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I always thought Jesus went to hell... - 7/20/2008 1:02:55 AM
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slimon11
Posts: 176
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Rev 1:18 is the only scripture that comes to mind re: this subject. Do you guys have some more for me?
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
I see this is a subject of great debate in our church section. I wondering why it matters so much. The way I see it, either way, He died for us.
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RE: I always thought Jesus went to hell... - 7/20/2008 7:26:25 AM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
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quote:
ORIGINAL: slimon11
Rev 1:18 is the only scripture that comes to mind re: this subject. Do you guys have some more for me?
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
I see this is a subject of great debate in our church section. I wondering why it matters so much. The way I see it, either way, He died for us.
There are quite a few passages dealing with this subject, and some very interesting side issues.
First and foremost, is the idea that "hell" is translated from at least three different words in scripture, two from the Greek and one from the Hebrew. "Sheol" is the hebrew word for the grave. Hades is the Greek word for the grave. "Tartarus" is the Greek word for the hell into which God placed the fallen angels of Genesis six account.
There is quite an interplay between Gen 6 and the New Testament, as Genesis tells us "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." [Gen 6:1-7]
The events of Gen six are reflected in the fact that Jesus went and visited these "spirits in prison" while his body was in the tomb. "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." -Jude 1:6
"... God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Pet 2:4
It was only reasonable that those "imprisoned Spirits" know why they were chained in darkness. They could not be told at the time, for if Satan had known, he would not have crucified Jesus [I Cor 2:8], and the plan of salvation for men would have had to be remade.
< Message edited by theo_book -- 7/21/2008 8:44:34 AM >
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RE: I always thought Jesus went to hell... - 7/20/2008 9:21:52 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5231
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: slimon11
Rev 1:18 is the only scripture that comes to mind re: this subject. Do you guys have some more for me?
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
The assumption being that Christ had to go to hell to take the keys of death and hades away from Satan.
This is a false assumption, for there is no indication that Satan ever had the keys of death and hades.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: I always thought Jesus went to hell... - 7/20/2008 10:29:48 AM
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earthless
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We have had some very good threads regarding this topic/your question. HERE is one of them.
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RE: I always thought Jesus went to hell... - 7/21/2008 1:07:08 AM
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slimon11
Posts: 176
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Thanks for the answers, that cleared somethings up.
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RE: I always thought Jesus went to hell... - 7/21/2008 7:38:19 PM
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TheCatholicCrusader
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1 Peter 3:18-20:
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
Sheol, the place of the dead, is referred to in the OT as a prison. This is where Jesus "preached to the spirits" between the time of His death and resurrection
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RE: I always thought Jesus went to hell... - 7/27/2008 4:39:11 PM
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Shumby
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MY PRAYER IS THAT AFTER MEDITATING ON THE SCRIPTURES BELOW, ONE CAN EASILY SEE THAT, YES, JESUS DID GO TO HELL (HADES), THE BAD SIDE OF HADES, AT THAT, AND SUFFERED FOR OUR SINS. It was through Jesus’ resurrection that he conquered him who had the power over death, that is the devil (and that’s when He, Jesus, got the keys of death and hell (hades); else WHEN? He certainly didn’t already have them, since there was nothing evil about him or attached to him, until our sins were laid upon him.
ACTS 2:26-31 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my SOUL in hell [hades], neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his SOUL was not left in hell [hades], neither his flesh did see corruption.
ISAIAH 53:8-12 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to BRUISE HIM; he hath PUT HIM TO GRIEF: when thou shalt make his SOUL an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the TRAVAIL OF HIS SOUL, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he HATH POURED OUT HIS SOUL UNTO DEATH: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
LUKE 16:22-26 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was CARRIED BY THE ANGELS INTO ABRAHAM'S BOSOM; the rich man also died, and WAS BURIED;
23And in hell (HADES) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off [AND WHERE WAS ABRAHAM AT THIS TIME; HE WAS NOT IN HEAVEN, SINCE THE WAY HAD NOT BEEN OPENED UP, SINCE JESUS HAD NOT YET DIED], and Lazarus in his bosom [so this was the HADEAN world - the realm of departed spirits].
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you CANNOT; NEITHER CAN THEY PASS TO US, that would come from thence. [therefore, JESUS could not pass from one to the other, either; at least, not until after the third day, when he was resurrected and carried those in captivity in Abraham's bosom, with him to Paradise.]
OH YES, FURTHER COMMENT: the word Sheol in the O.T. does not mean “grave.” There is a different word that means “grave.” Sheol means realm of departed spirits, as does Hell/Hades in the N.T.
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RE: I always thought Jesus went to hell... - 7/27/2008 6:06:35 PM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
Joined: 4/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Shumby
MY PRAYER IS THAT AFTER MEDITATING ON THE SCRIPTURES BELOW, ONE CAN EASILY SEE THAT, YES, JESUS DID GO TO HELL (HADES), THE BAD SIDE OF HADES, AT THAT, AND SUFFERED FOR OUR SINS. It was through Jesus’ resurrection that he conquered him who had the power over death, that is the devil (and that’s when He, Jesus, got the keys of death and hell (hades); else WHEN? He certainly didn’t already have them, since there was nothing evil about him or attached to him, until our sins were laid upon him.
ACTS 2:26-31 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my SOUL in hell [hades], neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his SOUL was not left in hell [hades], neither his flesh did see corruption.
ISAIAH 53:8-12 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to BRUISE HIM; he hath PUT HIM TO GRIEF: when thou shalt make his SOUL an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the TRAVAIL OF HIS SOUL, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he HATH POURED OUT HIS SOUL UNTO DEATH: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
LUKE 16:22-26 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was CARRIED BY THE ANGELS INTO ABRAHAM'S BOSOM; the rich man also died, and WAS BURIED;
23And in hell (HADES) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off [AND WHERE WAS ABRAHAM AT THIS TIME; HE WAS NOT IN HEAVEN, SINCE THE WAY HAD NOT BEEN OPENED UP, SINCE JESUS HAD NOT YET DIED], and Lazarus in his bosom [so this was the HADEAN world - the realm of departed spirits].
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you CANNOT; NEITHER CAN THEY PASS TO US, that would come from thence. [therefore, JESUS could not pass from one to the other, either; at least, not until after the third day, when he was resurrected and carried those in captivity in Abraham's bosom, with him to Paradise.]
OH YES, FURTHER COMMENT: the word Sheol in the O.T. does not mean “grave.” There is a different word that means “grave.” Sheol means realm of departed spirits, as does Hell/Hades in the N.T.
There are several Hebrew words that are translated grave, and hell.
Strong's #6900 qebuwrah {keb-oo-raw'}
Meaning: 1) grave, burial, burial site 1a) grave 1b) burial
Origin: pass part of 06912; TWOT - 1984b; n f
Usage: AV - sepulchre 5, grave 4, burial 4, burying place 1; 14
Found in:
Gen 35:20 And Jacob set a pillar upon her grave: that is the pillar of Rachel's grave unto this day.
Gen 44:31 It shall come to pass, when he seeth that the lad is not with us, that he will die: and thy servants shall bring down the gray hairs of thy servant our father with sorrow to the grave.
Then there is Stron'g #6913 qeber {keh'-ber} or (fem.) qibrah {kib-raw'}
Meaning: 1) grave, sepulchre, tomb
Origin: from 06912; TWOT - 1984a; n m
Usage: AV - grave 35, sepulchre 25, buryingplace 6; 67
Found in:
Gen 50:5 My father made me swear, saying, Lo, I die: in my grave which I have digged for me in the land of Canaan, there shalt thou bury me. Now therefore let me go up, I pray thee, and bury my father, and I will come again.
Num 19:16 And whosoever toucheth one that is slain with a sword in the open fields, or a dead body, or a bone of a man, or a grave, shall be unclean seven days.
Num 19:18 And a clean person shall take hyssop, and dip it in the water, and sprinkle it upon the tent, and upon all the vessels, and upon the persons that were there, and upon him that touched a bone, or one slain, or one dead, or a grave:
2 Sam 3:32 And they buried Abner in Hebron: and the king lifted up his voice, and wept at the grave of Abner; and all the people wept.
And there is Strong's #7585 she'owl
Meaning: 1) sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit 1a) the underworld 1b) Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead 1b1) place of no return 1b2) without praise of God 1b3) wicked sent there for punishment 1b4) righteous not abandoned to it 1b5) of the place of exile (fig) 1b6) of extreme degradation in sin
Origin: from 07592; TWOT - 2303c; n f
Usage: AV - grave 31, hell 31, pit 3; 65
As found in:
Gen 37:35 And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down into the grave unto my son mourning. Thus his father wept for him.
Gen 42:38 And he said, My son shall not go down with you; for his brother is dead, and he is left alone: if mischief befall him by the way in the which ye go, then shall ye bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to the grave.
Gen 44:29 And if ye take this also from me, and mischief befall him, ye shall bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to the grave.
Gen 44:31 It shall come to pass, when he seeth that the lad is not with us, that he will die: and thy servants shall bring down the gray hairs of thy servant our father with sorrow to the grave.
1 Sam 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
(quoted in Acts 2)
Psa 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psalm 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
This is not an exhaustive list by any means, nor are these the only words translated "hell" or "grave."
Jesus did not go down into hell to attain the keys of hell, for he had said to Peter "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." [Mat 16:18]
The "keys of hell [hades]" is referenced only in Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
This is not the tartarus of punishment, but is the grave. When Jesus was raised fropm the dead, the gates of hell were defeated; it was demonstrated that they could not keep the dead in the grave.
And it was in the resurrection that God gave unto Jesus "ALL power, including that of the grave."
When he was in the grave for three days, he went and visited the spirits that were in "prison" as told in I Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
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RE: I always thought Jesus went to hell... - 7/28/2008 2:24:06 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5231
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheCatholicCrusader
1 Peter 3:18-20:
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
Sheol, the place of the dead, is referred to in the OT as a prison. This is where Jesus "preached to the spirits" between the time of His death and resurrection
Do you consider Shoel to be Hell as the place created for Satan and satan's angels?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: I always thought Jesus went to hell... - 7/30/2008 12:35:15 AM
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fallenstar
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Wow! That's AWSOME!
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RE: I always thought Jesus went to hell... - 8/7/2008 1:34:41 AM
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Okami
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The reference to it being "Hell" was taken from the Apostle's Creed.
"Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead."
People just accepted it over time.
Biblically, He went to Sheol or Hades. Hell doesn't exist until the end.
The creed should have said "Sheol" or "Hades" instead.
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RE: I always thought Jesus went to hell... - 8/7/2008 4:30:19 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 1057
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From: Kansas City, MO
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quote:
I always thought Jesus went to hell... - 7/20/2008 12:02:55 AM The Apostles' Creed would agree with you........
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