RE: Joseph Habedank (Full Version)

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Seaton -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 10:46:24 AM)

An artist's personal life and spirituality should never be up for discussion, no matter what. But the way an artist conducts themselves on stage, IMO, is absolutely up for discussion. In an artistic medium like music (especially live stage shows/presentations), the individual taking part in that medium (the audience) has every reason to personally critique the performance they witnessed (whether good or bad).

We are making too much of what averyfineline said about the way a certain individual conducts themself on stage.



youngartist -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 10:49:30 AM)

Agreed. It should still be done in a mature manner, though.



DeeAnnBailey -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 10:59:46 AM)

I think at least for some folks the fact that some bloggers never miss an opportunity to critique negatively the same individuals over and over is a bit 'over the top'. 'Avery' falls into that category.

To put it in prespective from at least from my point of view, I'm not an Ernie Haase fan, I've stated that on occasion and even explained what I don't care for on a couple of occasions. However, many folks don't know I'm not an EH&SS fan because I don't write something negative every time I hear them or hear something about them. To do so would not lessen the positive opinions of their fans, but it could in fact paint me in a very critical light as someone with an agenda or an axe to grind. That might not be my intent but it could certainly be percieved that way.



youngartist -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 11:04:22 AM)

Agreed. I'm not a big EHSS fan either, but I've pretty much shut up about it because I don't want to be viewed as someone who's out to get them just because I'm not a fan. [;)]



Seaton -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 11:07:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeeAnnBailey

I think at least for some folks the fact that some bloggers never miss an opportunity to critique negatively the same individuals over and over is a bit 'over the top'. 'Avery' falls into that category.

To put it in prespective from at least from my point of view, I'm not an Ernie Haase fan, I've stated that on occasion and even explained what I don't care for on a couple of occasions. However, many folks don't know I'm not an EH&SS fan because I don't write something negative every time I hear them or hear something about them. To do so would not lessen the positive opinions of their fans, but it could in fact paint me in a very critical light as someone with an agenda or an axe to grind. That might not be my intent but it could certainly be percieved that way.


Good post DeeAnn,
Really great insight. That one line says it all. I hope I can follow that example when posting.



danielmount -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 12:42:03 PM)

Opinions are opinions. I wouldn't have picked "He Forgot" as a radio single, in part because I really like "Walk Away Free" and "A Day that Never Ends" and think both should go to radio--but you're not going to find me publicly or privately bashing the Perrys for doing the best they can.



sgpianoman -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 12:55:35 PM)

Well i think that Joe is doin a great job with the perry's (as is nick). I think he is coming into his own and trying to discover what works and what fits him best. There is a bit of a jump going from baritone to lead. At least he had the chance to learn from someone like Loren Harris. I have had the opportunity to hang out (even if only a short while) with various groups...some pro and some not. And most of them have a great sense of humor. After things are done, sometimes they joke around and yes they do joke around about some of the mannerisms seen in church. And yes its comical. Just because someone does something in jest doesn't mean they have no heart for God or take their ministry lightly. Cmon' we've all seen things in churches and concerts that have made us laugh.
Now i'm not a perrys fanboy...so i'm not just jumping to defense just because. None of the perrys would know me out of a lineup haha. I really enjoy the perrys and go to see them when they get near.
I think its fine that averyfineline continues with blogs and opinions, because it really gets you thinking about some things.



AmyR -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 2:24:36 PM)

Well, the daycare comment ... George joked that way when he hired Roger B., and I think it turned out just fine! [:)]

I think it is inexcusable to put out comments like those were without remembering that the person concerned is likely to see them, and any criticism necessary should be said with the same spirit as you would use in talking to that person. (BTW, I never look that blog up; some times it turns up on a Google search, but I usually don't like it then.)



youngartist -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 3:52:05 PM)

Here's my opinion: Constructive criticism = fine. Destructive criticism = not fine.



bigboytenor -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 4:30:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: youngartist

Here's my opinion: Constructive criticism = fine. Destructive criticism = not fine.



RIGHT ON!!!



Qtman -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 4:41:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigboytenor

quote:

ORIGINAL: youngartist

Here's my opinion: Constructive criticism = fine. Destructive criticism = not fine.



RIGHT ON!!!


I agree in theory. I think that only Destructive critisim is hurtful.



DOVEFAN -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 5:25:32 PM)

Joseph is AWESOME!!!

I know for a fact that a bunch of junk was said right after he moved to the lead position, but I think it was the best move the Perry's ever made! All I can say to Joseph is.... KEEP IT UP!!!!!!!!! IT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



jakecob -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 6:05:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AdamEdwards

quote:

ORIGINAL: jakecob
AH but a VAST majority of the post in the Forums are just that OPINION whether you or others like it or not. It is SO easy to be Factual when you are typing behind the scene. However that does not make it a Fact necessarily.

If we were all in the same room with the people we discuss on this Forum, 98% would not be as BOLD to say what THEY type here on the Forum.

I agree with you 100% on this. I wasn't being argumentative with you in my previous post, Jake.[;)]

Forums and blogs are typically faceless opinions. It's much easier to speak your mind when you're not face to face with people.


I knew you weren't being argumentative at all. That is why I said what I did because of our agreement.



DeeAnnBailey -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 6:53:18 PM)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: jakecob
AH but a VAST majority of the post in the Forums are just that OPINION whether you or others like it or not. It is SO easy to be Factual when you are typing behind the scene. However that does not make it a Fact necessarily.

If we were all in the same room with the people we discuss on this Forum, 98% would not be as BOLD to say what THEY type here on the Forum.


That reminds me of something my granddad used to say "If they are not man(woman) enough to say it to your face, then they are not important enough for what they say to matter to you."



lowRevelator -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 7:59:53 PM)

Pretty comical, to me, the amount of outrage sparked by a bloggers opinion.



davidpb -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/10/2007 8:50:04 PM)

Joseph is an excellent singer. People have to remember his age and how few years he has been singing professionally. He is just going to get better and better.

BTW - He also seems to be a really nice guy.



DeeAnnBailey -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/11/2007 8:03:00 AM)

I just read this in an article by Rick Hendrix on another website.

quote:

But, the termites within the industry that have nothing better to do than circle the famous and pick apart the thing they themselves cannot obtain in their own lives or careers.


I love this and it is a perfect description of my take on the blog previously discussed.



Qtman -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/11/2007 8:26:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeeAnnBailey

I just read this in an article by Rick Hendrix on another website.

quote:

But, the termites within the industry that have nothing better to do than circle the famous and pick apart the thing they themselves cannot obtain in their own lives or careers.


I love this and it is a perfect description of my take on the blog previously discussed.


That sums it up better than I have seen so far. I am in total agreement.



crazyjoe -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/11/2007 11:38:29 AM)

...I too am worried about The Perrys...I thought the transition from the "Praise God it's Settled I'm Saved" years to the Loren Harris years that the Perry's made was one of the greatest transformations a group has ever undergone....Loren Harris took The Perrys to the next level where they had a better all male quartet sound than many established quartets...I can only hope that they continue to improve back to the Loren Harris level...
...Many of your reactions to averyfineline.com's comments shows the immaturity and lack of sophistication many of you have toward the southern gospel industry...he's a lot like Simon Cowell...if you really pay attention to what he says-not just the hype-he is usually right...



encore -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/11/2007 11:53:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyjoe


...Many of your reactions to averyfineline.com's comments shows the immaturity and lack of sophistication many of you have toward the southern gospel industry...he's a lot like Simon Cowell...if you really pay attention to what he says-not just the hype-he is usually right...


Being mean-spirited and bragging about your lack of the "Jesus quotient" (as he does)....does not equal sophistication or maturity.



Qtman -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/11/2007 11:56:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: encore

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyjoe


...Many of your reactions to averyfineline.com's comments shows the immaturity and lack of sophistication many of you have toward the southern gospel industry...he's a lot like Simon Cowell...if you really pay attention to what he says-not just the hype-he is usually right...


Being mean-spirited and bragging about your lack of the "Jesus quotient" (as he does)....does not equal sophistication or maturity.



I agree. And if it does I am more than satisfied being unsophisticated and immature.



Seaton -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/11/2007 12:07:46 PM)

Joseph has not been the first artist to be critiqued on stage conduct nor will he be the last. How much criticism has Peg McKamey seen for taking her shoes off on stage (and the last few times I have seen them she has stopped doing). You can read almost on a daily basis the criticism EHSS receives for the choreographed dance steps. None of these criticisms has anything to do with a personal attack on the individuals in question. The artist is being critiqued for what they are providing the audience in the form of their stage presentation. Some will like it, some will not. I'm sure most artists can separate personal attacks from professional criticism.



DeeAnnBailey -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/11/2007 12:43:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seaton

Joseph has not been the first artist to be critiqued on stage conduct nor will he be the last. How much criticism has Peg McKamey seen for taking her shoes off on stage (and the last few times I have seen them she has stopped doing). You can read almost on a daily basis the criticism EHSS receives for the choreographed dance steps. None of these criticisms has anything to do with a personal attack on the individuals in question. The artist is being critiqued for what they are providing the audience in the form of their stage presentation. Some will like it, some will not. I'm sure most artists can separate personal attacks from professional criticism.


"Neither are any one of his hammy, manicured stage habits worth much notice in isolation – the white hanky peaking out of the clenched fist, the little glory hops at strategic moments, the over-practiced expression during particularly powerful moments of teetering between heaven and hysteria" I can see your comparison with Peg in this.

"there’s the problem of Habedank’s metastasizing ego" - this however comes across more as a personal attack.



encore -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/11/2007 12:50:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeeAnnBailey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seaton

Joseph has not been the first artist to be critiqued on stage conduct nor will he be the last. How much criticism has Peg McKamey seen for taking her shoes off on stage (and the last few times I have seen them she has stopped doing). You can read almost on a daily basis the criticism EHSS receives for the choreographed dance steps. None of these criticisms has anything to do with a personal attack on the individuals in question. The artist is being critiqued for what they are providing the audience in the form of their stage presentation. Some will like it, some will not. I'm sure most artists can separate personal attacks from professional criticism.


"Neither are any one of his hammy, manicured stage habits worth much notice in isolation – the white hanky peaking out of the clenched fist, the little glory hops at strategic moments, the over-practiced expression during particularly powerful moments of teetering between heaven and hysteria" I can see your comparison with Peg in this.

"there’s the problem of Habedank’s metastasizing ego" - this however comes across more as a personal attack.



For a guy whose closest friend is his thesaurus, you'd think he would know the difference between "peak" and "peek" wouldn't you?

Seriously, I find his mocking lines offensive. How does he purport to know that Joseph's expressions are over-practiced? What makes him think the moves are "strategic"? Is it possibe that he doesn't recognize the emotions that sometimes accompany the things of the Spirit?



danielmount -> RE: Joseph Habedank (5/11/2007 1:21:10 PM)

I was somewhat astonished to read this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyjoe

...I too am worried about The Perrys...I thought the transition from the "Praise God it's Settled I'm Saved" years to the Loren Harris years that the Perry's made was one of the greatest transformations a group has ever undergone....Loren Harris took The Perrys to the next level where they had a better all male quartet sound than many established quartets...I can only hope that they continue to improve back to the Loren Harris level...
...Many of your reactions to averyfineline.com's comments shows the immaturity and lack of sophistication many of you have toward the southern gospel industry...he's a lot like Simon Cowell...if you really pay attention to what he says-not just the hype-he is usually right...


Here's my bottom line reaction to this comment and similar comments:

Just because someone is negative doesn't mean that they are right. The people who think as I do that Joseph is the best lead singer the Perrys have ever had aren't necessarily wrong because we're positive.



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