceful settlement of the conflict between Israel and its neighbors is United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, in all its parts.
* After four wars during 30 years, despite intensive human efforts, the Middle East, which is the cradle of civilization and the birthplace of three great religions, does not enjoy the blessings of peace. The people of the Middle East yearn for peace so that the vast human and natural resources of the region can be turned to the pursuits of peace and so that this area can become a model for coexistence and cooperation among nations.
* The historic initiative of President Sadat in visiting Jerusalem and the reception accorded to him by the parliament, government and people of Israel, and the reciprocal visit of Prime Minister Begin to Ismailia, the peace proposals made by both leaders, as well as the warm reception of these missions by the peoples of both countries, have created an unprecedented opportunity for peace which must not be lost if this generation and future generations are to be spared the tragedies of war.
* The provisions of the Charter of the United Nations and the other accepted norms of international law and legitimacy now provide accepted standards for the conduct of relations among all states.
* To achieve a relationship of peace, in the spirit of Article 2 of the United Nations Charter, future negotiations between Israel and any neighbor prepared to negotiate peace and security with it are necessary for the purpose of carrying out all the provisions and principles of Resolutions 242 and 338.
* Peace requires respect for the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force. Progress toward that goal can accelerate movement toward a new era of reconciliation in the Middle East marked by cooperation in promoting economic development, in maintaining stability and in assuring security.
* Security is enhanced by a relationship of peace and by cooperation between nations which enjoy normal relations. In addition, under the terms of peace treaties, the parties can, on the basis of reciprocity, agree to special security arrangements such as demilitarized zones, limited armaments areas, early warning stations, the presence of international forces, liaison, agreed measures for monitoring and other arrangements that they agree are useful.
I wanted to post all of the Camp David Accords, but I wasn't sure about TOS information. Anyway, the basis of the Accords is U.N. Resolution 242 which Israel has yet to comply with. Instead, Israel has annexed the Golan Heights and has increased settlements in the West Bank since then and has also annexed East Jerusalem. All against the accords and the U.N. resolution.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/22/2007 9:05:41 AM
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stamper_ben
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And the Kassams just keep raining down...
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/22/2007 9:09:27 AM
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TheosCentric
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A little dated, but telling...
Hamas: We never wanted to throw Jews in sea
Hamas leader Ismail Hanieh says group never wanted to throw Jews in sea; 'we don't hate Jews because they are Jews,' he says
Ynet
Published: 01.18.06, 01:06 / Israel News
As the Palestinian elections near, the Islamic group Hamas seems to be increasingly softening its rhetoric against Israel. A senior official of the group sworn to Israel’s destruction said Tuesday that Hamas is not hostile to the Jews of Israel because of their ethnic and religious identity but because they occupied historic Palestine.
“Hamas is not hostile to Jews because they are Jews. We are hostile to them because they occupied our land and expelled our people,” Ismail Hanieh said.
“We did not say we want to throw the Jews in the sea or feed them to sharks. We just said that there is a land called occupied Palestine. It was burglarized and it needs to be returned to the Palestinian people,” Hanieh added.
As Hamas prepares for a strong showing in the January 25 parliamentary elections, opinion polls have forecast the party earning between 30 to 40 percent of votes, placing it only second to Mahmoud Abbas’ ruling Fatah with 40 to 50 percent.
A recent Palestinian poll published in the Boston Globe shows Hamas winning 32 percent of votes.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/22/2007 9:11:52 AM
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TheosCentric
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Palestine - The myth of “pushing them into the sea”… a Zionist invention
Also found here: Who is Pushing Whom into the Sea?
By WILLIAM MARTIN
On 11 October 1961 Israeli Prime Minister David Ben Gurion declared in the Israeli Knesset:
“‘The Arabs’ exit from Palestine…began immediately after the UN resolution, from the areas earmarked for the Jewish state. And we have explicit documents testifying that they left Palestine following instructions by the Arab leaders, with the Mufti at their head, under the assumption that the invasion of the Arab armies at the expiration of the Mandate will destroy the Jewish state and push all the Jews into the sea, dead or alive’.”
Thus, Mr Ben Gurion is asserting that it is his perception that 1) there were directions from the neighboring Arab states and the Mufti in Jerusalem for the indigenous Arabs of Palestine to evacuate their homes and lands on the promise that the Arab armies would destroy the nascent Jewish state, and, further, 2) that those armies intended to “push all the Jews into the sea, dead or alive”. The phrase “push all the Jews into the sea, dead or alive” has acquired a life of its own as it is invoked by Zionist supporters on a daily basis in order to justify the aggressive policies of Israel as well as its recalcitrance in continuing the occupation of the Palestinians of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.
It is a highly emotive phrase invoking images of the Holocaust, though adapted to a Mediterranean setting.
Mr Ben Gurion gives no attribution for this phrase, nor does he claim that it is a quote from an Arab source. It is expressed here as if it is his personal surmise as to the Arab army’s intentions.
The phrase has been variously attributed by Zionist supporters to Yasser Arafat, Gamel Abdul Nasser, or any other of Israel’s enemies, but none whom I have challenged, including U S Congressman Henry Waxman who made the claim in a letter to me, attributing the phrase to Nasser, have been able to provide any documentation of support for their claim. This 1961 speech certainly predates Arafat’s 1968 ascension to the head of the PLO. The phrase is very much entrenched in the thinking of Israel supporters and is taken as a factual basis for an Arab intent of Genocide and of their own potential for peril.
< Message edited by ccoppenbarger -- 8/22/2007 9:21:12 AM >
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/22/2007 10:03:05 AM
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stamper_ben
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Jordan is Palestine. Palestine is Jordan.
quote:
"Palestine and Jordan are one..." said King Abdullah in 1948.
"The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan," said King Hussein of Jordan, in 1981.
Let's closely examine the facts of history from the Arab perspective, rather than the Jewish one, regarding Jordan and Palestine.
"Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is only one land, with one history and one and the same fate," Prince Hassan of the Jordanian National Assembly was quoted as saying on February 2, 1970.
Accordingly, Abdul Hamid Sharif, Prime Minister of Jordan declared, in 1980, "The Palestinians and Jordanians do not belong to different nationalities. They hold the same Jordanian passports, are Arabs and have the same Jordanian culture."
For more reading on the subject...
Meanwhile the Kassams just keep raining down.
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/23/2007 6:19:40 AM
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EverLearning
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quote:
* Peace requires respect for the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force. Progress toward that goal can accelerate movement toward a new era of reconciliation in the Middle East marked by cooperation in promoting economic development, in maintaining stability and in assuring security.
From the camp david accords with a similar phrase in article 242. CC why do you not call out those who fire rockets into Israel, which is definitely a violation of these rules that you post? I will say it over and again, if Israel's neighbors want peace a good place to start is not to lob rockets at Israel.
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/23/2007 6:36:16 AM
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TheosCentric
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The rockets started as a response to Israel's continued policies of establishing more settlements, which is a violation of the U.N. resolutions and the Camp David accords. It comes down to a matter of who started what first, I suppose.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/23/2007 7:40:31 AM
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EverLearning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
The rockets started as a response to Israel's continued policies of establishing more settlements, which is a violation of the U.N. resolutions and the Camp David accords. It comes down to a matter of who started what first, I suppose.
How many Israeli settlements that you speak of were in the land that came under Israeli control under the cease fire agreement to end the 1967 six day war? How many have been dismantled since the camp david peace accords? There have been many israeli settlements dismantled since camp david. Yet the rockets fall. Even recently we have seen the Israeli army removing Israelis from settlements.
If these groups want peace they will stop firing rockets into Israel. The thing is they don't want peace and just dismatling the settlements.
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/23/2007 8:20:41 AM
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TheosCentric
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The only settlements that have been dismantled have been Gaza, whereas, the annexation continues in the West Bank.
The violence continues because Israel has not followed through on the Camp David Accords.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/23/2007 8:33:04 AM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
The only settlements that have been dismantled have been Gaza, whereas, the annexation continues in the West Bank.
The violence continues because Israel has not followed through on the Camp David Accords.
Why do you continue to ignore the facts?
Israeli police remove settlers from West Bank
Meanwhile the Kassams keep raining down...
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/23/2007 8:48:59 AM
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TheosCentric
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You're talking about squatters who weren't supposed to be there anyway. The same happened in Hebron. These were extreme cases and I applaud Israel for taking steps to remove them.
What about the annexation of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights? That is intentional breaking of international law. Violence is supposed to stop while annexation continues?
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/23/2007 9:23:36 AM
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stamper_ben
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The numbers seem to show that it was more than "squatters"...
quote:
Israel's 243,000 settlers have traditionally wielded influence far in excess of their numbers. Settlers have set up scores of unauthorized outposts throughout the West Bank, and some extremists have attacked Palestinians without being punished.
From USA Today
Spin it however you want Chris, but the giving of "land for peace" HAS been given a try.
And the Kassams keep raining down.
Seems one side doesn't want peace.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/23/2007 10:14:40 AM
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EverLearning
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
What about the annexation of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights? That is intentional breaking of international law. Violence is supposed to stop while annexation continues?
Which are places that Israel gained in pushing foreign invaders from the land when they defended themselves in 67. These are areas that were used strategically to attack Israel and leaving them to the hands of Israels enemies would have been foolish.
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/23/2007 1:32:27 PM
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stamper_ben
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quote:
The Fatah terrorist group claimed responsibility for a shooting attack in Ramallah on IDF soldiers Thursday morning following a declaration that a deal made with the Olmert government is over.
The Fatah-affiliated Al-Aksa Brigades, 178 of whose members were awarded amnesty by the Olmert government, announced Wednesday that it was backing out of its commitment to refrain from attacks.
Link
Also...
quote:
UN Envoy: Israel Needs to do More
The UN’s Middle East Envoy Michael Williams said Wednesday that Israel must take more “far-reaching steps” in order to improve Fatah chief Mahmoud Abbas’s standing among the PA Arab public. Williams called the release of 250 terrorists and the amnesty granted to Al-Aksa Brigades terrorists a “positive sign” but insisted: “I’d like to see further steps.” How laughable! It's up to Israel to improve the standing of an ineffectual PA leader?
Well, that's the UN for you....
And lastly, the rockets keep on raining. quote:
Fatah in Gaza Declares Rocket War on Israel
Al-Aksa Brigades terrorists in Gaza have announced that they are starting to launch hundreds of rockets and mortar shells at Israeli towns and cities.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Israel in the News - 8/24/2007 1:20:41 PM
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stamper_ben
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A part of the War for Independence you probably never heard before.
The Machal Story
Mitnadvei Hutz La'Aretz, Hebrew for Volunteers from Outside Israel
or as some of the Israeli fighters would say,
"Meshuga'im Mi'Hutz La'Aretz," those Crazy Guys from Outside Israel.
Go to the Machal Story link on the left of the page.
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RE: Israel in the News - 9/4/2007 9:55:03 AM
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TheosCentric
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West Bank barrier change ordered
Israel's supreme court has ordered the government to redraw the route of the West Bank barrier near Bilin village, a key focus of anti-barrier protest.
The court accepted an appeal by Bilin residents, who had argued that the barrier prevented them from reaching 50% of their agricultural land.
Weekly protests against the barrier have been held there for two years.
The Israeli government says the barrier is a security measure but Palestinians view it as an illegal land grab.
The International Court of Justice issued an advisory ruling in 2004 that the barrier breached international law where it is built on occupied territory and should be dismantled.
Correspondents say the latest ruling is an embarrassing blow to the Israeli government at a place which has come to symbolise opposition to the barrier.
"We were not convinced that it is necessary for security-military reasons to retain the current route that passes on Bilin's lands," the chief justice, Dorit Beinish, wrote.
Mr. Olmert -> "Tear down that wall!!!"
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Israel in the News - 9/4/2007 10:00:06 AM
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stamper_ben
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Rocket Lands by Israeli Day Care Centerquote:
A Palestinian rocket landed in a courtyard next to a crowded day care center on Monday, sending panicked mothers scrambling to take their screaming toddlers to safety and bringing warnings of retribution from Israeli leaders. And they keep raining down...
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RE: Israel in the News - 9/4/2007 11:06:44 AM
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TheosCentric
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And the apartheid continues
(IsraelNN.com) The British Zionist Federation cancelled a London speech by Haaretz editorial board member Danny Rubinstein following his appearance before the United Nation's Conference on Palestinians, in which he referred to Israel as an "apartheid state."
The political director of the European Coalition for Israel, Susanna Kokkonen, said she was "was most shocked to hear an editor from Haaretz condemn Israel in a way that was worse than the Arab speakers."
Rubinstein, speaking before 350 guests at the European Union's Brussels parliament building, said: "Today Israel is an apartheid state with different status for four different Palestinian groups: those in Gaza, East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Israeli Palestinians," the UN report on the conference says.
The Jewish Telegraphic Agency says Rubinstein confirmed the comment as more than mere linguistics. "I asked him if he really thought Israel was in a state of apartheid," said the reporter who spoke with him. "And he answered 'yes.'"
The ramifications of branding Israel as apartheid were outlined in several other sessions of the conference, which called for global sanctions and boycotts of the Jewish state. Rubinstein also spoke out in favor of recognizing Hamas's election victory and against the "Partition Wall."
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Israel in the News - 
By Ex. Order/Biden Booed @ Eagles Game! 
