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Sound advise - 7/22/2008 12:20:45 PM
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quaidnewcome
Posts: 227
Joined: 8/3/2007
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I've thought for a long time that it would be great to have a thread specifically for those of us who operate the PA systems for Southern Gospel groups/churches/ those who work in recording studios, or anything else that revolves around doing sound in the Lord's work.
If you're like me, you are a sound nut......you could eat and sleep at a live or studio sound system. Any general sound questions/advise...any very specific sound questions...let's post 'em. Hope we all can help each other learn more about efficently and properly operating the PA.
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RE: Sound advise - 7/22/2008 12:29:51 PM
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quaidnewcome
Posts: 227
Joined: 8/3/2007
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First off, I noticed that on the Inspirations' 40th Anniversary Reunion video that every member, except Mike Holcombe, were using Audio-Technica Pro 37 condenser mics. Those are great mics, I have 2 or 3 of them. Many people want to use them for bass singers.
But, in my opionion, they add too much "mud" to a bass vocalist, especially if it's running through a PA system equipped with subwoofers. I've tried singing bass with them, and find it harder (compared to using other mics) to clarify my voice, thus it's hard to understand the words.
I noticed on the video the exact same thing when Marlin Shebert sang bass. He was harder to understand than Mike.
So my question is, what mic is Mike (say that 5 times fast  ) using during that concert? It somewhat resembles, in shape, a Shure PG81, but I don't really think that's what it is. The capsule looks to large to be one of those.
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RE: Sound advise - 7/23/2008 9:32:36 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1398
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: quaidnewcome
I've thought for a long time that it would be great to have a thread specifically for those of us who operate the PA systems for Southern Gospel groups/churches/ those who work in recording studios, or anything else that revolves around doing sound in the Lord's work.
If you're like me, you are a sound nut......you could eat and sleep at a live or studio sound system. Any general sound questions/advise...any very specific sound questions...let's post 'em. Hope we all can help each other learn more about efficently and properly operating the PA.
I cut my teeth doing sound in nightclubs and with a regional sound company doing shows anywhere in size from a 16ch Mackie w/ a PA-on-a-stick to a 48ch Midas & Vertec 4889's. Right now I work for a pro audio equipment dealership that has a recording studio built around a heavily modded Yamaha PM2K, iZ Radar, & Logic Pro 8. My current interest is not so much in recording music, but in recording sound effects/foley and sound design for video games. I've just started trying to develop my own Half-Life 2 mod so I can get some practice integrating audio into a game.
My church is doing some upgrades to their PA system and if we only had another $30K, we could get some of the toys that I want to play with every week. oh well. 
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Sound advise - 7/23/2008 9:35:33 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1398
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: quaidnewcome
First off, I noticed that on the Inspirations' 40th Anniversary Reunion video that every member, except Mike Holcombe, were using Audio-Technica Pro 37 condenser mics. Those are great mics, I have 2 or 3 of them. Many people want to use them for bass singers.
But, in my opionion, they add too much "mud" to a bass vocalist, especially if it's running through a PA system equipped with subwoofers. I've tried singing bass with them, and find it harder (compared to using other mics) to clarify my voice, thus it's hard to understand the words.
I noticed on the video the exact same thing when Marlin Shebert sang bass. He was harder to understand than Mike.
So my question is, what mic is Mike (say that 5 times fast ) using during that concert? It somewhat resembles, in shape, a Shure PG81, but I don't really think that's what it is. The capsule looks to large to be one of those.
I'm not an SG fan, so I'm not familiar with these videos, but I am familiar with the fact that many singers prefer using SDC microphones. Can someone explain to me how you guys deals with the handling noise from these mics? Normally, I'd put a HPF on a vocal mic somewhere around 80-100Hz, but that would defeat the purpose of using a mic with an extended LF response for a bass singer.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Sound advise - 7/23/2008 10:01:49 PM
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servants
Posts: 154
Joined: 8/16/2006
From: Hays,NC
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Our quartet uses 4 Shure wireless 24slx/beta87c mics, 2 EV ZX4's for main speakers, 2 EV Eliminator Subs, 2 EV ZX1's for monitors, Allen & Heath Mix Wiz 3 and a DBX drive rack system amoung other stuff but that covers the main stuff. We really like it. We have had a lot of other equipment but we like this combo best.
_____________________________
Thank God I'm Forever Changed.
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RE: Sound advise - 7/23/2008 10:07:40 PM
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armydude
Posts: 14777
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: quaidnewcome
I've thought for a long time that it would be great to have a thread specifically for those of us who operate the PA systems for Southern Gospel groups/churches/ those who work in recording studios, or anything else that revolves around doing sound in the Lord's work.
If you're like me, you are a sound nut......you could eat and sleep at a live or studio sound system. Any general sound questions/advise...any very specific sound questions...let's post 'em. Hope we all can help each other learn more about efficently and properly operating the PA.
I just noticed this. I operate the sound equipment at my church. I'll check in tomorrow, but as of now, I'm going to bed.
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A good question, eh?
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RE: Sound advise - 7/24/2008 9:24:24 AM
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quaidnewcome
Posts: 227
Joined: 8/3/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: quaidnewcome
First off, I noticed that on the Inspirations' 40th Anniversary Reunion video that every member, except Mike Holcombe, were using Audio-Technica Pro 37 condenser mics. Those are great mics, I have 2 or 3 of them. Many people want to use them for bass singers.
But, in my opionion, they add too much "mud" to a bass vocalist, especially if it's running through a PA system equipped with subwoofers. I've tried singing bass with them, and find it harder (compared to using other mics) to clarify my voice, thus it's hard to understand the words.
I noticed on the video the exact same thing when Marlin Shebert sang bass. He was harder to understand than Mike.
So my question is, what mic is Mike (say that 5 times fast ) using during that concert? It somewhat resembles, in shape, a Shure PG81, but I don't really think that's what it is. The capsule looks to large to be one of those.
I'm not an SG fan, so I'm not familiar with these videos, but I am familiar with the fact that many singers prefer using SDC microphones. Can someone explain to me how you guys deals with the handling noise from these mics? Normally, I'd put a HPF on a vocal mic somewhere around 80-100Hz, but that would defeat the purpose of using a mic with an extended LF response for a bass singer.
-Dan.
No, it doesn't "defeat the purpose". Low-cuts are absolutley vital in preventing power-robbing "pops" and "thuds". For instance, if someone drops a mic, without the low cut engaged, you could very eaisily damage the woofers in your system.
I've found that a cleaner, more articulate bass vocal can be producud with the low cut engaged (my Carvin boards have 75Hz, 18 deciable-per-octive filters) and the low EQ on a channel strip slightly boosted.
In addition, using the low cut switch/knob on a master graphic or parametric EQ and/or power amp will optomise the sound and help preserve system headroom.
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RE: Sound advise - 7/24/2008 9:28:08 AM
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quaidnewcome
Posts: 227
Joined: 8/3/2007
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Another thing, AT Pro 37's were originally designed as acoustic instrument mics. So the high end rolls off more so than on other mics. It's frequency responce within + or - 3db is 30Hz-15KHz. Pratically all good vocal mics have a frequency responce up to at least 18KHz, with the majority of condensers stretching to 20KHz. Beleive me, it makes a huge audiable difference.
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RE: Sound advise - 7/24/2008 9:36:57 AM
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quaidnewcome
Posts: 227
Joined: 8/3/2007
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A great web resource for tech tips about sound systems is on Rane's website, in their RaneNote Tutorials:
http://www.rane.com/library.html#rnotes
I followed the procedures of the one about gain structure, and honestly, heard a major improvement, ((specifically in the S/N ratio (that's signal-to-noise ratio)) in the system's quallity. Check it out here:
http://www.rane.com/note135.html
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RE: Sound advise - 7/25/2008 8:42:50 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1398
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: quaidnewcome
Another thing, AT Pro 37's were originally designed as acoustic instrument mics. So the high end rolls off more so than on other mics. It's frequency responce within + or - 3db is 30Hz-15KHz. Pratically all good vocal mics have a frequency responce up to at least 18KHz, with the majority of condensers stretching to 20KHz. Beleive me, it makes a huge audiable difference.
How does that bump at 8KHz affect sibilance?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Sound advise - 7/25/2008 1:44:03 PM
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quaidnewcome
Posts: 227
Joined: 8/3/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: quaidnewcome
Another thing, AT Pro 37's were originally designed as acoustic instrument mics. So the high end rolls off more so than on other mics. It's frequency responce within + or - 3db is 30Hz-15KHz. Pratically all good vocal mics have a frequency responce up to at least 18KHz, with the majority of condensers stretching to 20KHz. Beleive me, it makes a huge audiable difference.
How does that bump at 8KHz affect sibilance?
-Dan.
You mean on the Pro 37's frequency responce chart?
Wait.............upon looking at the brochure that came with the mic, I see that, yes there is a 3 or 4 db bump @ 8KHz.
Of course, if you stick it in front of a singer who over- enuncuates, you may notice some sibliance. In addition, as I'm sure you're aware, the amount of sibilacne depends on how sensitive an operator's hearing is, how the mic is EQ'd ,what type of horns/tweeters a system has, the amount of power going to them, and more so, the EQ curve of the system's master EQ.
Also an operator needs to consider the type of effects are being used. For
example, I've found that plates tend to increase sibilance more so than any other effect I've tried.
As for my usage and preferances, I can't stand to hear sibilance, and want to have absolutley NONE. With that said, I've never had a sibilance problem when using the Pro 37's.
The best place I've found to buy them is All Pro Sound, out of Pensacola, Florida. You can get them there for around $90-$99. In addition, All Pro Sound spefically gives additional discounts to those who are ordering for chruches, and schools.
I've seen those mics @ Sweetwater (in Ft. Wayne, Indiana) and in Musicians Friend (Oregon) for $139. A in state store I've done buisness with called Sound Ideas had them in a catalog for $169.
Go figure...........AT's factory is in Akron, Ohio. Sound Ideas in in Columbus, Ohio. But I have to order out of Flordia to get the best price. 
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RE: Sound advise - 7/29/2008 9:30:38 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1398
Joined: 4/12/2005
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If anybody's interested, a guy on the TapeOp message board is selling a pair of these for $170 + shipping:
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=57022
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Sound advise - 8/6/2008 9:22:04 AM
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quaidnewcome
Posts: 227
Joined: 8/3/2007
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Anyone ever use or hear the Electro-Voice ZX1-90 speaker?
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RE: Sound advise - 8/6/2008 11:53:45 AM
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prt3348
Posts: 47
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: Talladega,AL
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Yes, The ZX I-90 is a small near-field speaker. 200-300W this speaker
would be used primarily for choir fills in a church sanctuary or other close-in uses.(monitors for a singing group or musicians) great little speakers
_____________________________
SOUND BROKERS / INSTALLERS
PRESTIGE QUARTET
www.shoutlife.com/prestigequartet
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RE: Sound advise - 8/6/2008 1:22:02 PM
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servants
Posts: 154
Joined: 8/16/2006
From: Hays,NC
Status: offline
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We use the ZX1 speakers for monitors and they work great. They have plenty of volume and a good sound.
_____________________________
Thank God I'm Forever Changed.
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RE: Sound advise - 8/7/2008 2:58:55 PM
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quaidnewcome
Posts: 227
Joined: 8/3/2007
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I need to sell a Mackie 24.8 board, it's meter bridge, and power supply. If anyone's interested, send me a PM.
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