|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 7/31/2008 5:41:55 PM
|
|
|
SavedToo
Posts: 98
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
Meat eating plants such as the Venus Fly Trap are very rare indeed. If Neo-Darwinism were true, we would expect them to be the norm because they are more fit since they are dual feeders.
But then again, Neo-Darwinism is a pure fantasy.
Also, I wonder how vegetarians feel about them?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 7/31/2008 10:08:57 PM
|
|
|
Method
Posts: 1162
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedToo
Meat eating plants such as the Venus Fly Trap are very rare indeed. If Neo-Darwinism were true, we would expect them to be the norm because they are more fit since they are dual feeders.
But then again, Neo-Darwinism is a pure fantasy.
Also, I wonder how vegetarians feel about them?
If meat eating plants are more fit than their photosynthesizing-only cousins then why are there more photosynthesizing-only plants?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 7/31/2008 11:02:04 PM
|
|
|
wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedToo
Meat eating plants such as the Venus Fly Trap are very rare indeed. If Neo-Darwinism were true, we would expect them to be the norm because they are more fit since they are dual feeders.
But then again, Neo-Darwinism is a pure fantasy.
Also, I wonder how vegetarians feel about them?
This constitutes proof that someone is wrong, but I'm not sure it's Darwin.
Are bacteria dual feeders? Because they are the absolute most abundant form of life on the planet. In fact beetles and bacteria reign supreme by ANY measure of fitness, longevity, or reproductive success. They were here before we were here and before dinosours were here, and they'll be here LONG after we're gone.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 7/31/2008 11:11:41 PM
|
|
|
Carico
Posts: 532
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedToo
Meat eating plants such as the Venus Fly Trap are very rare indeed. If Neo-Darwinism were true, we would expect them to be the norm because they are more fit since they are dual feeders.
But then again, Neo-Darwinism is a pure fantasy.
Also, I wonder how vegetarians feel about them?
If Darwinism were true, we humans would be evolving into a species superior to ourselves as well. I wonder what they would be, gods perhaps? 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 7/31/2008 11:58:47 PM
|
|
|
wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedToo
Meat eating plants such as the Venus Fly Trap are very rare indeed. If Neo-Darwinism were true, we would expect them to be the norm because they are more fit since they are dual feeders.
But then again, Neo-Darwinism is a pure fantasy.
Also, I wonder how vegetarians feel about them?
If Darwinism were true, we humans would be evolving into a species superior to ourselves as well. I wonder what they would be, gods perhaps?
Why would we do that? Even if your comment didn't ignore the dreadfully long time such a process would be expected to take, we pose a significant problem for evolution by natural selection. We know about it. It happens on its own when natural law is the only law, but with full knowledge of its processes, we have no obligation to abide.
This is evidenced by our meddling in normally natural affairs like lifespan and basically the whole of medical endeavor.
The natural system checks itself, and balances itself. In our system you can be disgustingly fat and lazy and live to be 80 years old. Since we have stopped the natural chain of checks and balances, we are 6+ billion strong and growing rapidly, more rapidly than any of the other 60+ upright ape species for which we have found full skeletons. Indeed self awareness would appear to be a natural blunder with grave consequences. Something has to give.
But what?
If you want to argue along those lines then argue that other animals would be developing intelligence like ours, especially with us to learn from. At least then you'll only be ignoring the time problem.
< Message edited by wayward1 -- 8/1/2008 12:05:56 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 1:41:06 AM
|
|
|
swan42
Posts: 347
Joined: 5/3/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedToo
Meat eating plants such as the Venus Fly Trap are very rare indeed. If Neo-Darwinism were true, we would expect them to be the norm because they are more fit since they are dual feeders.
But then again, Neo-Darwinism is a pure fantasy.
Also, I wonder how vegetarians feel about them?
These guys are slippery, the thread topic is about Darwin, but the first post is about Neo-Darwinism.
Darwin was wrong about many things and right about others. The fact that we recognize when set aside the mistakes of the past is virtue of science.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 1:43:10 AM
|
|
|
swan42
Posts: 347
Joined: 5/3/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
If Darwinism were true, we humans would be evolving into a species superior to ourselves as well. I wonder what they would be, gods perhaps?
1. An evolved species not have to be 'superior'. Orchids are highly evolved, but the term superior as you use it is a human opinion.
2. Maybe we are.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 4:28:19 AM
|
|
|
BVZ
Posts: 482
Joined: 11/2/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedToo
Meat eating plants such as the Venus Fly Trap are very rare indeed. If Neo-Darwinism were true, we would expect them to be the norm because they are more fit since they are dual feeders.
Why?
quote:
But then again, Neo-Darwinism is a pure fantasy.
Strange thing to call something verified with scientific evidence.
quote:
Also, I wonder how vegetarians feel about them?
Why? Is it relevant?
SavedToo, you dont know what you are talking about. You don't even begin to understand evolution.
Here is a question for you:
Do you want to be educated regarding evolution?
If you answer no, then please go away. If you don't want to learn about something you obviously know nothing about, why should we waste our time? And since you know nothing about the topic at hand, what can you add to the debate?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 12:20:17 PM
|
|
|
evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
Status: offline
|
quote:
and they'll be here LONG after we're gone.
Well, God will destroy this earth with fire after the millennial reign, so don't believe they will be around. I hope, for your sake, you will find Jesus Christ before He comes back, for the consequences of being left behind is something I can guarantee you will not wish to suffer.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 12:51:37 PM
|
|
|
wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
and they'll be here LONG after we're gone.
Well, God will destroy this earth with fire after the millennial reign, so don't believe they will be around. I hope, for your sake, you will find Jesus Christ before He comes back, for the consequences of being left behind is something I can guarantee you will not wish to suffer.
Can you guarantee it? Or can you guarantee that what you understand it to be would be something I will not wish to suffer?
How will the fire kill the bacteria at the bottom of the ocean or any other life in the ocean for that matter?
And why would God kill all the beings without souls who had no way to worship him? That's just rude.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 2:07:12 PM
|
|
|
drj11
Posts: 632
Joined: 3/29/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
and they'll be here LONG after we're gone.
Well, God will destroy this earth with fire after the millennial reign, so don't believe they will be around. I hope, for your sake, you will find Jesus Christ before He comes back, for the consequences of being left behind is something I can guarantee you will not wish to suffer.
Arguments like this always appear quite desperate. You've run out of ways to reasonably and rationally argue for your beliefs so you appeal to fear. If you find yourself having to resort to this type of argument, it might be time to reconsider why you believe what you do.
So if God's going to destroy the earth with fire, doesnt that go back against his promise never to commit worldwide genocide again (by flood the first time)?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 4:06:31 PM
|
|
|
evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: wayward1
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
and they'll be here LONG after we're gone.
Well, God will destroy this earth with fire after the millennial reign, so don't believe they will be around. I hope, for your sake, you will find Jesus Christ before He comes back, for the consequences of being left behind is something I can guarantee you will not wish to suffer.
Can you guarantee it? Or can you guarantee that what you understand it to be would be something I will not wish to suffer?
How will the fire kill the bacteria at the bottom of the ocean or any other life in the ocean for that matter?
And why would God kill all the beings without souls who had no way to worship him? That's just rude.
I'm just letting you know what God' Word says, that's all. It's not my opinion, it's God's.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 4:11:48 PM
|
|
|
Method
Posts: 1162
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
I'm just letting you know what God' Word says, that's all. It's not my opinion, it's God's.
According to Allah's Word we are both in trouble.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 4:24:24 PM
|
|
|
evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: drj11
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
and they'll be here LONG after we're gone.
Well, God will destroy this earth with fire after the millennial reign, so don't believe they will be around. I hope, for your sake, you will find Jesus Christ before He comes back, for the consequences of being left behind is something I can guarantee you will not wish to suffer.
Arguments like this always appear quite desperate. You've run out of ways to reasonably and rationally argue for your beliefs so you appeal to fear. If you find yourself having to resort to this type of argument, it might be time to reconsider why you believe what you do.
So if God's going to destroy the earth with fire, doesnt that go back against his promise never to commit worldwide genocide again (by flood the first time)?
No fear here. I am just letting wayward know that the dogma evolutionists teach is not what God says. Evolutionists make man out to be worthless animals, no better than the 6-pointer I have mounted on my bedroom wall. Evolutionists destroy who and what man is. Evolution makes mankind the most depressing living, breathing things on this earth, because man has the capability of realizing the label of worthlessness evolutionists, like you, have placed on them.
But God loves you, and does not treat you like your pet monkey. He has given you a way to escape, a peace at heart that you are someone whom He cares about, whom He BEGS to accept Him so He can spend the rest of eternity with you. He loves you. No fear tactics here. The only fear here is the fear of depression and worthlessness taught to so many ignorant high school students all over the world by you and yours . THAT, my friend, is fear. At least God offers love and hope. There's no love or hope in evolution, especially after a quote like this.
"They were here before we were here and before dinosours were here, and they'll be here LONG after we're gone."
BOY, what a DELIGHTFUL way of thinking...We are all an accident of evolution, and we will all die as mere animals - worthless. Can you imagine the feelings and emotions a 12 year old must survive when he/she hears this?! Evolution is fear. God is hope. BIG difference!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 4:25:44 PM
|
|
|
evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
Status: offline
|
quote:
According to Allah's Word we are both in trouble.
Have fun following Him!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 5:00:05 PM
|
|
|
EStan
Posts: 290
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline
|
I just love seeing the S&O bullies at work.
_____________________________
Eternal Father, grant that through the tears of repentance I may see more clearly the brightness and glories of the saving cross.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 5:09:38 PM
|
|
|
drj11
Posts: 632
Joined: 3/29/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
No fear here. I am just letting wayward know that the dogma evolutionists teach is not what God says. Evolutionists make man out to be worthless animals, no better than the 6-pointer I have mounted on my bedroom wall. Evolutionists destroy who and what man is. Evolution makes mankind the most depressing living, breathing things on this earth, because man has the capability of realizing the label of worthlessness evolutionists, like you, have placed on them.
But God loves you, and does not treat you like your pet monkey. He has given you a way to escape, a peace at heart that you are someone whom He cares about, whom He BEGS to accept Him so He can spend the rest of eternity with you. He loves you. No fear tactics here.
The fear tactic is threatening people with hell. Believe or else!
quote:
The only fear here is the fear of depression and worthlessness taught to so many ignorant high school students all over the world by you and yours . THAT, my friend, is fear. At least God offers love and hope. There's no love or hope in evolution, especially after a quote like this.
"They were here before we were here and before dinosours were here, and they'll be here LONG after we're gone."
BOY, what a DELIGHTFUL way of thinking...We are all an accident of evolution, and we will all die as mere animals - worthless. Can you imagine the feelings and emotions a 12 year old must survive when he/she hears this?! Evolution is fear. God is hope. BIG difference!
You might have a point if that is what evolution actually says. As it is, evolution makes no testament to the worth of humanity at all. Your putting words in evolutions mouth so to speak. I really don't see why so many of you stubbornly persist in inserting completely imaginary value judgments into the theory of evolution. This fallacy has been pointed out ad nauseum on these forums, yet creationists still cling to it, beyond all reason. Yes, when you say "evolution says humans are no better than a monkey" or that "we should behave like monkeys because evolution says we are animals" you are making false statements. With the amount of times this fallacy gets pointed out here, its really quite irresponsible to continue to spread it.
The mere existence of theistic evolutionists like Gluadys, and Ken Miller (both Christians no less) make your argument totally invalid. The catholic church officially supports evolution, but makes a clear distinction that evolution is compatible with the idea that humanity is a special, unique part of creation. How can there be Christians out there who believe in the specialness of humanity and evolution?
You misunderstand evolution, insert all kinds of false doctrine into it, and proceed to get on a soapbox and rail against it. A perfect example of a straw man argument.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 6:38:29 PM
|
|
|
Method
Posts: 1162
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
According to Allah's Word we are both in trouble.
Have fun following Him!
I see you are as concerned about Allah's Word as I am God's Word.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 6:51:54 PM
|
|
|
evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
Status: offline
|
quote:
You might have a point if that is what evolution actually says. As it is, evolution makes no testament to the worth of humanity at all. Your putting words in evolutions mouth so to speak. I really don't see why so many of you stubbornly persist in inserting completely imaginary value judgments into the theory of evolution. This fallacy has been pointed out ad nauseum on these forums, yet creationists still cling to it, beyond all reason. Yes, when you say "evolution says humans are no better than a monkey" or that "we should behave like monkeys because evolution says we are animals" you are making false statements. With the amount of times this fallacy gets pointed out here, its really quite irresponsible to continue to spread it.
The mere existence of theistic evolutionists like Gluadys, and Ken Miller (both Christians no less) make your argument totally invalid. The catholic church officially supports evolution, but makes a clear distinction that evolution is compatible with the idea that humanity is a special, unique part of creation. How can there be Christians out there who believe in the specialness of humanity and evolution?
You misunderstand evolution, insert all kinds of false doctrine into it, and proceed to get on a soapbox and rail against it. A perfect example of a straw man argument.
First, when a state of the US passes a law allowing homosexual marriage, it indirectly attacks Christians and their belief. Although the law itself does not TECHNICALLY say ANYTHING about Christianity and/or their belief, it does attack Christians. Whether or not a law mentions a certain aspect does not limit it to only what it mentions. Evolution, under the guise of science, claims NO religious or moral implications, but that does not change the fact that when a 12 year-old (such as myself when I was that age) hears the teacher tell them he was an accident, that 12 year-old feels completely worthless and "anti-unique." I could care less what evolution CLAIMS it does/does not speak of. You can claim whatever you want and not change reality.
Second, when I was speaking of evolution, I was talking to you (you're not a Christian) and was therefor referring to YOUR style of evolution (Atheistic, naturalistic, humanistic). Yes, Gluadys can always insert the "God factor" into the conversation to make evolution more morally acceptable, but that is not a luxury you hold. Your evolutionism (which is the ONLY evolutionism allowed to be taught in our public schools - no theistic evolution is allowed) is the evolution that indirectly teaches kids how unimportant they are. Whether you like it or not, Creationists did not make this up. This is something many of them (such as myself) WITNESSED while in elementary and high school. There is much truth to what I have said, most of which comes from first hand experience (I taught classes where kids would come up to me and ask what the point to life is if we existed by accident. ONE WAS EVEN SUICIDAL because Atheistic evolutionism indirectly drilled into his brain the unimportance and pointlessness of life!!! This is a fact that happens all accross the world, so I'd quit denying it if I were you) and perhaps you should ponder on it a while, before simply dismissing it as dogmatic, unintelligent rants. That is selfish to those kids who suffer from the teachings of evolution. You are right in that the ToE does not DIRECTLY speak on these issues, but that DOES NOT exclude it from doing so. To deny this is sticking your head in the sand, my friend.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 6:59:22 PM
|
|
|
evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Method
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
According to Allah's Word we are both in trouble.
Have fun following Him!
I see you are as concerned about Allah's Word as I am God's Word.
No, I just which you luck on your journey. Accepting religion (however false that specific religion may be) is the first step to the saving knowledge of the Lord. Acknowledging a possibility of a God is wonderful. May the Holy Spirit convict and humble you.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 8:19:50 PM
|
|
|
essentialsaltes
Posts: 937
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
First, when a state of the US passes a law allowing homosexual marriage, it indirectly attacks Christians and their belief.
Does the legality of a ham sandwich indirectly attack Jews and Muslims and their beliefs?
If ham is unclean to you, don't eat it. No one's forcing you.
If alcohol is forbidden to you, don't drink it. No one's forcing you.
If driving a car on Saturday is forbidden, don't do it. No one's forcing you.
If marrying someone of the same sex is forbidden, don't do it. No one's forcing you.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 8:50:58 PM
|
|
|
evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
Status: offline
|
quote:
Does the legality of a ham sandwich indirectly attack Jews and Muslims and their beliefs?
There is a difference. Me eating a ham sandwich does not set a moral absolute by which all in my state much live by. Me eating my ham sandwich is my own preference, one which I do not impose on other. The law passed by the state IS a moral absolute required by all to accept. Atheistic evolutionism is a teaching that demands all to listen and accept. Evolution indirectly preaches faith, beliefs, and morals, and in turn directly affects the value one places on oneself and society, whether you like it or not. Deny it all you want, IT STILL HAPPENS. Prove it doesn't...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 9:34:32 PM
|
|
|
gluadys
Posts: 1000
Joined: 4/26/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
Does the legality of a ham sandwich indirectly attack Jews and Muslims and their beliefs?
There is a difference. Me eating a ham sandwich does not set a moral absolute by which all in my state much live by. Me eating my ham sandwich is my own preference, one which I do not impose on other. The law passed by the state IS a moral absolute required by all to accept. Atheistic evolutionism is a teaching that demands all to listen and accept. Evolution indirectly preaches faith, beliefs, and morals, and in turn directly affects the value one places on oneself and society, whether you like it or not. Deny it all you want, IT STILL HAPPENS. Prove it doesn't...
There is no public school curriculum at any level that prescribes teaching atheistic evolution. If I found any teacher, even a prof teaching a PhD program, who taught that evolution requires acceptance of atheism, I would work to have that instructor disciplined.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 9:44:11 PM
|
|
|
evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gluadys
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
Does the legality of a ham sandwich indirectly attack Jews and Muslims and their beliefs?
There is a difference. Me eating a ham sandwich does not set a moral absolute by which all in my state much live by. Me eating my ham sandwich is my own preference, one which I do not impose on other. The law passed by the state IS a moral absolute required by all to accept. Atheistic evolutionism is a teaching that demands all to listen and accept. Evolution indirectly preaches faith, beliefs, and morals, and in turn directly affects the value one places on oneself and society, whether you like it or not. Deny it all you want, IT STILL HAPPENS. Prove it doesn't...
There is no public school curriculum at any level that prescribes teaching atheistic evolution. If I found any teacher, even a prof teaching a PhD program, who taught that evolution requires acceptance of atheism, I would work to have that instructor disciplined.
You don't understand the point I am trying to make. No, my biology teacher never stated "God does not exist", but his teachings implied a non-existence of God, ESPECIALLY when the conversation turns to how the universe was created. I do understand these are two totally different topics, but they are mutually the same. Evolution implies a nonexistence of God UNLESS He is purposely inserted into the lecture, which, as we all know, is illegal for public school teachers to do. Evolution teaches Atheism unless it is explicitly taught otherwise, such as theistic evolution.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: More Proof Darwin Was Wrong - 8/1/2008 11:16:18 PM
|
|
|
wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
ORIGINAL: gluadys
quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
Does the legality of a ham sandwich indirectly attack Jews and Muslims and their beliefs?
There is a difference. Me eating a ham sandwich does not set a moral absolute by which all in my state much live by. Me eating my ham sandwich is my own preference, one which I do not impose on other. The law passed by the state IS a moral absolute required by all to accept. Atheistic evolutionism is a teaching that demands all to listen and accept. Evolution indirectly preaches faith, beliefs, and morals, and in turn directly affects the value one places on oneself and society, whether you like it or not. Deny it all you want, IT STILL HAPPENS. Prove it doesn't...
There is no public school curriculum at any level that prescribes teaching atheistic evolution. If I found any teacher, even a prof teaching a PhD program, who taught that evolution requires acceptance of atheism, I would work to have that instructor disciplined.
You don't understand the point I am trying to make. No, my biology teacher never stated "God does not exist", but his teachings implied a non-existence of God, ESPECIALLY when the conversation turns to how the universe was created. I do understand these are two totally different topics, but they are mutually the same. Evolution implies a nonexistence of God UNLESS He is purposely inserted into the lecture, which, as we all know, is illegal for public school teachers to do. Evolution teaches Atheism unless it is explicitly taught otherwise, such as theistic evolution.
If it so happens that teaching observed truth also "implies contradiction with YOUR bible" then that in no way means that teaching observed truth implies "atheism" specifically. There are plenty of religions that are fully compatible with evolution. Perhaps you should try one so you can stop embarrassing yourself and rejecting reality because it's mentally inconvenient for you.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
| | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
