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DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 3:57:11 PM
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Fortydays
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I know he claimed to be the Messiah or son of God. BUT did he ever say he was GOD. When I pray, I do pray to Jesus or God. BUt I really was wondering if I am doing this right. Did Jesus say he was God. Someone told me on my fishing website that Jesus never said he was God.
This is what has me wondering:
This is what was posted to me while I was trying to defend. I was at a lose for words! Help please....
"The plain fact is that there is not a single verse in the entire New Testament that makes the claim that Jesus is God. If such verses did indeed exist, then Christianity wouldn’t be splintered into so many hundreds, if not thousands, of sects, and the councils of Nicea and Constantinople would not have taken place to determine Jesus’ divinity."
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. (KJV)
Jesus clearly states that he is less than God. That which is less than God cannot be the same as God.
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. (KJV)
Would God grow in wisdom and stature? Would God grow in His own favor?
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 4:06:59 PM
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Kat_D
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30 "I and My Father are one." -John 10
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"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 4:18:46 PM
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small_creation
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Jesus said that he and God were one. This can have many interpretations. Mine is an analogy. Jesus and God are one like my husband and I are one. We are two of a kind that, joined together, create a relationship all unto our own. Pretty nebulous explanation, I know, but it fits the comparison, I believe.
Not putting myself or my hubby on the same plane as God and Jesus, mind you -- simply drawing a relational comparison that I can myself grasp.
I can say that there's no one else on the face of this earth so completely like me than my husband -- and we are very different people! There is a unique level of trust and committment there that I share with no one else.
And I say this to all my friends who share with me a secret -- when you share it with me, I may very well share it with my husband, as we are one.
j
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 4:22:34 PM
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earthless
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When Jesus came to Caesarea Philippi, He asked his disciples the mother of all questions, "Who do you say that I am?" (Matthew 16:15, Mark 8:29, Luke 9:20).
Mormons answer this question by saying that Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer; Jehovah Witnesses answer by saying that Jesus is the archangel Michael; New Agers say Jesus is an avatar or enlightened messenger.
Jesus, however, answered by claiming that He was God.
First, Jesus claimed to be the unique Son of God. As a result, the Jewish leaders tried to kill Him because in "calling God His own Father, Jesus was making Himself equal with God" (John 5:18).
In John 8:58 Jesus went so far as to use the very words by which God revealed Himself to Moses from the burning bush (Exodus 3:14). To the Jews this was the epitome of blasphemy for they knew that in doing so Jesus was clearly claiming to be God.
On yet another occasion, Jesus explicitly told the Jews: "I and the Father are one.' Again the Jews picked up stones to stone Him, but Jesus said to them "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me? We are not stoning you for any of these, ' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God (John 10:30-33).
Furthermore, Jesus made an unmistakable claim to deity before the Chief Priests and the whole Sanhedrin. Caiaphas the High Priest asked him: "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One? 'I am,' said Jesus. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven" (Mark 14:61-62).
A biblically illiterate person might well have missed the import of Jesus' words.
Caiaphas and the Council, however, did not. They knew that in saying he was "the Son of Man" who would come "on the clouds of heaven" he was making a overt reference to the Son of Man in Daniel's prophecy (Daniel 7:13-14).
And in doing so, He was not only claiming to be the preexistent Sovereign of the Universe but prophesying that He would vindicate His claim by judging the very court that was now condemning Him.
Moreover, by combining Daniel's prophecy with David's proclamation in Psalm 110, Jesus was claiming that He would sit upon the throne of Israel's God and share God's very glory.
To students of the Old Testament this was the height of "blasphemy," thus "they all condemned Him as worthy of death" (Mark 14:64).
Finally, Jesus claimed to possess the very attributes of God.
For example, He claimed omniscience by telling Peter, "this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times" (Matthew 26:34); declared omnipotence by not only resurrecting Lazarus (John 11:43) but by raising Himself from the dead (see John 2:1(); and professed omnipresence by promising He would be with his disciples "to the very end of the age" (Matthew 28:20).
Not only so, but Jesus said to the paralytic in Luke 5:20, "Friend, your sins are forgiven." In doing so, he claimed a prerogative reserved for God alone. In addition, when Thomas worshiped Jesus saying, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:20), Jesus responded with commendation rather than condemnation.
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 4:40:50 PM
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LCannon
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"Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” 14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” (Exodus 3:13,14)
"But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 31 And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, 32 ‘I AM the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”(Matt. 22:29-32)
The Jews were very sensitive to Jesus' claiming he was the 'I AM' of the the OT. There was no misunderstanding and His miracles and changed lives bore witness to that fact.
[Jesus] proved He had a valid claim [to His Deity] but His own rejected His claim yet as many as receives His message; to them he claimed the right to become redeemed of God and appropriate His Name.“ John 1:11,12
< Message edited by LCannon -- 7/31/2008 4:58:27 PM >
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"I will behold Thy face for I shall be satisfied when I awake to Thy likeness."
(Psalm 17:15)
"To see God and to be like Him; what more can I desire? I believe it and I expect it."
(CH Spurgeon)
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 4:49:51 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
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This first verse is from Exodus 3 and it is God talking to Moses
14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
and this from John 8 is Jesus speaking
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
So if God is I AM, and Jesus is saying He is I AM, then Jesus is saying He is God. Do you agree? (by the way, both verses are from the NKJV)
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Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 4:53:30 PM
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Mosesman
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I was taught that Jesus and God are one because Jesus is the human incarnation of God.
quote:
30 "I and My Father are one." -John 10
John 14:11 "Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves."
The Tri-une (three and one):
God: "I AM that I AM"
Jesus: God's human incarnation
The Holy Spirit: The Spirit from God (changed from of God)
< Message edited by Mosesman -- 7/31/2008 11:57:29 PM >
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"You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.
~Galatians 5:13~
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 6:00:50 PM
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Jhud
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Luke 20:27-29
Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing."
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God !"
Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed ? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."
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Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 6:30:46 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one
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Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 6:45:06 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
This is the best answer.
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 6:58:11 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mosesman
God: "I AM that I AM"
Jesus: God's human incarnation
The Holy Spirit: The Spirit of God
Um, that's modalism.
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 7:06:08 PM
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Mosesman
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Is it wrong? You said your self thet Jesus claimed he was God. It is just a different way of saying It. And, we don't know everything. We just know what Jesus told us.
I was just saying what I believe. If i offended you in any way, I am sorry. You just stated tons of facts (a lot of which supported what I said) and never said what you believed. What do you beleive, then?
< Message edited by Mosesman -- 7/31/2008 7:19:15 PM >
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"You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.
~Galatians 5:13~
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 9:15:10 PM
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delete123
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Genesis1: In the beginning God created all the Heavens and the earth
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word is God.
Genesis: I AM that I AM
Gospel of John: I Am the Way, I Am the Light, I Am the Truth, I AM the Good Shepard, I AM the Vine, I AM....etc...
Genesis during man creation: Let's make man in *our image
CRH
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 7/31/2008 10:19:32 PM
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Butterflytearz
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Hi Forty Days
I believe the following scriptures report that Jesus did say in so many words that He was God.
JESUS IS GOD
John 14
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then , Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 12:01:32 AM
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Mosesman
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Opps, I'm sorry, I beleive I worded something wrong in one of my previos posts (#7). I will edit it now.
Now, all I am saying is that Jesus and God are one. I didn't mean to imply the the Holy Spirit is God (on that subject, i honestly don't know.)
_____________________________
"You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.
~Galatians 5:13~
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 12:04:30 AM
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Mosesman
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quote:
ORIGANAL: earthless
This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God.
I absolutly agree.
_____________________________
"You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.
~Galatians 5:13~
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 1:00:14 AM
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Fortydays
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I want to thank EVERYONE for clearing this up. ALL your time and effort is appresiated. I think many people will read your replies and learn and grow.
THAnK you again....all of you!
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 8:12:32 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mosesman
I didn't mean to imply the the Holy Spirit is God (on that subject, i honestly don't know.)
The Holy Spirit IS God.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 8:23:59 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: biblelovindude
The trinity is not in any of the Greek or Aramaic texts before the Nicene creed which was head up by Emporer Constantine, an unbeliever. He forced them to adapt the trinity into the bible and the verses were added. People who didn't vote for the trinity got excommunicated or killed. The trinity is not Biblical whatsoever.
The teaching is codified in Scripture.
quote:
ORIGINAL: biblelovindude
Jesus Christ ain't God.
According to the entire context of Scripture - Jesus is God, Lord of Lords, Alpha and Omega, King of Kings.
quote:
ORIGINAL: biblelovindude
If he was you might as well just throw your bibles away because they are trash.
And then switch to your Bible?
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 8:27:01 AM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: biblelovindude
The trinity is not in any of the Greek or Aramaic texts before the Nicene creed which was head up by Emporer Constantine, an unbeliever. He forced them to adapt the trinity into the bible and the verses were added. People who didn't vote for the trinity got excommunicated or killed. The trinity is not Biblical whatsoever.
Jesus Christ ain't God. If he was you might as well just throw your bibles away because they are trash.
So that many verses were added to make this "lie" appear real?
You do realize how silly that sounds, right?
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 10:04:53 AM
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earthless
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So your board name is a play on words? As a former atheist, your comments are funny because they remind me of when I was utterly ignorant to the context of the Bible.
Your entire argument crumbles when you realize the foundation of the anthropos. Every single thing you copied and pasted on here has been more than fully addressed for centuries on end. I recommend you do a bit more research before adhering to what you proclaim.
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 10:25:53 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: biblelovindude
...And there couldn't be such a contradiction in the Bible to have some that state he is God and some that state he isn't God. If that contradiction exists then...
Then I'd suggest that you are a novice with the scripture and simply have not matured to the point of understanding. There is no shame in being ignorant because we've all been there. What is a shame is to make wild accusations before you've matured enough to understand the basics because of the ones that might think you're right and accept the error. It shows far the heart of a growing disciple of Jesus to say, "I don't understand that," than to assert something is irrational (to you) and is, therefore, wrong.
I submit that the whole of the Gospel and the grace of God seems irrational to the natural mind. Only a mind open to the teaching of the Holy Spirit and mature believers can grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ, God the Son, through whom the world was created and sustained (per one of those verses that you think contradicts others).
When there seems to be contradictions within scripture, the problem is with out understanding, not the Bible.
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 10:42:29 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: biblelovindude
The trinity is not in any of the Greek or Aramaic texts before the Nicene creed which was head up by Emporer Constantine, an unbeliever. He forced them to adapt the trinity into the bible and the verses were added. People who didn't vote for the trinity got excommunicated or killed. The trinity is not Biblical whatsoever.
Jesus Christ ain't God. If he was you might as well just throw your bibles away because they are trash.
Here's just one of many verses that show you have missed the truth about Jesus' identity:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
-Isaiah 9:6
Who besides Jesus was the child born, the son given? And that child and son is also declared in the same verse to be MIGHTY GOD, EVERLASTING FATHER. Contradiction or just something you don't understand yet but is obviously true?
Care to comment?
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RE: DID Jesus claim to be GOD. - 8/1/2008 4:09:50 PM
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delete123
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mosesman
Opps, I'm sorry, I beleive I worded something wrong in one of my previos posts (#7). I will edit it now.
Now, all I am saying is that Jesus and God are one. I didn't mean to imply the the Holy Spirit is God (on that subject, i honestly don't know.)
The Holy Spirit is God
It is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, 3 distinct Spirits, yet ONE
CRH
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