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I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/3/2008 1:35:18 AM
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Carleejoan
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From: Canada
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Just after Canada Day where Canadians are celebrating their birthday the Gov't announces that a long known abortionist is to be admitted to the "order of Canada," a prestigious award given to conscientious people contributing in a positive way to our society. So guess who is getting it? Morgentaler, a man who's been in and out of jail for running illegal abortion clinics. This made me so sick. I don't know how this got by our "Christian" prime minister but it gags me in a big way.
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/3/2008 3:53:45 AM
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DreadPirateRandy
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On the bright side, you still have Captain Kirk.
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/3/2008 4:04:21 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 1161
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We have the same kind of thing happening here... George Tiller runs a clinic in Wichita, KS that has historically included illegal partial-birth abortions and a laundry list of health code violations. However, the DA can't seem to get the man put in the prison he has earned because the Governor of the state as well as the local judges are all in his back pocket... something to do with the rather hefty contributions to their campaigns made by Tiller. This is why we pray for the ending of abortion.
Adam
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/3/2008 7:55:30 AM
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lexie
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From: Toronto
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quote:
I don't know how this got by our "Christian" prime minister but it gags me in a big way.
Our "Christian" Prime Minister has publicly stated that we won't even allow debate on abortion in Parliament. No one is allowed to bring it up, so obviously he doesn't want to make any changes in this country. Same goes with the gay marriage - he made election promises to change the ruling, and after he was elected decided not to touch it.
So, as long as we keep voting in Conservative governments who would rather keep their popularity with the Liberal population of the country than make actual change in this country, we have to expect that things like this will happen.
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/4/2008 4:25:22 AM
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fiat_lux
Posts: 305
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From: Ottawa
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quote:
So, as long as we keep voting in Conservative governments who would rather keep their popularity with the Liberal population of the country than make actual change in this country, we have to expect that things like this will happen.
I'm not entirely sure what the present Canadian public opinion is on this issue. If you're right in what you've said here, then it sounds like we have a functioning (if immoral) democracy.
On the other hand, the last time I saw polls a couple years ago, I think the majority of Canadians were in favour of putting at least some limits on abortions.
As for the Order of Canada, well, we've given that to a pretty mixed bag of people in the past. Everything from activists who turned out to be anti-Semites, to the people who smuggled escaping American diplomats out of revolutionary Iran.
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/4/2008 7:32:37 AM
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lexie
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fiat_lux...I do agree with you. I don't know what the public opinion is. But, look at the gay marriage issue. What did Harper promise? He would open it up to the public. Then he takes office and says it will be put to the government. Then nothing happened and gay marriage is still legal. And with no debate allowed on abortion then what else could they be doing but trying to keep their popularity. So in then end, it seems to me that this Conservative government will not bring about any change, and we may as well still have the Liberals running the country.
I'm just so frustrated - at least open up debate on the issue. Either that, or Harper needs to stop advertising that he's a Christian because he's making us look bad.
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/4/2008 10:06:47 AM
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timf
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I'm just so frustrated -
Frustration is usually a result of a conflict between expectation and reality. We should ask ourselves what leads us to expect anything good from the world.
James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/4/2008 11:51:58 AM
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Carleejoan
Posts: 1001
Joined: 9/1/2007
From: Canada
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Yes well said timf. To expect anything "good" from the world is a tall order indeed.
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/4/2008 1:53:24 PM
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fiat_lux
Posts: 305
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From: Ottawa
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quote:
I'm just so frustrated - at least open up debate on the issue. Either that, or Harper needs to stop advertising that he's a Christian because he's making us look bad.
I have less of a problem with Harper calling himself a Christian - that's something I really can't declare that he isn't, it's not my place - but I agree that his record has been pretty inconsistent. He suggested there would be debate on both issues, and there really wasn't, with the exception of a bit of a charade on gay marriage a couple years ago.
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/4/2008 1:58:44 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2475
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
So, as long as we keep voting in Conservative governments who would rather keep their popularity with the Liberal population of the country than make actual change in this country, we have to expect that things like this will happen.
We have the same problem in the USA. We have RINOs who care more about their popularity that fostering a conservative worldview, We had a Republican majority in both the House and Senate and continued to spend like liberals.
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The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/4/2008 5:09:03 PM
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9drtr
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Yeah, but you also have actual conservatives who can get elected. The voters of this country have been so brainwashed to think of the socialist "Liberal Party" as moderates that actual moderates are often considered fascists.
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Edwin
When we know who is coming, how can we worry about what is coming? When the last hour belongs to us, how can we worry about the next minute?
Ross Crighton
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/4/2008 5:20:06 PM
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9drtr
Posts: 1582
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quote:
ORIGINAL: timf
I'm just so frustrated -
Frustration is usually a result of a conflict between expectation and reality. We should ask ourselves what leads us to expect anything good from the world.
James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
1 Sam 8:10-18(NIV)
Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king. He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the Lord will not answer you in that day."
I've been watching governments all over the earth, and I've never seen evidence that God was wrong.
_____________________________
Edwin
When we know who is coming, how can we worry about what is coming? When the last hour belongs to us, how can we worry about the next minute?
Ross Crighton
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/4/2008 11:06:38 PM
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fiat_lux
Posts: 305
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From: Ottawa
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Having done some more reading, I think it's worth pointing out that it's not the Conservative government that made this decision, it's an independent advisory committee reporting to the Governor-General. And it would be highly irregular for the Governor-General to actually veto something. The position is ceremonial.
quote:
Yeah, but you also have actual conservatives who can get elected. The voters of this country have been so brainwashed to think of the socialist "Liberal Party" as moderates that actual moderates are often considered fascists.
Right. It was the "socialist" Liberals who cut taxes, slashed government spending, and balanced our budget in the '90s. And it was the "moderate" Conservatives who brought in the GST in the '80s. I'm not buying it. 
quote:
I've been watching governments all over the earth, and I've never seen evidence that God was wrong.
I agree. Righteous government is neither required nor expected for us to fulfill our calling in Christ.
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/6/2008 3:20:16 PM
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9drtr
Posts: 1582
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From: Toronto the Good
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It wasn't the Liberals who cut taxes, it was Jean Chretien, a man who would slap his own mother to win an election. He was Canada's Bill Clinton (although fractionally less honest) and an anomaly.
What's wrong with replacing one tax with another?
_____________________________
Edwin
When we know who is coming, how can we worry about what is coming? When the last hour belongs to us, how can we worry about the next minute?
Ross Crighton
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/9/2008 1:48:31 PM
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davemiller7
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Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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Here in the USA, we do have a few real conservatives run for office, but when they do, here come investigations into his/her past, media smear campaigns, etc. Here also, the Democrat party has moved so far to the left that it should rightly be called the Socialist party. President John F. Kennedy, whom the Democrats love to mention, would not be very popular in his own party today. His ideas would be far too conservative for them. The Republicans have moved leftward into what used to be Democrat territory (big government, entitlement programs, etc.) Our whole country is drifting into socialism, just so you know that it's not only Canada.
Good luck up there in the Great White North! 
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: 9drtr
Yeah, but you also have actual conservatives who can get elected. The voters of this country have been so brainwashed to think of the socialist "Liberal Party" as moderates that actual moderates are often considered fascists.
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The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/10/2008 10:16:32 AM
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lexie
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Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
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Here is the link to contact the Governor General to voice your concerns.
quote:
I have less of a problem with Harper calling himself a Christian - that's something I really can't declare that he isn't, it's not my place - but I agree that his record has been pretty inconsistent.
My stepfather and I have been discussing this. Obviously it would be difficult for any Christian to be Prime Minister. You either compromise your beliefs on issues such as gay marriage and abortion, or you risk losing support from a lot of people. I'm sure Harper is a Christian - when he entered office there was a lot written in the media about his faith and his church, and I agree that it's not my place either to tell if he is or not. However, he has been very inconsistent on issues that are of extreme importance to Christians, and to me it's unfortunate.
Our beliefs are under fire from all areas of our country - look at Stephen Boisson in front of the Alberta Human Rights Commission, or the Canadian Islamic Congress bringing up Macleans in front of the Commission. Yet, imagine the backlash that would happen if a Christian tried to do the same thing, then we are judged as ignorant (there is a better word I'm looking for that isn't coming to me!)
quote:
Having done some more reading, I think it's worth pointing out that it's not the Conservative government that made this decision, it's an independent advisory committee reporting to the Governor-General. And it would be highly irregular for the Governor-General to actually veto something. The position is ceremonial.
You're right, it wasn't the government, but an advisory committee, and even the committee didn't come to a full agreement, there were quite a few who disagreed with this. But it's another thing to add to the list of how embarrassing it can be to be a Christian in Canada.
One thing I have learned from living in an environment that is predominantly not-Christian and one other major religion is that many judge all Christians based on the actions of those who are not their religion. So in other words, they look at the government, assume those people are all Christians, and that because they have allowed gay marriage, all Christians must support it. (Not generalizing an entire religion, but I often find myself fighting many stereotypes and explaining to people why they can't judge our faith on people who aren't in the church.)
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Are you ready should our Saviour call today?
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/10/2008 11:49:28 PM
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doublecross
Posts: 121
Joined: 6/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carleejoan
Just after Canada Day where Canadians are celebrating their birthday the Gov't announces that a long known abortionist is to be admitted to the "order of Canada," a prestigious award given to conscientious people contributing in a positive way to our society. So guess who is getting it? Morgentaler, a man who's been in and out of jail for running illegal abortion clinics. This made me so sick. I don't know how this got by our "Christian" prime minister but it gags me in a big way.
That means you have not bought into it yet. Stay away from being jaded. Your frustration is a sign of your desire for your own holiness.
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RE: I'm so disgusted with my country - 7/11/2008 5:43:19 AM
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fiat_lux
Posts: 305
Joined: 5/21/2005
From: Ottawa
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quote:
My stepfather and I have been discussing this. Obviously it would be difficult for any Christian to be Prime Minister. You either compromise your beliefs on issues such as gay marriage and abortion, or you risk losing support from a lot of people. I'm sure Harper is a Christian - when he entered office there was a lot written in the media about his faith and his church, and I agree that it's not my place either to tell if he is or not. However, he has been very inconsistent on issues that are of extreme importance to Christians, and to me it's unfortunate.
I sort of agree, but really, politics is about compromise. Harper has a lot of constituencies to worry about and, like most people in his position, he's more concerned about placating them than much else. There is in my mind an inherent contradiction between political life - based on compromise and slick maneuvering - and my faith, which does not compromise on moral issues. Ultimately, I've lost my trust in the state as a potential force for good, except in certain very restricted areas of activity. I'd rather put my time into changing people's hearts and their minds towards Christ and towards what I believe is a Christian moral perspective. I've come to the conclusion that Christ saves people, not countries, and in any event that more can probably be accomplished through educating people and through personal relationships than through political campaigns on issues like that. It might be nice to sweep abortion away with a law, but the last twenty years of Canadian political activity indicates to me that that is not possible. In the meantime what I can do is tell others what I believe about it, and hopefully that will have an impact on people, even without a law. People don't need laws to tell them what is morally good.
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