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Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/26/2008 1:01:17 AM
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kisstheson
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Take a look at this picture:
http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/k/kramskoy3.jpg
Here are my thoughts about the russian artist's amazing painting. Perhaps you would like to add your own comments. Please do!
I am very moved by this depiction for several reasons. The picture impacts me mostly because of the portrayal of sadness and pain etched on His face. His lips are pulled down and tightly shut in silent suffering. He doesn't gaze directly at me. It's almost as though Jesus is guarded because I would not be able to bear the full extent of what He is feeling, a pain so deep that He grasps His hands tightly withstanding the pressure of loneliness weighing on His heart.
And this is a lonely scene, a wilderness. I can tell He's been there quite awhile. His garments look travel worn. His hair appears matted and in disarray. His face seems haggard. There are dark circles under His eyes.
I can see tears on His face.
What is this picture saying to me?
"Will you love Me here? Here in this lonely place? Will you love Me without all a display of My miraculous powers and Kingly riches? Will you love Jesus simply as Myself EVEN if I came bearing no gifts?"
I pray that I will. I pray through Your grace I will say "yes" with all my heart. I trust completely in You because apart from You I can do nothing.
This ties into the verse in the Song of Solomon 5: 2 Here's how it reads in the Message Bible:
"le Me in dear companion, dearest friend,
My dove, comsummate lover!
I'm soaked with the dampness of the night,
drenched with dew, shivering and cold."
Couple this verse with Revelations 3:20
"Behold I stand at the door and knock. If any man hears My voice and opens the door I will come into to him and sup with him..."
Now the Jesus pictured in SOS is pleading and pictured very much like Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane. He is shivering. His hair is covered with dew. Remember the Gospel tells us He sweat blood? The book of Psalms also says of the Messiah. "Those who hate Me without reason out number the hairs on My head." The head of our pleading Bridegroom is full of suffering. It is this Jesus who knocks at the door of the Bride. She is not used to seeing Him that way. She wants the Christ who gives her things, makes her life comfortable and easy...She is challenged to open to this Beloved and accept Him simply for Himself. Will she be willing to "know Him in His sufferings?" as Paul longed to know Christ? What is her reply? What is your reply? What is MY reply?
Is Jesus alone enough for me or do I love Him for His gifts? Will I follow the lamb wherever He goes?
What do you think?
< Message edited by kisstheson -- 1/26/2008 1:10:16 AM >
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/26/2008 1:31:07 AM
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1love1God1way
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What about this side of Jesus?
Hebrews 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
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-Ben-
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/26/2008 2:03:01 AM
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kisstheson
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That's not the side of Jesus this thread is about. I know that "side" exists as well but the Joy of the Lord is not the subject.
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/26/2008 3:34:27 AM
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1love1God1way
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I know.
My point is, though, that even through the picture that you painted, Christ was filled with joy. Joy in the pain, the shame, the suffering.
_____________________________
-Ben-
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/26/2008 3:42:51 AM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
I know.
My point is, though, that even through the picture that you painted, Christ was filled with joy. Joy in the pain, the shame, the suffering.
Oh...Yes! Absolutely! Incredibly we are part of the joy that was set before Him.
What a precious thought...joy in the pain, the shame and the suffering.
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/26/2008 2:48:41 PM
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kisstheson
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Seems like there's little interest in this topic.
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/26/2008 3:43:13 PM
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vidimide
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Amy,
To me it depicts reassurance that He really & totally understands when we feel alone, despondent, desolate, unaided, sad, etc because although Divine & Infinite, He's truly been there as a human.
Diane
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Oceans of Grace
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/26/2008 4:16:24 PM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: vidimide
Amy,
To me it depicts reassurance that He really & totally understands when we feel alone, despondent, desolate, unaided, sad, etc because although Divine & Infinite, He's truly been there as a human.
Diane
Great adjectives describing an awesome truth. Thanks!
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/26/2008 5:34:27 PM
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figmentPez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
Seems like there's little interest in this topic.
You might want to wait a little longer before deciding that. I haven't logged in for several days, and this thread hasn't even been up for 24 hours yet.
Not that I'm going to participate in it now, I don't want my viewpoint to be discarded simply because I'm not posting as quickly as you'd like.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/26/2008 6:20:17 PM
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lovetorun
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It makes me wonder what Jesus is going to look like when He comes back again not as lamb to the slaughter but as the Victor.
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/26/2008 11:21:24 PM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Walker311
I don't like it at all. The sadness depicted is not at all what I would speculate that His face would show. Even though I agree that Christ was not handsome, I believe that there was great attractiveness and intringue in His eyes even as He contemplated His impending death. I see a hollowness in the eyes in this picture which is uncharacteristic of how I believe He drew men to Himself. I don't believe that imagining the appearance of Christ for whatever reason is productive in our spiritual growth.
I do not believe that Jesus would want us to dwell on His outer shell.
Thanks for the reply. Actually the name of the picture is called "Christ in the wilderness."
Now for a question: If this is represntation of Christ in the wilderness do you think it misrepresents Him? He fasted for forty days and nights. He was out in the elements, the hot sun, the cold nights, wind and rain. He probably had lost weight. His hair was probably matted and dirty as well as His body. Are you still surprised to see His eyes looking hollow?
When I read the gospels I like to meditate on how He felt in each circumstance. He was a real Man who truly felt what we would feel if we were in the desert for forty days and nights without food.
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/26/2008 11:22:27 PM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
Seems like there's little interest in this topic.
You might want to wait a little longer before deciding that. I haven't logged in for several days, and this thread hasn't even been up for 24 hours yet.
Not that I'm going to participate in it now, I don't want my viewpoint to be discarded simply because I'm not posting as quickly as you'd like.
I'm looking forward to your comments.
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/27/2008 7:31:19 AM
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Bre39hldg
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This picture is just a man's opinion. As long as it doesn't add to the scriptures, I think we take it as His opinion.
As for the question is Jesus enough, I have a quote that I can't findright now --It was maybe from Max Lucadio that said "If Christ never gave you anything else but salvation that is enough and more than we deserve." (I probably butchered the quote) Brenda
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/27/2008 11:24:50 AM
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SonInMe1
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How can Jesus be disappointed in our actions when, as God He already knows what we are going to do and has His plan in place?
To me, painting a disappointed or surprised or downtrodden Jesus usurps His divinity and is heretical. You are denying Jesus' godhood.
These continual pictures may strike some emotional fibre wiuthin you, but they are not biblical nor do they express the true nature of our Lord and Savior.
Its also my opinion that these differences we are having is a lot more to do with gender and how each gender percieves our Lord....or are an emotion idol.
Jesus showed emotions when He was here in the flesh...anger....weeping....laughter and joy....pain...however He was not ruled by them or wallowed in them. Jesus was and is the confident male image, in strength and all about the Father, the perfect example of meekness. There is nothing SOFT about Jesus.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/27/2008 11:31:28 AM
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earthless
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Amen!!!! SonInMe1!!
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/27/2008 2:02:35 PM
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Walker311
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quote:
Is Jesus REALLY enough?
When I think I've had enough or that it is possibe to get enough, I'll let you know.
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/27/2008 6:25:40 PM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
How can Jesus be disappointed in our actions when, as God He already knows what we are going to do and has His plan in place?
To me, painting a disappointed or surprised or downtrodden Jesus usurps His divinity and is heretical. You are denying Jesus' godhood.
These continual pictures may strike some emotional fibre wiuthin you, but they are not biblical nor do they express the true nature of our Lord and Savior.
Its also my opinion that these differences we are having is a lot more to do with gender and how each gender percieves our Lord....or are an emotion idol.
Jesus showed emotions when He was here in the flesh...anger....weeping....laughter and joy....pain...however He was not ruled by them or wallowed in them. Jesus was and is the confident male image, in strength and all about the Father, the perfect example of meekness. There is nothing SOFT about Jesus.
He was a man of sorrows, aquaintd with grief. Because a man has emotions doesn't mean they are soft. He didn't wallow in them but He sweat blood in the Garden of Gethsemane. There's some pretty emotional stuff. Hebrews 4 "In the days of His flesh Jesus offered up LOUD cries and tears."
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/27/2008 6:26:58 PM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bre39hldg
This picture is just a man's opinion. As long as it doesn't add to the scriptures, I think we take it as His opinion.
As for the question is Jesus enough, I have a quote that I can't findright now --It was maybe from Max Lucadio that said "If Christ never gave you anything else but salvation that is enough and more than we deserve." (I probably butchered the quote) Brenda
Thanks! I like the quote from Max.
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/27/2008 7:08:30 PM
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Tekel
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The topic question, "Is Jesus REALLY enough?" reminded me of this...
Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
(Genesis 3:1)
The presentation of a portrait as a valid representation of Christ is offensive in any context.
God revealed himself to those who are alive this day through his Word. Not a painting, coloring book or statue. In fact, he seems to have major disrespect for attempts to depict him with physical objects.
You shall not make to yourselves any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them. For I Jehovah your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the sons to the third and fourth generation of those that hate me, (Exodus 20:4-5)
This is 1/5 of the OT 10 Commandments and 1/2 of the NT Greatest Commandment. Even if the line of physical idolatry is not crossed, it is certainly not a healthy direction or obsession. Our relationship to God is spiritual, not physical or sensory.
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter. Fear God, and keep His commandments. For this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/27/2008 8:31:00 PM
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jfaye
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A big AMEN, tekel, SonInMe1, Walker311 & earthless!
I will say that I find the determination to try and paint/draw an image, that we HAVE NO WAY OF envisioning
accurately, very futile! It is a fascination that seems distracting to me, as a very visual and creative person,
because it takes away from me the focus on who He is spiritually as I try to be productive in my worship of Him
in spirit and truth ,as He says we must.
It is enough, to know who and what He is through His word, alone, as it is
the only image which He has painted, and which we can rely on to be:
a true and accurate representation and assessment of who He is!
That is the definition of *glory* as in glorifying God. This is not about fantasizing
about His appearance--He was SO much more than an image or appearance!
However--kisstheson--to answer your question, which was the initial reason for your thread, 
how do we know if it would be enough? We only know Him as He has revealed Himself in the
Word and have experienced in being faithful to all He has promised. We will REALLY know Him,
in His heaven when we will see Him as He sees us, entirely knowable, entirely all that He is that
we cannot possibly comprehend with our finite minds.
Another however, though--is the fact that His gift of my salvation is enough of Him, if it were all of Him
I could have! But, I am so glad that it isn't all He has offered us! He offers us His shepherding and His
intercession for our prayers. He offers His role as the one who rejects the accusations (which are true
and many) by the accuser having declared us righteous, holy and acceptable in His kingdom!
I can't wait to see what is we are REALLY missing by only knowing Him on this plane! 
_____________________________
Thankfully His,
Janice
"We cannot appreciate God's mercy until we realize He is first the God of justice!"
"O taste and see that the LORD is good;
How blessed is the one who takes refuge in Him!"
Psalm 34:8
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/27/2008 9:17:56 PM
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kisstheson
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Janis said:
quote:
However--kisstheson--to answer your question, which was the initial reason for your thread,
how do we know if it would be enough? We only know Him as He has revealed Himself in the
Word and have experienced in being faithful to all He has promised. We will REALLY know Him,
in His heaven when we will see Him as He sees us, entirely knowable, entirely all that He is that
we cannot possibly comprehend with our finite minds.
Another however, though--is the fact that His gift of my salvation is enough of Him, if it were all of Him
I could have! But, I am so glad that it isn't all He has offered us! He offers us His shepherding and His
intercession for our prayers. He offers His role as the one who rejects the accusations (which are true
and many) by the accuser having declared us righteous, holy and acceptable in His kingdom!
I can't wait to see what is we are REALLY missing by only knowing Him on this plane!
Thanks! I appreciate your thoughts. Very good!
My point here is to say what if Jesue does not heal us? What if He doesn't pour down riches form the sky or make a painful situation better? I know christians that have tithed faithfuly, helped others and when hardship and difficulties come around they are angry with God and accusing Him of lying because God didn't open the windows of Heaven and poor out a blessing. It seems as though Jesus is not enough for these people.
This is why I asked, "Is Jesus realy enough?"
Which calls to mind the worship song that says, "Take the world but give me Jesus."
I hope and pray that he will always be enough for me.
Regarding the painting. I only posted it to illustrate the sadness of Christ.
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Is Jesus REALLY enough? - 1/27/2008 9:20:10 PM
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kisstheson
Posts: 857
Joined: 5/1/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tekel
The topic question, "Is Jesus REALLY enough?" reminded me of this...
Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
(Genesis 3:1)
The presentation of a portrait as a valid representation of Christ is offensive in any context.
God revealed himself to those who are alive this day through his Word. Not a painting, coloring book or statue. In fact, he seems to have major disrespect for attempts to depict him with physical objects.
You shall not make to yourselves any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them. For I Jehovah your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the sons to the third and fourth generation of those that hate me, (Exodus 20:4-5)
This is 1/5 of the OT 10 Commandments and 1/2 of the NT Greatest Commandment. Even if the line of physical idolatry is not crossed, it is certainly not a healthy direction or obsession. Our relationship to God is spiritual, not physical or sensory.
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter. Fear God, and keep His commandments. For this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
The thread is really not a debate about images of Christ. That's another subject all together. But thanks for the reply.
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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