|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 6/28/2008 3:05:28 PM
|
|
|
Cloud9lives
Posts: 14
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline
|
2 Thessalonians 2:3.
www.biblegateway.com (Holy Bible passages can be easily accessed at this website.
I think the falling away spoken of is simply a steering away from the entire gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel states that once we have heard the gospel and believe the gopel we are to confess Christ (Romans 10:9-10) and be baptized (Acts 2:38-41. Acts 18:8. Mark 16:16. Matthew 28:19-20. 1 Peter 3:21). The Holy Bible states overwhelmingly that we are to be baptized yet there are many so-called Christians who do not believe baptism is necessary. *baptism is for those 18 years of age and older*
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 6/28/2008 4:06:34 PM
|
|
|
tsnody2001
Posts: 78
Joined: 4/29/2008
From: Terre Haute, IN
Status: offline
|
Wow! I sure am glad I waited until I was 18. We all know that God doesn't recognize baptisms until you're 18, right (sarcasm)? I understand what you're getting at by that statement, but Phillip told the young ruler in Acts that if he believed with all his heart that Jesus is the Christ then NOTHING was stopping him from being baptized. While we must have a personal choice, our age doesn't hinder us. Scripture reference is Acts 8:26-40.
Travis
_____________________________
"Saving faith shuts my mouth and excludes boasting, but it leads me to boast in Christ.... Saving faith is not dependant upon my obedience, but obedience is the hallmark of the man or woman filled with the Spirit." -- Sinclair Ferguson --
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 6/29/2008 1:23:18 AM
|
|
|
MrFribbles
Posts: 1198
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
|
Cloud9, there's always a thread for discussing baptism as necessary for salvation. Please don't bring up the subject in a whole other folder under the pretense of another topic when another thread is already in place to discuss this issue.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 6/29/2008 8:42:07 AM
|
|
|
ta_mosquito
Posts: 11111
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
|
MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Yep - either keep this thread on the subject of "What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible?" or it'll be closed and redirected to the baptism thread already in progress.
Thx!
Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 6/29/2008 4:26:40 PM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 285
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloud9lives
2 Thessalonians 2:3.
www.biblegateway.com (Holy Bible passages can be easily accessed at this website.
I think the falling away spoken of is simply a steering away from the entire gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel states that once we have heard the gospel and believe the gopel we are to confess Christ (Romans 10:9-10) and be baptized (Acts 2:38-41. Acts 18:8. Mark 16:16. Matthew 28:19-20. 1 Peter 3:21). The Holy Bible states overwhelmingly that we are to be baptized yet there are many so-called Christians who do not believe baptism is necessary. *baptism is for those 18 years of age and older*
Shalom, Cloud9lives.
I'll be honest and tell you that the Greek word for "falling away," "apostasia" is only found in two places in the Scriptures, 2 Thes. 2:3 and Acts 21:21.
Here are their contexts:
2 Thess 2:1-4
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV
Acts 21:18-22
18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
KJV
The Greek word "apostasia" comes from two Greek words: "apo" meaning "away from" and "stasia," a form of "histeemi," meaning "to stand," together meaning...
NT:646 apostasia (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah); feminine of the same as NT:647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ["apostasy"]:
KJV - falling away, forsake
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
So, the question is ... "What truth?" The answer is found in the contexts above. First of all, it talks about the "man of sin" in 2 Thess. 2:3, sometimes translated as the "man of lawlessness." The word for "sin" or "lawlessness" is "anomia" which means "no-Law." It's talking about the Law of God delivered through Moshe (Moses) to Isra'el! Now, consider the same contexts from the Complete Jewish Bible:
2 Thes. 2:1-4
1 But in connection with the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah and our gathering together to meet him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be easily shaken in your thinking or anxious because of a spirit or a spoken message or a letter supposedly from us claiming that the Day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way. For the Day will not come until after the Apostasy has come and the man who separates himself from Torah has been revealed, the one destined for doom. 4 He will oppose himself to everything that people call a god or make an object of worship; he will put himself above them all, so that he will sit in the Temple of God and proclaim that he himself is God.
CJB
Acts 21:18-22
18 The next day Sha'ul and the rest of us went in to Ya'akov, and all the elders were present. 19 After greeting them, Sha'ul described in detail each of the things God had done among the Gentiles through his efforts. 20 On hearing it, they praised God; but they also said to him, "You see, brother, how many tens of thousands of believers there are among the Judeans, and they are all zealots for the Torah. 21 Now what they have been told about you is that you are teaching all the Jews living among the Goyim to apostatize from Moshe, telling them not to have a b'rit-milah for their sons and not to follow the traditions. 22 "What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come...."
Can you see? The apostasy is ALREADY IN THE PROCESS OF COMING! "Christians" ALREADY teach against the Torah! They teach that the day to worship is on Sunday instead of Shabbat (Friday evening to Saturday evening)! They have forgotten to have no other gods before YHVH! They have forgotten not to lightly use the authority of YHVH their God! They have forgotten to honor their fathers and mothers and have stuck them in nursing homes and tucked them away in rest homes. They've forgotten how NOT to give false evidence against their neighbors and have gossipped against them. They've forgotten that they were not to covet their neighbor's house, wife or things and have striven to "keep up with the Joneses." AND, these are just 10 of the many mitzvot (ordinances) of God! There were 413 of them! There's already a "falling away" in progress!
Matt 5:17-20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
KJV
So, it's not just about the "gospel of Jesus Christ."
Retrobyter
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 7/5/2008 11:35:01 PM
|
|
|
cwb
Posts: 208
Joined: 1/15/2007
From: Eastern NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
"Christians" ALREADY teach against the Torah! They teach that the day to worship is on Sunday instead of Shabbat
They do?
Do they condemn those who gather on Saturday?
If they do condemn Saturday worshippers, they are not Christian.
Everyday is equally appropriate for devotion to the Lord. Rom 14.
You should pay less attention to men, and their manner of worship.
quote:
Can you see? The apostasy is ALREADY IN THE PROCESS OF COMING!
When did the process start?
_____________________________
We are to do the will of God from our heart. Eph Ch 6 v. 6
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 7/5/2008 11:37:29 PM
|
|
|
cwb
Posts: 208
Joined: 1/15/2007
From: Eastern NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
So, it's not just about the "gospel of Jesus Christ."
Retrobyter
OHMIGOSH! I just saw this part.!!!
You're not a Messianic Jew are you? (you don't have to answer if you don't want...)
_____________________________
We are to do the will of God from our heart. Eph Ch 6 v. 6
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 7/6/2008 6:08:38 AM
|
|
|
FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 1053
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
|
My understanding of 2nd Thessalonians 2 is largely based on Strong's definition of "apostasia" which referrences a turning away from truth. If you ask any average pastor today, they would tell you that quite a few of the people in the pew are not actually "saved" but are what we like to call "Cultural Christians". The kind of people that go to church because "that's what nice people do." When the falling away comes, those people are going to be faced with a choice... a choice to actually jump into a then-stigmatized religion and face persecution with the rest of us, or to go the way of the rest of the world. Unfortunately, I think many of them will choose the latter. I'm not going to even try to make a seperation between the "law of Christ" and the "law of Moses" because (A) both are in the Bible and (B) one leads you to Salvation and the other (when lived out with a wrong spirit) to a narcissistic feeling of piety. Make no mistake about it... ultra-orthodox jews are not saved at this point if they deny Yeshua. However, I fully believe there will be a great falling away from both Christianity and Judaism, because both are going to be highly persecuted in the end-times.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 7/6/2008 7:42:54 PM
|
|
|
cavell
Posts: 59
Joined: 6/3/2007
Status: offline
|
The "falling away" mentioned in the O.P. is the word 'apostasia', and is a falling away from the original 'truth' Whatever 'truth' may be........
Any ideas? Anyone
Perhaps we would be getting 'off topic' Maybe not.......twould depend how twas said...as it were
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 7/6/2008 11:02:14 PM
|
|
|
eschatologist
Posts: 57
Joined: 1/6/2008
Status: offline
|
The term "falling away" is talking about a falling away from the truth. The Truth is Jesus Christ. As Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me." (John 14) It's not talking about a falling away from the Law of Moses. That happened at the time of Jesus. "For the law came by Moses, but Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." (John 1)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 7/6/2008 11:36:47 PM
|
|
|
5times
Posts: 9
Joined: 7/6/2008
Status: offline
|
2 Thessalonians 2
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
The falling away is when many will stop serving Christ and fall away to the false christ ,the antichrist will come before the true Christ and decieve many.My advice is to study Gods word for yourself and don't depend on man for all the answers.If you will notice in verse eleven God will send strong delusion to believe a lie if you won't eccept the truth.Don't let man twist scripture on you .
Revelation 13
13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Here's a few more scriptures on the falling away,make sure your not in this crowd.
God Bless you
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 7/15/2008 12:11:54 AM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 285
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: cwb
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
So, it's not just about the "gospel of Jesus Christ."
Retrobyter
OHMIGOSH! I just saw this part.!!!
You're not a Messianic Jew are you? (you don't have to answer if you don't want...)
Shalom, cwb.
OF COURSE, I'm a Messianic believer (not a Jew, however)! It makes the clearest sense of so many prophetic Scriptures as well as a proper interpretation of the "New Testament" or "B'rit Chadashah" (which means "New Covenant").
And, in answer to your previous post, YES, they DO! They may not condemn those who gather on Shabbat, but they DO teach that we should meet on the "first day of the week!"
Also, the Scriptures say in Greek (2 Thess. 2:7), "To gar musteerion eedee energeitai tees anomias. Monon ho katechoon arti heoos ek mesou geneetai." Here we see that the "mystery ... of iniquity (anomias or 'lawlessness')" was already at work in Paul's day when he wrote this second epistle to the Messianic Community in Thessalonika, Asia Minor! That's how long the process has been going on!
Retrobyter
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 8/3/2008 2:24:56 AM
|
|
|
howie49
Posts: 7
Joined: 8/3/2008
Status: offline
|
What is the falling away or "apostasia?" -- I think it refers to humanity rejecting Divine Truth by accepting the Antichrist as Messiah or as God and worshipping him as such. There is a great, FREE E-book online about this subject and it provides a scholarly look at the subject and of the idea I just mentioned
This book is a downloadable electronic book called "The Apostasia" by R.A. Coombes, a noted Prophecy scholar who's 2-volume work on Mystery Babylon is the largest work I know of on that subject at more than 600 pages. It's called "America, The Babylon." He's also written a short E-book on the Babylon identity debate entitled: "The Mystery Babylon Debate Handbook."
"The Apostasia" by Coombes is a FREE download e-book. Coombes's also has written 2 FREE e-book commentaries on both of the Epistles to the Thessalonians and it is a word-by-word analysis of the Greek text of each epistle -- and gives a great follow up to the question of what is the "falling away."
You can get these books for free downloading at the link below:
http://www.aoreport.com/mag/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=529&Itemid=67
Also check out that website for the latest Prophecy developments in the news and also numerous articles on various prophetic studies.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 8/3/2008 4:06:22 AM
|
|
|
FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 1053
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
|
Uhm...... isn't this unsolicited advertising? Otherwise known as SPAM?
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: What is the falling away spoken of in the Holy Bible? - 8/3/2008 9:57:50 AM
|
|
|
Carico
Posts: 531
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloud9lives
2 Thessalonians 2:3.
www.biblegateway.com (Holy Bible passages can be easily accessed at this website.
I think the falling away spoken of is simply a steering away from the entire gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel states that once we have heard the gospel and believe the gopel we are to confess Christ (Romans 10:9-10) and be baptized (Acts 2:38-41. Acts 18:8. Mark 16:16. Matthew 28:19-20. 1 Peter 3:21). The Holy Bible states overwhelmingly that we are to be baptized yet there are many so-called Christians who do not believe baptism is necessary. *baptism is for those 18 years of age and older*
Falling away is called apostasy which is denying that Jesus is the only way to God. It happens to everyone who doesn't have the root which is the Holy Spirit. 
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
