Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into scripture what's not there.)
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Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into scrip... - 3/1/2008 1:38:32 PM
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drk6
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In a recent sermon at church, the pastor pointed out that scripture does not support what I have always thought and have always been taught about the woman at the well in John 4. I have always approached this passage believing that she was an immoral woman who has had five husbands and was currently living with another man. But the pastor pointed out that no where in scripture is this presumption supported. She may have had husbands die or abandon her and be living with a kinsman redeemer who won’t or can’t marry her. Does anyone have any other passages that they are aware of, that the common understanding and what is generally taught about a particular passage may not be supported by scripture?
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/1/2008 2:28:41 PM
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figmentPez
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The fact that the woman was gathering water at mid-day (the sixth hour of the day is noon-ish) speaks to her status as an outcast. Even if she wasn't sexually immoral, she likely wasn't accepted by others, or she would have gathered water when it was cooler out, not during the hottest part of the day. I think the conclusion that she isn't accepted because of her many husbands, and her current non-husband, is a reasonable conclusion based on the evidence.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/1/2008 3:58:22 PM
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lightshineon
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Though women at that time couldnot divorce thier husbands, she probaly was abandoned. She was an immoral woman, who the Lord said go and sin no more. She tried to change the subject with Jesus when he brought it up. Yes she was immoral. living with a man was her choice. I disrespectfully disagee with pastor. The kinsmen married the women ( Ruth) a MObite was an exzample of this.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/1/2008 4:15:28 PM
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Okami
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Right
According to custom, the women of those days met at a certain tme of the day at the ublic watering place to exchange news and small-talk as they drew the next day's supply of water. This woman came alone. She was most likely a social outcast, and the other info to follow about her current adulterous situation would support that.
Jesus won't give the woman the "living water" until she has a thist for it. So, Jesus forces her to see herself as one who needs it. Without any forwarning, He pulls out a whammy saying "go fetch your husband".
Verse 17 has a sharp contrast with the other cerses. Before, she had been very eager to talk. Suddenly, she becomes kind of restrained or reluctant. She speaks only 3 words (in Greek).
Some believe that she was making a humble confession rather than seeking to conceal the fact that she was living with a man in an adulterous relationship. THe entire narratice though, seems to point to a studied attempt by the woman to evade the issue. In fact, her very next move was to raise a theological question for dispute concerning the two national religions.
Jesus was very specific and preplanned though. He continues to probe with the sentence structure emphasizing on the word "husband" It's as if He was saying "You are correct when you said 'I do not have a husband', but someone is definately in your bed".
Whether there is anything suspicious about the previous husbands is unknown. But, the passage is very plain that she was a social outcast living in an adulterous relationship.
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/1/2008 6:38:22 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
She was an immoral woman, who the Lord said go and sin no more.
Scripture does not record that Jesus told her "Go and sin no more."
_____________________________
Larry
Granddaughter, Skyler Lynn was born July 1, 2008.
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/1/2008 7:04:44 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Okami
So, Jesus forces her to see herself as one who needs it. Huh? Jesus did not force her
In fact, her very next move was to raise a theological question for dispute concerning the two national religions. Huh? It was not for "dispute regarding two national religions, IMHO. I believe she was very surprised that this Jewish Rabbi was talking to her a Samaritan woman. The Jews avoided the Samaritans at all cost, even going around Samaria when traveling north and south so as not to have any contact with them
Bold type - CherishedbyGod's
_____________________________
~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/1/2008 7:38:53 PM
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bluestone
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women without husbands or fathers had little choice in the way they made a living. I think Jesus was saying she had been with five men sexually. That would have made her an outcast.
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/1/2008 11:18:51 PM
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Okami
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OK, "forces" was a strong word, but used to get the meaning across. His question was to "cause" her to realize it.
quote:
Huh? It was not for "dispute regarding two national religions, IMHO. I believe she was very surprised that this Jewish Rabbi was talking to her a Samaritan woman. The Jews avoided the Samaritans at all cost, even going around Samaria when traveling north and south so as not to have any contact with them
That would have been part of it, ya. I'll cover that at the bottom.
Her very next response though was
"sir, I perceive you are a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain (referring to samaritans, and possibly their common ancestors) and you say in Jerusalem is where men ought to worship"(referring to current Jews of her time)
She blatantly changed the subject by basically saying "why are you here, your kind believes everyone should worship in Jerusalem"
By saying "our fathers worshipped in this mountain" , she evidently refers to the erection of the Samaritan temple on Mt. Gerizim nearly 400 years before her time. However, she may also be be referring to the fact that Jacob built altars at Shechem, which was practically on the slopes of Gerizim. Of course, the Samaritans would be constantly preached to by the Jews that the scriptural place of worship was the temple at Jerusalem.
Samaritans only recognized the first five books of the OT as authoritative. They would not have known of the prophetic promises of salvation from the Jews through God's servant, the devotion and prophecies of the Psalms, or that salvation comes exclusively from the Jews is verified in practically all the prophetical books.
Jesus reminds her that the Samaritans are worshipping in ignorance, and yet the Jews are worshipping that which they know. He then said that "the hour is coming and now is" becuase in His mind, the future is already perfected. In just a few short months, He will have fulfilled the Law, the veil will be rent, and "the hour will have come" when men will no longer be required to worship at one single place.
Her question got the desired result. It sparked a religious discussion, and diverted attention from the subject at hand about her living arrangement.
On a side note:
The hostility between the Samaritans and the Jews was basically over religion as well as a mixed blood, which is why they were considered "unclean".
When he kingdom of Israel was divided in about 926 BC (1 Kings 12), the northern kingdom under Jeroboam enbraced all the territory originally allotted to the ten northern tribes. This kingdom was known as Israel, and encompassed the provinces of Samaria and Galilee. Hoshea, Israel's last king, spurned the powerful nation of Assyria and made a political alliance with Egypt. About the year 722 BC the Assyrian king besieged the capitol city and later carried nearly all the people of the northern kingdom away into slavery and captivity.(II Kings 17) A small remnant of the ten tribes was left. The Assyrians imported foreign people into Samaria in order to better control the conquered territory.
The remnant of the Jews intermarried with the foreign people, and it was these mixed people that were given the name of "Samaritan".
This heathen mixture worshipped idols. God sent wild beasts and many Samaritans were slain. They attributed the plague of lions to their failure to know the Law of God, and they appealed to the king of Assyria for help. He sent them a Jewish priest to "teach them the manner of God of the land". Although the Samaritan religion was very nearly the same as that handed down by Moses, it was most likely tainted with some paganism. That would be one of the main reasons for the aversion of the Jew toward the Samaritan.
Approximatelyu 200 years later after the captivity of the northn tribes, the kingdom of Judah was taken captive by Babylon. Judah was then allowed to return to her homeland in the days of Ezra and Nehemiah. The first thing the people of Judah did was begin reconstruction of the Temple at Jerusalem. In Ezra 4, the Samaritans wanted to join the Jews in rebuilding. The Samaritans were told with contempt, "You have nothing to do with us in building a house unto our God". That caused the Samaritans to start hating the Jews.
Hostility continued and increased since then. Around 409 BC Manasseh built a rival temple on Mt.Gerizim. The Samaritans were generally inhospitibale toward pilgrims from Galilee going to Jerusalem for the feasts, and many went by the way of the eastern side of the Jordan valley.
Heh, the rivalry became so intense that the Samaritans would often set rival fires to perplex and confuse the Jews as they watched for their own signal fires which were to announce the rising of the Passover moon.
The woman's surprise at Jesus even speaking to her would have been largely a part of such a history. The other part of her surprise would have come from Jews not speaking to any woman in public, not even his own wife or daughter.
This foolish tradition was carried to such an extreme that some Pharisees would close their eyes when they saw a woman on the city streets. As a result, they often bumped into walls and houses, and came to be known as "the bruised and bleeding Pharisees."
If Jesus had been a normal Jewish rabbi, He would have gone home immediately and washed Himself because He had been in her presence.
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My ancestors were humans. Sorry to hear about yours.
Bible answer men the way it should be done.
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/2/2008 1:58:54 PM
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heavensmailman
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John-4:16-18 Jesus told her, " Go call your husband and come back." " I have no husband" she said. Jesus said to her, " You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband." ( you have over you ? )
1st Corinthians-11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Could this man be her father, brother or another male of her family? We don't know!
Matthew-22:24 " Teacher," they ( the Sadducees ) said, " Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. Now there were seven brothers among us." Matthew-22:28 " Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven since all of them were married to her?"
John-4:25 The woman said, " I know that Messiah ( called Christ ) is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
Deuteronomy-18:15 The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers.
John-4:26 Then Jesus declared, " I who speak to you am he."
John-4:39 Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, " He told me everything I ever did."
John-4:42 They said to the woman, " We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."
Let us look at this! Jesus said to the woman- " You have had five husbands." The woman in Matthew-22:28 had seven. Did Jesus condemn her, or say that she had sinned? He made a statment, that she had, five husbands. Did the town's people stone her to death? They said, that they did believe her. The Samaritan Bible contained only the Pentateuch. the first five books of our Bible.
Luke-12:57 Jesus said: " Why don't you judge for yourselves WHAT ( not WHO ) is right." We are to judge what a sin is, but never the sinner!
John-8:7 Jesus said: " If anyone of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/2/2008 3:06:45 PM
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lightshineon
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Maybe thinking of woman caught in Adultrey, but i am not sure let me look in John. Her change was dramtic whatever it was.
quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
She was an immoral woman, who the Lord said go and sin no more.
Scripture does not record that Jesus told her "Go and sin no more."
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/2/2008 4:34:11 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Maybe thinking of woman caught in Adultrey, but i am not sure let me look in John. Her change was dramtic whatever it was.
It is wonderful when we have an encounter with Jesus! Our change is ususally dramatic! Good point 
_____________________________
~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/2/2008 5:15:01 PM
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Lapidoth
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As Okami is pointing out, the woman at the well is a descendant of
the Syrians who were put there to replace the Jews that had been
taken into captivities.
The Samaritans have the oldest known "Torah" copy still in existence.
Only problem is, it has over 200 changes in it. The question the woman
was talking about was what her ancestors said and what the Jews say
about where to worship and/or "keep the Feasts."
Commandment #10 in the Samaritan Torah says: "Thou shalt worship
on Mount Gerazim." That was what she was referring to. The Torah
very explicitly dictates that the Festivals have to be kept on Mount Moriah,
the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
This woman was not a Jew. She was a Syrian colonized there.
We read everything through our western mentality and lack of knowledge
of what the Jewish Scriptures really are saying.
Was she a floozy? Probably.
But even with floozies of our day, if they are not born again, it doesn't matter.
The cleanest of us all go straight to hell if we do not have the blood covering
of Jesus Christ on our lives. The biggest floozy winds up in the same place for
the same reason. Not because they are a floozy. Saint or Floozy, we are a new
creation once we encounter the Messiah properly. Bless His Name.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/2/2008 11:01:47 PM
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heavensmailman
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Matthew-7:1-2 Jesus said: " Do not judge, or you too will be judged. for in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you ."
1st Peter-1:17-18 Peter writes: " For it is time for judgement to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And, " If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
As for me, since God our Father appointed our Lord, Jesus, his Son as judge of the living and the dead, I will not pass judgement on another!
Acts-17:31 And in Acts-10:42 -- Luke writes: " He ( Jesus ) commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that HE is the one ( and only one) whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead."
Peter writes, obey the gospel of God. In the gospel of Matthew-- Jesus said: " Do not judge," This is real easy for even me to understand. Peace
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/2/2008 11:25:20 PM
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Okami
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Here is one you forgot:
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
And what did any of those old out of context favorites have to do with the point of the thread to being with?
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My ancestors were humans. Sorry to hear about yours.
Bible answer men the way it should be done.
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/3/2008 3:20:50 AM
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i_believe
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Many have strong opinions regarding specific areas of weakness. Some may have their conscious stirred as did this woman. But we must look at the forest and no be distracted by the trees (i.e. the woman or her sin).
Joh 4:35-39 Don't you say, 'There are yet four months until the harvest?' Behold, I tell you, lift up your eyes, and look at the fields, that they are white for harvest already. (36) He who reaps receives wages, and gathers fruit to eternal life; that both he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. (37) For in this the saying is true, 'One sows, and another reaps.' (38) I sent you to reap that for which you haven't labored. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor." (39) From that city many of the Samaritans believed in him because of the word of the woman, who testified, "He told me everything that I did."
Eph 5:8-10 For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as children of light, (9) for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth, (10) proving what is well pleasing to the Lord.
She was once darkness but she became light in the Lord.
She acted as a witness for Christ in Samaria.
A woman with questionable status and background was a vessel used by the Lord to bring many out of darkness.
2Co 4:7 But we have this treasure in clay vessels, that the exceeding greatness of the power may be of God, and not from ourselves.
It is never about us... it is always about Him!
_____________________________
Grace and Peace,
IB
Phi 3:12 Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect; but I press on...
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/4/2008 5:12:57 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
She was an immoral woman, who the Lord said go and sin no more.
Scripture does not record that Jesus told her "Go and sin no more."
Many critcize the Apistolic Writings because they believe that women are underrepresented, but there are several accounts. Unfortunately, some of these have been attributed the Myrium of Magdela, even when she is not mentioned. We need to be careful to clearify when we are speculating and when we are quoting Scripture.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/5/2008 10:27:45 PM
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DanBryan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drk6
In a recent sermon at church, the pastor pointed out that scripture does not support what I have always thought and have always been taught about the woman at the well in John 4. I have always approached this passage believing that she was an immoral woman who has had five husbands and was currently living with another man. But the pastor pointed out that no where in scripture is this presumption supported. She may have had husbands die or abandon her and be living with a kinsman redeemer who won’t or can’t marry her. Does anyone have any other passages that they are aware of, that the common understanding and what is generally taught about a particular passage may not be supported by scripture?
Great story and topic here Dan! I agree with the sermon, we have no reason to negatively reflect on this woman.
Today, we in the west, read this passage through the glasses of our present-day sociological mind-set, as well as our modern norms of expectations for peoples.
If we look at this woman in the western view point we can receive the image here that this woman was a tramp, whore, sleezy etc,etc
• She made wrong choices
• She could not control her sex drive
• She was at least immoral and at worst totally deprived
• She hangs out at the well to see who she would be able to trap in her web today.
As there were no judgments made of her in the biblical text that defined her moral state, rather just her circumstance.
We could also see another possible story defining her condition and her moral state.
To understand where I am going with this, please look at the present treatment of women in the Arab world.
I know a woman that married a (bad) Arab in the USA, she was extremely controlled by the husband.
After failing to ‘Honor’ his ego with a child and he dumped her.
In some areas in the Arab world all the man has to say is ‘I Divorce You’ three times, and it is done.
One can assume that in that day of this woman it may have even been worse.
So her story could be as such:
1) She was infertile and was continuously put aside.
2) She was not infertile always having girls, but she never produced a ‘Man Child’
3) She was not attractive and became perpetually abused.
4) As a final act of survival, she was working as a slave with the last man so that she could have a roof over her head
In any case I see this woman could have been the most abused woman in the then known world.
The story either way shows the love of God for the least of these, his children.
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/5/2008 10:53:19 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Okami
Here is one you forgot:
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
And what did any of those old out of context favorites have to do with the point of the thread to being with?
I am not certain who you are addressing here...but did you look up the town "Sycar"? It means "drunken"......Yes, judge righteous judgement...
_____________________________
~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/5/2008 11:40:22 PM
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heavensmailman
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Did Jesus test this woman by saying to her, " Go, call your husband and come back?" Did she tell the truth? Could it be that the reader of this story is also being tested?
Mathew-5:22 Jesus said: " But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgement. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ' Raca' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ' You Fool !' will be in danger of the fire of hell." What about calling a sister a floozy or worse, what will happen? Peace
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/6/2008 12:40:16 AM
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Okami
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
quote:
ORIGINAL: Okami
Here is one you forgot:
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
And what did any of those old out of context favorites have to do with the point of the thread to being with?
I am not certain who you are addressing here...but did you look up the town "Sycar"? It means "drunken"......Yes, judge righteous judgement...
I was addressing Heavenmailman. He just kind of stuck his head in and instead of addressing the OP, just listed off verses containing the word "judge" out of context.
_____________________________
My ancestors were humans. Sorry to hear about yours.
Bible answer men the way it should be done.
No shows focused on their books, their guests books, nor religion bashing. Just calls and answers.
http://www.csnradio.com/tema
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/6/2008 1:14:28 AM
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heavensmailman
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I gave it a shot three times, not two? I am done !
Like the old lady said as she kissed the cow, to each his own !
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/9/2008 3:06:11 PM
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9drtr
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Because of changes in culture, we all read the Bible outside the context in which it was written. Because of that, it is really impossible to determine at this distance who or what she was.
Personally, I think she probably had fallen in an immoral life.
It doesn't matter, though. She is my sister in Christ, and when I meet her in Heaven I will not be so rude as to bring up the subject.
_____________________________
Edwin
When we know who is coming, how can we worry about what is coming? When the last hour belongs to us, how can we worry about the next minute?
Ross Crighton
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/13/2008 8:16:53 AM
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DaveW
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Let me suggest an alternate explaination.
Joh 4:15 The woman said to Him, "Sir, give me this water, so I will not be thirsty nor come all the way here to draw."
Joh 4:16 He *said to her, "Go, call your husband and come here."
Joh 4:17 The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus *said to her, "You have correctly said, 'I have no husband';
Joh 4:18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly."
Joh 4:19 The woman *said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.
While the Jews had allowed (contrary to Torah) women to divorce their husbands, the Samaritans had not. The most common reason for divorce in Samaritan society was barrenness. If this woman had 5 previous husbands, and they all divorced her is is very likely she had reproductive problems of some sort. She was not married to the man she lived with currently. It was possible that he just had pity on her on the street and took her in - acts of charity and mercy were very important in both Jewish and Samaritan societies.
Since the townfolk listened to her about HIM at the well, I find it unlikely that she was that much of a hated person. It may have been that seeing all the women with their kids in tow going to the well early was just too sad for her to bear and she came later alone.
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RE: Was the woman at the well a floozy? (reading into s... - 3/13/2008 2:06:06 PM
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Bluethread
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Joined: 11/8/2007
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It is very likely that Yeshua was asking about her husband in order to be proper. Biblically, it is not correct for a man to instruct a woman unless he is in a position to be responsible for her. Thus, she should be seeking her spiritual guidance from her husband or father. This also lessens the chance of improper relations.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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