|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 9:39:02 PM
|
|
|
jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
The Supreme Court ruled, today I believe, that the people we've been holding without charge in Guantanamo Bay have the right to confront their charges in a court of law.
I can't say how pleased I am with this ruling as it forces the administration to abide by the rule of law. The threat of terrorism is NO excuse for violations of the rule of law.
The President remarked that he had to abide by the high court's ruling but he didn't have to like it. He went on to say that perhaps new legislation would be looked into.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 9:39:53 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2212
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
Again, POWs are not protected by our Constitution....
quote:
I can't say how pleased I am with this ruling as it forces the administration to abide by the rule of law.
However most on the left were totally in favor of Bill Clinton lying under oath.....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 9:45:39 PM
|
|
|
jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Again, POWs are not protected by our Constitution....
quote:
I can't say how pleased I am with this ruling as it forces the administration to abide by the rule of law.
However most on the left were totally in favor of Bill Clinton lying under oath.....
You are wrong.
Aside from the Geneva Convention, which provides for the protection of POWs there's also the Federal Anti-Torture Act, which we've been in violation of as well.
The Supreme Court ruled that the rule of law applies, even to our prisoners at Gitmo. Even they are entitled to know what they're being charged with. No one should be held indefinitely and without charge, doing so is immoral and evil.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 9:50:35 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2212
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
No, you are wrong. The Geneva Convention does not apply to outfits like Al Quaeda. Do some homework.
And according to the left, even things like sleep deprivation and loud music are considered "torture".
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 9:53:18 PM
|
|
|
jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
No, you are wrong. The Geneva Convention does not apply to outfits like Al Quaeda. Do some homework.
And according to the left, even things like sleep deprivation and loud music are considered "torture".
Nice try.
Unless the Geneva Convention applies to all, it's meaningless. Of course given that the President lied about the use of torture in the first place I'm not really surprised at his reaction to the ruling.
The rule of law applies to all or not at all.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 9:55:45 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2212
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
Try reading the Geneva Convention sometime. It applies to uniformed soldiers from established nations. Not thugs and murderers enforcing an ideology....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 9:57:23 PM
|
|
|
jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Try reading the Geneva Convention sometime. It applies to uniformed soldiers from established nations. Not thugs and murderers enforcing an ideology....
If they aren't soldiers then they should be tried by civilian courts. Military tribunals should apply to enemy soldiers, not criminals and thugs as you call them. And if they fall under the jurisdiction of the civilian courts then they should be afforded the right of Habeus Corpus.
Thanks for proving me right.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 9:59:42 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2212
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
But you forget, they are not American citizens, so they should have no more rights under our Constitution than we would have if we were in their country...
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:04:44 PM
|
|
|
mapachito13
Posts: 2019
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
|
I am amazed that conservatives are whining about this ruling. I thought conservatism was about LESS government intrusion into our lives not living in a POLICE STATE!!! I guess I'm wrong about that one or are the likes of Rush & friends two-faced with two constitutions, one for them and another for me and you?
Right now under the patriot act you can be monitored just under the sole reason you are hooked into the internet. Oh I also enjoy how now city governments are starting regular "sobriety checkpoints" as an excuse to perform blanket searches with the only probable cause that you are driving a car!
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:08:04 PM
|
|
|
jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
But you forget, they are not American citizens, so they should have no more rights under our Constitution than we would have if we were in their country...
Then deport them back to their country of origin. Again, the rule of law.
You can't have it both ways. Either they're enemy soldiers, and thus protected under the Geneva Conventions, or they're civilians and must face due process under our civilian courts OR be sent packing to their homelands. The administration has tried, unsuccessfully now, to say that they had no protection, and with the Supreme Court's ruling there's some teeth to enforce what many of us have been saying for a while now.
The ends never justify the means. What the country has been doing is immoral and evil. It's the kind of behaviour I'd expect out of Stalin's Russia to be honest.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:08:51 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2212
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
Keeping detainees detained as part of the WOT is hardly a police state.
And I'm still waiting for somebody, ANYBODY to tell us of a single right they THEY PERSONALLY have lost.
Anyone? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:09:46 PM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 961
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
You don't even want to know how the cops stopped and hassled my son the other night, whose only crime was probably having long hair . Suffice to say, it was illegal and the pair who pulled him over didn't care and told him so. their probable cause for searching his car without a warrant? "You look nervous". YOU LOOK NERVOUS??? Gimme a break. The old line of "if I haven't done anything wrong, I have nothing to fear" is no longer true in America. Please don't delude yourselves that it is.
< Message edited by relady -- 6/12/2008 10:16:38 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:09:58 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2212
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
The ends never justify the means. What the country has been doing is immoral and evil. It's the kind of behaviour I'd expect out of Stalin's Russia to be honest
Ah, the good old, "blame America first" ideology. Gotta love it.... 
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:10:25 PM
|
|
|
jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Keeping detainees detained as part of the WOT is hardly a police state.
And I'm still waiting for somebody, ANYBODY to tell us of a single right they THEY PERSONALLY have lost.
Anyone? Anyone? Beuller? Beuller?
See this is an example of a strawman argument.
It doesn't hold water because there are documented cases of these things happening. That they haven't happened to you, or even people here does not negate the fact that it's happened.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:10:26 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2531
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
Aside from the Geneva Convention
The Geneva Covention DOES NOT apply. To apply the combatants must be flying the flag of a soveriegn country and be wearing a unifrom.
To give terrorists the rights of a US citizen is absurd. There is no jurisprudence for this ruling.
What are our solidiers on the battlefield to do when the capture someone? Read them their Miranda Rights? The best thing to do is just to kill them before they are capture. With this ruling the thugs and killers in Gitmo have the right to sue the US government! Just shoot first and leave them on the battlefield to rot.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:11:16 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2212
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
You don't even want to know how the cops stopped and hassled my son the other night, whose only crime was probably having long hair . Suffice to say, it was illegal and the pair who pulled him over didn't care and told him so. their probably cause for searching his car without a warrant? "You look nervous". YOU LOOK NERVOUS??? Gimme a break. The old line of "if I haven't done anything wrong, I have nothing to fear" is no longer true in America
And Bush was responsible for this.....how? I've been pulled over a number of times for reasons I thought were lacking. But I didn't go off half cocked and start blaming the government.
C'mon, guys, you can do better than that....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:12:40 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2531
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
It doesn't hold water because there are documented cases of these things happening. That they haven't happened to you, or even people here does not negate the fact that it's happened.
They are terrorists captured on the battlefield. They have NO rights as citizens because they are not American citizens.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:12:45 PM
|
|
|
jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Aside from the Geneva Convention
The Geneva Covention DOES NOT apply. To apply the combatants must be flying the flag of a soveriegn country and be wearing a unifrom.
To give terrorists the rights of a US citizen is absurd. There is no jurisprudence for this ruling.
What are our solidiers on the battlefield to do when the capture someone? Read them their Miranda Rights? The best thing to do is just to kill them before they are capture. With this ruling the thugs and killers in Gitmo have the right to sue the US government! Just shoot first and leave them on the battlefield to rot.
Well that's certainly a Christian attitude. At least you're honest though.
You cannot hold a person indefintely with no charge. It's immoral. There is zero argument around that simple fact.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:14:44 PM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 961
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
quote:
And Bush was responsible for this.....how? the Patriot act has made this type of behavior much easier to get away with. My son very calmly asserted his right to not have his car searched without a warrant and they went ballistic and told him they needed no reason. Unacceptable behavior and much more prevalent since 2001.
Just because you don't "feel" you've lost rights doesn't mean you haven't. It just hasn't affected you. Yet. But it will.
quote:
I've been pulled over a number of times for reasons I thought were lacking. They stated no reason for pulling him over. Never did. Very illegal behavior, but again, much more prevalent and accepted because the Patriot Act has made it so.
< Message edited by relady -- 6/12/2008 10:21:45 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:14:50 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2212
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
To those cheering this ruling, I have to ask....do you want the US to win in the WOT or not?
Anytime someone supports a move which weakens our war effort, you just gotta ask....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:15:48 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2531
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
Either they're enemy soldiers, and thus protected under the Geneva Conventions
Theu are NOT protected under the Geneve Convention
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:16:28 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2212
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
Um, relady, cops can search a car without a warrant if they feel there is reasonable cause. It happens every day on roads all over America and has been happening for decades.
Call the local police station and I think you'll be informed that it is perfectly acceptable and legal procedure...
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:16:41 PM
|
|
|
jkdjr25
Posts: 726
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
To those cheering this ruling, I have to ask....do you want the US to win in the WOT or not?
Anytime someone supports a move which weakens our war effort, you just gotta ask....
And we have a winner!
Attempting to neuter the discussion by implying that those of us who agree with the high court's ruling want the terrorists to win.
Thank you for proving my earlier point perfectly.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:17:27 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2531
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
You cannot hold a person indefintely with no charge. It's immoral. There is zero argument around that simple fact.
On a civilian charge this is true, but this is war.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Supreme Court Gets It Right - 6/12/2008 10:17:35 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 2212
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
I notice you didn't answer the question......
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
