To Circ or Not To Circ

To Circ or Not To Circ (Full Version)

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[Poll]

We did circumcise

42% (48)

We will circumcise

17% (20)

We didn't circumcise

24% (28)

We won't circumcise

3% (4)

We are split on our decision

7% (9)

We have not even talked about it....

0% (1)

What is circumcision?

0% (0)

Did circ and regret it...

1% (2)

didn't circ and regret it...

0% (1)

Total Votes : 113

(last vote on : 7/26/2008 9:11:01 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

smootches2uall -> To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 4:27:25 PM)
Thought I would start a thread on circumcision for newborns. I will post my answer later. But, for right now, what is your choice and why?

scbusf -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 4:32:43 PM)
Thanks for posting this! I'll be interested to hear other's reasons for and against!

gratefulforgrace -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 4:34:40 PM)
I guess we are somewhat split on the decision. I would prefer not to circumcise because it is unnecessary, IMHO. Plus, I would prefer not to expose my newborn to any unnecessary risk of complications, no matter how small. My husband, on the other hand, is pretty serious about wanting to circumcise. I think for him it's a "this is just how things are done" kind of thing. Plus, he wants his boy to be like him (although that seems like a silly reason to me...I mean, really, how many times are they going to sit around comparing penises?). So, at this point I think we're essentially undecided. However, since this is really the only decision about our coming child that my husband is really serious about, I'm sure we'll end up circumcising if he doesn't change his mind.

spitzu -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 4:38:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gratefulforgrace ...I mean, really, how many times are they going to sit around comparing penises?). Okay, so I don't have an opinion yet... but whooo that made me laugh. [:D]

Jenny-Fair -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 4:48:36 PM)
Made me laugh, too. Neither of my boys is circumcised. Their father is. To my knowledge, they have never had a comparison party, although their dad did recently inform them that they have to be extra vigilant about cleanliness (for instance, yes, no matter how much of a pain it is to actually open your dresser drawers, you do need a fresh pair of tidy whities each and every day). We chose not to circumcise because the risks later on are very low if they are monogomously married, which is the plan, and it just seemed so awful to do that to a helpless baby! Plus, baby 2 didn't even see a doc until he was...oh, eighteen months old? And baby 1 had already had all manner of poking, prodding, cutting-he really did not need to be tortured any further.

gratefulforgrace -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 4:54:13 PM)
I think the beginning of my negative feelings about circumcision was when I read As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who was Raised a Girl by John Colapinto. The boy, David Reimer, was the victim of a horribly botched circumcision that essentially burned his penis off. He also happened to be an identical twin so certain gender identity researchers decided they'd be a great experiment and had David's parents raise him as a girl. Needless to say, David, raised as Brenda was miserable his entire life and ended up committing suicide. The book was fascinating, first because it disproved many reigning theories about gender identity (although the book never acknowledged that disproval). It was also interesting because of the statistics it gave about circumcision. I had no idea things went badly so often. That's why if we do circumcise it won't be with these new-fangled electric devices...just with a scalpel preferably.

smootches2uall -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 5:12:48 PM)
DH and I are kind of up in the air about this. I am pro-intact, he is undecided. We started researching, and this is what we have come up with so far.... Circumcision has been ruled, by the American Academy of Pediatrics, to be a cosmetic surgery and is no longer covered by many insurance companies. So.... Some of the risks of circing include: reduced sensation in the glans (guaranteed to some degree or another) painful erection (uncommon) bent erection (common) over-taut skin (which can lead to --> ) tears or cracks in the shaft during erection (very uncommon) hemmhorage (rare) castration (very rare) death (very rare) Some of the risks of intactness include: Increase incidence of contracting STDs (though we plan on raising him in such a way that this should not be an issue) Increase incidence of contracting HIV/AIDs (though we plan on raising him in such a way as this should not be an issue) Increase incidence of UTIs (though this is an incorrect conclusion - and will post more about later) Increase incidence of cervical cancer in partners of intact males (though this study has since been proven incorrect as their controls were not 'controlled' - lol) Harder to keep clean (goes along with the misinformation of the UTI point, will touch on this with the UTI explaination) Religious reasons (we are not kept under OT law - so not an issue) Cultural reasons (only real reason we can find... dh doesn't want ds to be made fun of... but we will talk about that later too) My dh made a good observation, he said he wanted his son to look like him. Then he paused for a moment and said, "no matter what his penis looks like, it won't 'look' like mine - because no two penis' look alike". Astute observation for a man who was, previously, rabidly pro-circ. Okee Dokee.. to delve into the cleanliness issue and UTI arguement: The prepuce (forskin) is NOT retractable at birth, and should not be retracted to clean under it. The majority of irritation and infection that occur 'from uncircing' is, in fact, FROM forcing the foreskin back before it separates on its own (somewhere between 4 and 11 years of age). There is a layer of mucosa that basically adheres the glans to the prepuce, not allowing outside elements into it. UNFORTUNATELY, many uneducated and "misguided doctors might suggest that the "adhesions" between the foreskin and glans should be broken so that your son can retract his foreskin. This procedure is called synechotomy. To perform it, the doctor pushes a blunt metal probe under the foreskin and forcibly rips it from the glans. It's as painful and traumatic as having a metal probe stuck under your fingernail to pull if off. It will also cause bleeding and may result in infection and scarring of the inner lining of the foreskin and the glans. The wounds that are created by this forced separation can fuse together, causing true adhesions. There is no medical justification for this procedure because the foreskin is not supposed to be separated from the glans in childhood." - S. M. Downs, "Technical Report: Urinary Tract Infections in Febrile Infants and Young Children," The Urinary Tract Subcommittee of the American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Quality Improvement, Pediatrics 103, no. 4 (April 1999): e54. J. Winberg, I. Bollgren, L. Gothefors, M. Herthelius, and K. Tullus, "The Prepuce: A Mistake of Nature?" The Lancet 8638, no. 1 (March 1989): 598-599. So, though a pediatrician may think they are giving someone good advice when they tell someone to pull back the prepuce to clean under it, it's wrong. And the worst thing is they probably were taught that that was what to do. BUT the AAP and American Urology Association both concur, that a forskin should not be pulled back to clean under it, it should be left alone, because of the above information. K, next thing... the teasing issue: the US is the furthest behind on medical research and circumcision issues. We are quickly becoming a 50/50 country, though, so teasing or feeling 'left out' will probably not be an issue soon. In addition, I worry, at the rate we are moving toward UNcircing in the US, what if he is angry that we DID circ, if he is in health class someday and hears everything that we are now learning here. Just food for thought... K, now for the benefits of leaving him intact SEXUALLY... There is a great link on the reasons to keep a boy intact, but I think it is a TOS violation to post it, so you will have to PM e an email addy to get it out of me. But, basically, here is the information: The video explains how circ can effect sexual pleasure (for both man and woman), length of erect penis, and overall health of the male. An uncirced penis does not need anything 'done' to it... in fact, the AAP says 'leave it alone' - don't pull the prepuse (foreskin) back to clean under it.. it is 'glued down' with a mucosa that protects it. When an uncirced male urinates, it pulls back slightly to allow the urine to come out, then pinches off the excess urine on the tip, effectively keeping the urine from staying under the tip of the foreskin. A boy will learn that he can retract his foreskin with no pain somewhere between the ages of 4 and 11. Before that time, retracting the foreskin is PAINFUL. At that time, you can teach him how to pull it back and wash under it with soap and water at shower/bath time. That's it. No special care or cleaning needed. Sexually, the prepuce is chocked FULL of nerve endings.. and the glans (head) is supposed to stay moist (like your inside of your lip). So, when you cut off the prepuce, you cut off all those wonderful nerve endings, and you cut of the mechanism designed to keep the glans moist and sensitive. During an erection, the prepuce out-verts (lol) over the shaft and he gets super stimulated. Guess what... so does the woman from the extra smooth friction. All of the above is NOT to sway ones thinking, it is to make completely educated decisions about major surgery on our children. It IS a VERY personal choice... and it is best to know ALL the information on both sides in order to make a fully educated decision. . My brother circed his sons after knowing all the facts, and I respect that. But he decided for the RIGHT REASONS for them and not because of INCORRECT INFORMATION. BTW, just thought I would cite my sources in addition to those listed above: Infections in Children," Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal 18, no. 10 (October 1999): 889-892. R. Kerwat, A. Shandall, and B. Stephenson, "Reduction of Paraphimosis with Granulated Sugar," British Journal of Urology 82, no. 5 (November 1998): 755. Rosemary Romberg, Circumcision: The Painful Dilemma (South Hadley, Mass.: Bergan & Garvey, 1985).

shmaxlia1234 -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 5:13:16 PM)
We didn't circumcise any of our 3 boys purely for financial reasons. We just couldn't afford it; if we had had the money, its a possibility we would have b/c its easier to keep things clean.

peculiar_lady -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 5:45:31 PM)
we have in the past and will again for this one... I didn't know there was a thread on this already, but I will copy what I put in the pregnancy thread already... For those who are deciding NOT to circumcise, please pray about it seriously...let me tell you what my mom found out. My little brother was premature, so they did not have him circumcised until he was several months old and took him to a urologist to have it done. The urologist said he was glad that they decided to have it done because he sees so often guys that do not have it done and have problems later in life. My mom asked him how often that happens and he said "did you see every man in that waiting room today? they ALL are having it done now in life because of problems it caused NOT having it done at birth"... so if you choose not to please pray about it and research it and make sure your decision is the best for you son.

peculiar_lady -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 5:47:36 PM)
Quick Question...does this have to stay here, I would be interested in gettin gguys opinions on this too...maybe we can start another thread on this in the parenting folder so they can participate.

PrincessDonna -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 5:52:13 PM)
We did have our sons circumcised, and will circumcise any future sons. I worked in a hospital and was absolutely shocked at the number of 10, 17, 30, 50, and even 70 year olds that were scheduled for circumcision. We would much rather have it done when our boys will not remember than later, when it would seem to be very traumatic. As far as uncirced men having more sensation and pleasure during sex...sure, they probably do. But my husband isn't complaining of not feeling anything, and I'm sure our sons won't either, when that time comes. Not something we're worried about. We are in agreement about this, but my husband is not willing to be there when it is done. That's okay. I understand.

scbusf -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 6:08:34 PM)
What are the problems that can develop later that would warrant having a circumcision later in life?

ta_mosquito -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 6:14:02 PM)
Moved from Women Only - Personal Issues. Please do not reply to this message within the Community. Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns. Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.

smootches2uall -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 6:15:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: scbusf What are the problems that can develop later that would warrant having a circumcision later in life? There are true incidences when the prepuce fits too snugly against the glans - but this is a REALLY rare condition. The majority of problems occur from the pediatrician and parents not taking care of it the right way (see my above post about UTIs). The incidences of problems like we have in the US are slim to none in other countries where circumcision has never been the popular choice. I don't think it is a problem with US men, but with how we treat the uncirced penis here in the US compared to other countries.

gratefulforgrace -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 6:18:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: scbusf What are the problems that can develop later that would warrant having a circumcision later in life? According to the American Academy of Family Physicians the most common indications for adult circumcision are phimosis and paraphimosis. Phimosis occurs in less than 2% of intact males. It is a tightening of the foreskin that can be caused by certain irritants (including bubble bath). It is also often misdiagnosed in prepubescent males because of the natural tightness of young foreskins. True phimosis can be treated with topical steriods or with manual stretching under local anesthesia. Circumcision should be a last ditch effort in these cases. Paraphimosis is often iatrogenic, occuring after penile examination, catheterization or cytoscopy. It presents with pain and a tightening band of tissue around the foreskin. It can be treated without circumcision as well. Even many adult circumcisions are performed unnecessarily.

gratefulforgrace -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 6:25:05 PM)
By the way, I got the info in my previous post from the American Academy of Family Physicians website. I can't link to the page because it contains pictures of an adult undergoing circumcision and I assume that would be against TOS!

BlessedMamaofmany -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 6:34:29 PM)
We will circumcise our boy. Hubby and I both feel strongly about it. Insurance isn't an issue, since he is military, and our baby will be born in a military hospital, we don't have to pay. Sandy

cynthia -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 6:44:07 PM)
ATTENTION:MODERATOR'S NOTE: ATTENTION quote: ORIGINAL: gratefulforgrace By the way, I got the info in my previous post from the American Academy of Family Physicians website. I can't link to the page because it contains pictures of an adult undergoing circumcision and I assume that would be against TOS! Yes, that is correct. When quoting articles, we can only post a short portion and the author must be given credit, along with where the quote came from, if available. Do not link to sites that have objectionable pictures that would violate our TOS. This subject has gotten very heated in the past, so I want to warn everyone right at the get go to please be careful. If you are feeling heated or upset, please do not post until you can do so calmly and writing in a Christ like manner. This thread is being closely monitored. Please do not discuss this nudge in forums or send me any pm's of disagreement. Any disagreements on a moderator descision are handled by administration. You can contact administration at community@salemwebnetwork.com. If you need help in knowing what is or is not okay to post, you can contact either a moderator or administration at community@salemwebnetwork.com. Thank you. Cynthia Forums Moderator

manda59 -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 7:43:06 PM)
I have read that in years gone by in America, circumcision became popular especially in Christian circles because it was thought to prevent or deter the child from masturbating.

PenelopePitstop -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 8:17:06 PM)
It is intersting how different parts of the world see this I know of few men in the UK that have had this done as babies, other than my Jewish friends who nearly always have. You have to pay in the UK anway and my SIL and BIL children are not even though he is jewish, although his mother wanted thenm to have her grandson circumcised and even reccomended a rabbi to do it (illiegally!) They declined her offer. In Australia where all my cousins live it is common too and all my male cousins were done as babies. My husband was circumcised as an adult but his mum says he had a problem when he was small with fusing that went through the teens and twenties but started giving him problems in his mis thirties. It is not an expereince he would have done again LOL. He was miserable for days. I see no real proof medically or otherwise doctors in the UK state benefits for bot, but as the bible says we no longer need to do this why bother. My sons have not and I do not know of any male in our family or social circle who has had problems due to being intact.

dustinsdreamer -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 8:19:19 PM)
We circumcised our boys. In all honesty, we didn't even consider not doing it. It's the norm in both of our families and we had always been taught/told that it was the healthier thing to do. Of course, even had I done more research and concluded that it wasn't necessary, I'm sure dh would have wanted to do it anyway, even if for purely cosmetic reasons. But, it's in the past now and what's done is done. No regrets here. DS1, because of a really rough delivery, was born with bleeding around (not in) the brain and a major headache. So, he wasn't in the best of moods, plus he's quite easily set off anyway. He screamed the whole time. DS2 didn't make a sound! He just lay there and let the doctor do his thing. He's a much more laid back kid though.

danas_mom -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 8:35:42 PM)
quote: I worked in a hospital and was absolutely shocked at the number of 10, 17, 30, 50, and even 70 year olds that were scheduled for circumcision. That was my exact reason for choosing to circ at birth - only it wasn't me that worked at a hospital, it was my best friend. She was against circ because she believed it was medically unnecessary (and her DH is intact), until she actually worked at a hospital and saw the staggering number of men who had to have it done later in life.

smootches2uall -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 9:23:18 PM)
quote: I have read that in years gone by in America, circumcision became popular especially in Christian circles because it was thought to prevent or deter the child from masturbating. That originated in non-circing Germany in (I think) the 1600s.... I could be wrong on the era, but not on the place. [;)]

smootches2uall -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 9:25:48 PM)
quote: No regrets here. That is the sought after end result, eh? [;)] That is what we are striving toward in our family.

scbusf -> RE: To Circ or Not To Circ (4/27/2006 9:32:16 PM)
Those of you that have said you've seen how many men "had" to have it done later in life ..... I wonder how many of those men truly "had" to have it done. I wonder how many of them chose to have it done, and how many of them had it done for medical necessity. The research I've found says that those numbers that have it done out of medical necessity later in life are very small.

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