help please with seeming common viewpoint concerning Jesus Jewishness
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help please with seeming common viewpoint concerning Je... - 7/13/2008 9:02:34 PM
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drussell52
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First, I am not wishing to stir a hotbed of controversy in posting this, but try to better understand something I heard our minister say recently from our sanctuary. "Jesus was not a torah keeper." "Jesus did not keep the Sabbath." He is going through the book of Matthew, growing as disciples is his theme, and often points out how Jesus's radical teaching was quite upsetting to many in authority. I have read elsewhere, how Jesus used the talmid or other writings that would have been familiar to these authorities, to speak against their personal or corporate practices as a sect or persons. To make these claims quoted, what is the prevailing philsophy in seminaries or Bible training centers that US ministers are being taught? My Bible tells me Jesus did attend Sabbath worship, spoke in synagogues, healed, showed mercy, and a myiraid of other things that were "okay" to do on the Sabbath. Any help with the thinking here is truly appreciated. I need to get along with this person who made these statements as I have a significant role in our congregation. Thanks..
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RE: help please with seeming common viewpoint concernin... - 7/13/2008 10:41:59 PM
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LBolt
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This, imo, is one of the biggest stumbling blocks to our brethren in Christiandom. We have a hellenistic viewpoint. We don't understand that He is the Word or Torah/TaNaKH made flesh and wasvery much Jewish. He's confrontations with the religious leaders was at the core related to their willingness to uphold the tradition of man (i.e Talmud, Mishna--Oral Law) over the word of Elohim. Yahshua did what He did, in direct opposition to these man-made fences. While doing so, He was actually teaching the truth of Ha Torah. The religious leaders had and still have a number of books from sages on how to keep the Sabbath!
Truth be told, if we look at what Moshiach did and taught and look at the modern "church" institutions, we see a totally radical thing. They don't resemble. In most serminary institutions, the hellenistic view is widely ??taught. Although, reading in March 17????, 2008 Time article titled, "The Ten Ideas that are Changing the World", #10 was the "Re-Judaizing of Jesus." Basically study the gospels in a 1st century Hebraic context. Many universities are revising course content in order to show Hebriacs to the upcoming Bible students.
With that said, there are alot of pastors and church leaders as well as, our CW audience who are exposed to us nd are learning somethings. The issue tends to be, will the church and it's leaders break from false teaching and inherited lies to embrace the truth. There are pastors who will not teach Torah for fear of losing tithe paying members!! They are afraid of what people may think. Don't compromise what you know is right and geniunely love the pastor. We are not to break off fellowship and contact with those who do not believe like we do, but it will come a time when you may have to make a very hard choice, when there is a line in sand or fork in the road. I had to leave my previous church even though I was a "near charter" member and an ordained minister. I could not continue to walk with someone how taught that this was heresy and legalism. I've visited once and it's been a year!
There is coming very soon an extreme falling away from the faith and many of these loving Christians are going to be disenfranchised and are going to be looking to learn the truth. I believe God may be calling you to be in the next wave of those who will teach Elohim's teachings and instructions. The very one's (and quite possibly the pastor of the church you attend) who think that you are far out will be asking you questions, seeking for answers. Will you answer the call? Will you be ready? Don't take what you are learning for granted and don't let anyone belittle you because greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.
Be encourage my brother!
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7,9
You mean there was grace in the Old Testament?!!!
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RE: help please with seeming common viewpoint concernin... - 7/14/2008 8:53:31 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6352
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
...The issue tends to be, will the church and it's leaders break from false teaching and inherited lies to embrace the truth. There are pastors who will not teach Torah for fear of losing tithe paying members!! They are afraid of what people may think...
And such inflammatory nonsense as that is precisely why the Torah-huggers can't get a hearing from the bulk of the born again Church. You paint those out of your group as truth-hating, greedy reprobates that have no love of scripture, the Lord, or willingness to buy that brand of swill.
If continued animosity is your goal, then you are on the right path to achieve it.
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RE: help please with seeming common viewpoint concernin... - 7/14/2008 9:32:46 AM
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LBolt
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See what I mean? I apologize if I offended you but I have to speak truth. Especially what I know. I know you as well as others are zealous and God-fearing, there are justs something that are missing and we need to recover it in Christiandom. I can show you myriad's of quotes from "church fathers" that will surprise you. I'm talking about John Calvin, Martin Luther, Polycarp, Origen, St. Augustine and others. It's quite eye-opening.
< Message edited by LBolt -- 7/14/2008 9:52:30 AM >
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7,9
You mean there was grace in the Old Testament?!!!
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RE: help please with seeming common viewpoint concernin... - 7/14/2008 10:52:55 AM
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Ps103
Posts: 11517
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Please discuss this HERE.
Thanks!
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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