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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/24/2008 7:14:43 PM
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singingmom
Posts: 47
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: NC, USA
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Aw, I know how you feel.
I work from home as well.. sometimes FT, but most of the time, part time [30hrs/wk] Last month, I had a HUGE project and I put in 98 hours in a 2 week period... YIKES! I also have a 12yo, a boy, and we have homeschooled since day 1.
Is there a way that you can set time aside for you and your daughter? I mean, shut the phones and computers off ?? I keep my cell phone shut off, and I avoid my business email. I'm telling you, it is so tempting!!!! I figure, well, while he's quietly reading, I can get some things done, but it doesn't work that way. It always snowballs and we get off track. So... we homeschool from 8-2 or 3... We do all are academics before 12, and the early afternoon is open to fun social things. Then I make dinner, we eat around 4-5, and then I work until about 10ish at night. Hubby takes him to his evening things... Golf, karate, youth group.. etc.
I will say, it is almost an impossibility to work AND school at the same time. Maybe you can do it, but I cant. :o) Have you tried a DVD program? Is this your 1st year? [that is always the hardest]. Get yourself into a support group, MAKE TIME for fun and academics, and try to set your work hours in the evening and stick to it.
I don't have my business because I want to.. I'm not sure what your situation is... We have to becuase we own another business [fence] and it's at a dead crawl with this economy...  So, moms kickin' in with web development, music lessons, figure skating lessons, coupons, and anywhere else I can kick up a buck..!  I thank my dear Lord that He has provided a source so I can work and school our son.
Feel free to email or PM me... I'll help you where I can, and I'll be praying for you... Pray about it... You can do this if you just set your schedule right...
What was your reason for Homeschooling anyway?
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Melissa
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/24/2008 7:19:32 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
Posts: 715
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I haven't been homeschooling as long as most of the people here, but your post made me want to reply. It sounds like your daughter needs you. Why start making her independent at 12? I still think of 12 as relatively young. I understand the issue of not having time and having interruptions and what not. I really don't know what the answer is to that... Are you single? Does your husband work? If so, look into one income. That's really scary and really tough, but a lot of us here do it, and the sacrifice is made for the well-being of our children.
No socialization is better than the socialization she would get at the public school. I would rather my child be shy and friendless than to have the socialization that goes on there. It doesn't take a lot to get invovled with the wrong crowd, and it's easy to follow suit since they are on the wide path, not the narrow path that we'd prefer our children to be on.
I would love it if I were my daughter's best friend. She's 2 now, so I am her best friend. If 10 years from now, I'm still her best friend, I will be delighted. I don't think the socialization is the issue here at all. If I were you, I'd throw that issue out of the equation and just try to think about how you could avoid interruptions and getting off task.
I hope that I've helped some.
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Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/24/2008 7:42:51 PM
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sen10tious
Posts: 349
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Please take time to sort your priorities!
I guess that I am about the opposite of VisitorinWaiting—I think socialization is the big issue here, and that it is the homeschooling that is not the issue.
First question— What do you believe is the best way to develop quality friendships?
Are you anticipating that the answer is a public school?
Second question— What is wrong with wanting to "avoid negatives from school?"
At 12, your daughter is getting old enough to understand that if she wants to continue homeschooling she is going to have to assume more responsibility for staying on task. In my reading of your post, the only real academic complaint you put forth was lack of time. Your real issues seems to be concerns about your daughter's social development, not about homeschooling.
She is clingy; you are proposing sending her into a sink-or-swim situation. Even if she does not get involved with the "wrong crowd," she runs a risk of feeling even more isolated in a sea of people.
In a perfect world, it would be her father's responsibility to provide opportunity for appropriate companionship for his family. Her dad ought to be praying about this because fathers are given a special anointing to be priests and leaders for their family. What are his ideas?
Frankly, I do not see public school as being the best answer for social issues. Is there any way you can help her pursue friendships at church?
I don't see how quitting homeschooling will give her a good friend.
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/24/2008 8:07:48 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
Posts: 715
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sen10tious
I guess that I am about the opposite of VisitorinWaiting—I think socialization is the big issue here, and that it is the homeschooling that is not the issue.
From your post, we agree more than we disagree. For the poster, the mom, I think her MAJOR issue IS socialization. I don't think it should be a major issue though.
I agree that public school is not the best place to make friends. I also agree that mom and dad should be helping her to find more outlets to make friends...
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/24/2008 8:29:30 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4273
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I actually think socialization is the issue. By 12, she should have one or two good friends, whether through church or the neighborhood or wherever. Social skills are important and will become more so as she becomes a teenager. I also don't think mom should be the best friend--she should be the mom!
(I'm not prepared to say that not homeschooling is the answer, but I think we need more details about that.)
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/24/2008 8:53:09 PM
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his_chosen
Posts: 1056
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Okay, the socialization thing... I'm a home schooler, so I know it's bunk with my kids. Here's another example for you--
My dog is a therapy dog. We do reading programs at libraries. We have one little girl that has been coming to these programs for a couple years. We're talking twice a month over the summer, and maybe four or so during the school year. This girl is home schooled and her mom is concerned about the socialization thing. Trust me--it's not an issue!!! The girl relates well to everyone. Okay, at the library, that's one thing. She's in her element. But, earlier this month I saw this girl and her mother at the grocery store. The girl asked me how my dog was doing, if we were going to be at the next program, etc. The fact that this 7yo girl relates well to everyone, not just the cliques in school, speaks volumes!
As for your daughter--if she wants to continue home schooling, she's old enough to take responsibility. Give her a list of her assignments so she knows what needs to be done each day. YOu may not be able to work straight through. That's okay. As long as you are able to get things done by the end of the week.
Hang in there! Feel free to hang out here for support!
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You have a choice. You can throw in the towel or you can use it to wipe the sweat off your face.
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/24/2008 9:04:08 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3718
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quote:
ORIGINAL: his_chosen
Okay, the socialization thing... I'm a home schooler, so I know it's bunk with my kids. Here's another example for you-
Do you think there are ever cases where socialization is a legitimate issue with a HSer? (One that could improve in a different educational setting?)
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/24/2008 9:33:47 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
Posts: 715
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I also don't think mom should be the best friend--she should be the mom!
Not daughter being my best friend, but my daughter considered me to be her best friend...the one she could confide in, the one she trusts more than anyone else, etc, etc. I didn't make that clear, I know...but I know young ladies who do have a mom as their best friend, and mom is definitely mom...an authoritative one...and everything works out fine. I see that example and that is what I want for me and my daughter.
Someone asked, though I don't think directed at me or the whole board but to another specific person, if socialization is ever a legitimate issue for HSers... My answer...yes, but not anymore than with PSers. The socialization that they would get somewhere else would likely be bad social skills...where with HS, I can pick and choose the social setting, therefore making the POSSIBILITY of teaching GOOD social skills more LIKELY.
_____________________________
Hebrews 11:13,16 "...They said they were like visitors and strangers on earth...they were waiting for a better country, a heavenly country." (NCV)
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/24/2008 11:08:55 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4273
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quote:
ORIGINAL: his_chosen
Okay, the socialization thing... I'm a home schooler, so I know it's bunk with my kids. Here's another example for you--
I think socialization may be a problem in this case, but not necessarily related to homeschooling.
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/24/2008 11:14:54 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7986
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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quote:
ORIGINAL: allisonbrett
As a full time+ business owner and HS mom of a 12 yo dd, I'm thinking about throwing in the towel. I'm just not sure I'm doing the best for her by continuing. I'm often interrupted during the day and she has difficulty staying on task if I have to leave the room or answer the phones. There are days that we don't accomplish nearly as much as we really need to and I don't want her to miss out on a good education. I do believe I can do as well by her academically provided we can cover all we need to in a day.
As has been mentioned, your daughter is old enough to be taking on responsibility for her education. If she has trouble focusing, I suggest you specifically pray about that, discuss it with her and work on improving her focus.
One of the things I have done to help improve focus in my children is to set a timer. They have a set amount of time to complete a lesson, then we go onto the next one, done or not. If they did not complete the lesson, we add it to the end of the day and they work on it until it’s done. This was effective for us.
What I started last year that helped was to make up a schedule for my two older children. Last fall, one was ten (almost eleven), the other thirteen. I would give them their schedules on Monday morning and they were responsible for completing everything on the list. If they have a problem or a question, they can come to me with it. Some of the items, I do with them during certain times of the day. We schedule it in. This is how I keep track of three children going three directions. I imagine it would be similar to trying to run a business with one child being homeschooled.
Another thing I do is to have lessons that the children can do without a lot of supervision. I may give a spelling test at the beginning of the week to develop a spelling list, then they have to work on the words and I make up spelling puzzles. They have another test at the end of the week. This requires very little supervision on my part. We normally have one math lesson per week, then they work on the practice sheets four days and take a test on day four.
By age twelve, it is a very important skill to be able to pay attention, focus and be a self starter. If she is having trouble with this at home, she may have far more trouble in a classroom setting. By now she should know that she is not the only consideration, but that she has to be considerate of you and your work too. If she were in a classroom, she certainly would have to do that. There is no reason why she can’t learn that now, at home.
quote:
ORIGINAL: allisonbrett
I'm also concerned over socialization. She literally has no friends other than a very immature 9 yo across the street that she may see once or twice every week or two. Other girls nearer her age in our neighborhood tend to behave very inappropriately (very adult) so I don't encourage her to associate with them.
My very shy dd is won't pursue friendships, mainly acquaintances with the other girls from Sunday School or middle school activities at church. I don't have the freedom or time to volunteer in local co-ops (they require it) and can't always manage to get her to 4H meetings. Finances are a major issue now so extra-curricular activities are not possible.
If she is having trouble making friends now, there is no guarantee that she will do better in school. We all remember kids in school that didn’t seem to have any friends. Many shy children can learn social skills better apart from school. I really don’t think it has much to do with where a child is schooled. Some people just don’t have a lot of friends. And that is okay. Even in my own life, there have been times when I’ve been lonely and times I’ve had so many friends I didn’t have time to give them all the attention they wanted from me. Season of life and personality play a big role in friendships.
As far as socialization. I do not like the social structure in the school system and do not think it prepares kids for the real world they will face when they leave school. I personally think that many children are hindered by the social structure in the schools and that the socialization they receive there is often very counter productive and harmful. It’s one of the reasons we homeschool.
quote:
ORIGINAL: allisonbrett
Ideas, suggestions? Should I quit? She wants to continue but I wonder if its to avoid negatives from school and to continue hanging out with mom. She's very clingy. We do have a lot of fun together but she needs friends.
HELP!!!! 
I don’t think you should quit. I think you should make some adjustments. For example, I don’t know why you can’t always make the 4H meetings, but I’m wondering why you can’t put that on your schedule and make it a priority rather than letting other things take priority over it. It would be good to find something that your daughter is interested in and make that a priority as well.
Yes, your daughter probably needs some friends closer in age and maturity to her and you should work with her about the clinginess. Talk to her about it. Talk to her about your concerns that she work on finding friends. Ask her what things specifically are holding her back and what you can do to help her overcome those obstacles.
Btw, my fourteen year old daughter tells me I am her best friend. I am the one she comes to for advice and help. The one she looks to for helping her gain the knowledge, understanding and wisdom she needs. She still needs hugs, kisses and snuggles, but that’s healthy and good. She has many friends and interacts well with others in any age range. She doesn’t have trouble making and keeping friends. I believe a mother ought to be her daughter’s best friend. Of course, I adore her and like her, but she is not my best friend. I do not look to her for support or advice. But I do enjoy her very much. She knows who’s boss and is respectful of me. In fact that is a big reason why I am her best friend. She respects and trusts me. She knows I have her best interests at heart and would never do anything to purposefully cause her harm, but will put myself second to make sure she has all of her needs met and is healthy in body, soul and spirit. This is the best case scenario for raising a teenager.
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/25/2008 12:04:27 AM
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Jenny-Fair
Posts: 6284
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From: WA
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Socialization, if it's a problem, can be solved without changing the educational method.
In fact, in this case, I think putting the girl in PS when she is clearly not ready for that kind of 'socialization' (dog-eat-dog, etc.) would be a very bad idea. Instead I would work rather slowly (given her natural shyness, which is not actually a defect) toward better social skills, keeping in mind that while most people think kids should be able to get along with kids, getting along with adults is actually more important (after all, we are raising future adults!).
I have a very intelligent friend whose mother, in his senior year, made him learn how to make small talk. It didn't come naturally to him, though he's a loyal and good friend, and he just needed to learn that like we learn not to chew with our mouths open. 
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/25/2008 8:05:30 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4986
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
Other girls nearer her age in our neigborhood tend to behave very inappropriately (very adult) so I don't encourage her to associate with them.
I'm a little confused by this part. If you don't want her to be friends with these girls in the neighborhood, why would it be better in school? Most likely she'd be with those other girls and more like them every day if she went to school.
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/25/2008 4:56:35 PM
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cindybode
Posts: 1547
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Northwest PA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
Other girls nearer her age in our neigborhood tend to behave very inappropriately (very adult) so I don't encourage her to associate with them.
I'm a little confused by this part. If you don't want her to be friends with these girls in the neighborhood, why would it be better in school? Most likely she'd be with those other girls and more like them every day if she went to school.
This was my question as well.
It sounds like a lot of your problems could be solved by teaching your daughter to work more independently. As for the socialization aspect, is your daughter actually unhappy with the situation, or are you just thinking she needs more friends? If you are naturally outgoing and your daughter is not, what you may perceive as a deplorable lack of social interaction may in fact be perfectly ok with her. If she's happy with the way things are, what's the problem?
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If you lock in any creature, from rats to chickens to pigs to people, 10 to 30 or more in a box and force feed them you'll create little monsters. Confinement Education School Operations (CESOs) just don't compare to naturally pastured free-ranged kids.
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/25/2008 11:49:15 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1445
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As a person who had trouble making friends around that age myself, I'd say the absolute worst thing to do to a 12 year old girl who has problems making friends would be to throw her to the junior high public school piranhas. They love having fresh defenseless meat to tear apart. *sigh* If you think the girls her age behave inappropriately around you, wait until they get to school and hook up with the rest of their clique.
You might see if there are free clubs that she can get involved in in your area, that match her interests. Shy girls can really shine when they have a common topic to discuss with the rest of the group.
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/26/2008 12:00:39 AM
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crankius
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Are there any service type activities she can participate in? Serving is a great way to make friends, connect with people, build confidence, and gain skills.
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/26/2008 10:01:43 AM
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amybreit
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You've gotten some great ideas here!
One thought - if she would like to get to know some of the girls from church better, how about suggesting she invite one of them over after church or some afternoon.
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/26/2008 12:51:37 PM
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allisonbrett
Posts: 200
Joined: 5/29/2008
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Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I so appreciate everyone's input and prespective.
I didn't mean that I was expecting PS to be the answer to our problems. She was in PS for elementary but didn't want to continue in middle school. I agreed. I had hoped that if I needed to stop HSing that I'd be able to convince my mom to help out paying tuition to a local Christian school.
I know that we have some things to work out but for now we are staying the course. I did talk to her at length about her lack of staying on track and she's making some improvements which is a major plus! She still asks if she doesn't understand something. Before she just wanted an audience. She's had a daily schedule which helps but sometimes we aren't completing as much as she needs.
Sadly, I don't have an option about working full time. My husband and I own our own business and we are both here 40+ hours a week. Since it's just us two, I can't put off business stuff or I'm trying to encourage her to attend some of the middle school events and activities with the church kids. She's known most of these girls since she was very young so it's not like she's a stranger to them. I'm trying to get her interested in attending some of the fall activities with the youth at church. She's not thrilled that I'm "making" her go but I'know once she goes that she'll be fine. I hope she'll come out of her shell and develop some good friends. At her age, she need that.
Thank you all for your suggestions and advice. I'm trying to figure how to incorporate the ideas shared here.
Thanks again!
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/27/2008 1:03:19 AM
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Homegrownkids
Posts: 1164
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I was just wondering if you had any local christian homeschool groups in your area? Maybe you could have one of the mom's pick her up and bring her to homeschool events? It might be a way for her to meet other girls that have homeschool in common with her. My 13 dd is in a homeschool play this year. She LOVES going for the fellowship. I have been very pleased about this.
What kind of curriculum or books are you using? Are there any changes you could make with that to help her be able to work more independant? For instance... if you have a computer, could she do a couple of classes on it? I bought Teaching Textbooks this year, it has been one of the best things! My boys will do Math and it is graded for them. It is one less class I need to worry about, or put on hold because I don't have time to sit with them. I know I had to make a complete curriculum change with my boys. They needed shorter lessons, that were sweet and to the point. We got rid of the "boxed" curriculum and mixed and matched. Now they are 12 and 11 and pretty much do their work on their own. I help very little. I do correct and will go over if their work shows they aren't understanding something. I try and do this 1-2 times a week.
You could also try incentives to keep her on course. What does she like to do? My boys love to play outside and play video games. They HAVE to do their work diligently and in a timely manner to earn the video games and things have to be complete before they play outside.
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/27/2008 3:47:15 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4986
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From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
I did hear about a co-op but they require that a parent much do some volunteer teaching/helping on Thursdays which won't work for my schedule.
You might see if you can get an exemption. Ours is pretty similar, but they do have an alternative where you can pay an extra $15 to be allowed to drop off your kid instead of teaching. It's not something they encourage, but they do have that option.
As for finding groups, a lot of them aren't on the web. You just have to find them by asking around. When we moved here we had to find a homeschool group, but it was pretty easy to track down. Someone around here knew someone else who homeschooled, and I called them, and they gave me the number of someone else, who gave me to someone else who was in charge of the group. I wouldn't have found them on the web.
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/27/2008 5:01:38 PM
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cindybode
Posts: 1547
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From: Northwest PA
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Sometimes you have to get a little tough to break the habit of wanting constant attention. A couple of mine tended to run to me after finishing every math problem and ask if it was right. I just kept saying, "When you've finished the page I'll check it," and they eventually broke the habit. Obviously if they really need help I will help them, but I think they're past the stage where they should need a pat on the back because they finished one problem.
If she's constantly bringing you the book and asking what to do, try this. Tell her to read the first sentence of the instructions out loud. After she's done that, ask her which part of that direction she didn't understand. Then have her read the next sentence. If you refuse to read the directions for her, she'll figure out that she has to do it herself.
Do you think your daughter might get a bit more enthusiastic about school if you ditched the books for a bit and allowed her to do a unit study on something she's interested in? In my experience, the biggest reason for kids to struggle with getting their work done (assuming the material isn't too difficult for them) is boredom. If someone handed me a fill in the blank workbook on art history and told me I had to have it done next week, I'd struggle too, because I hate fill in the blank and I'm not interested in art history. If you gave me a hands on biology experiment, I'd be done tomorrow.
_____________________________
If you lock in any creature, from rats to chickens to pigs to people, 10 to 30 or more in a box and force feed them you'll create little monsters. Confinement Education School Operations (CESOs) just don't compare to naturally pastured free-ranged kids.
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/28/2008 6:27:31 AM
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seekingmyLord
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It seems to me that you have a very full plate.
I also used to have a demanding home business. It seemed my life was just a series of interruptions between the business and the child. I remember feeling like I have to do this right now and the child can wait a few minutes or work on her own, but the reality was there is no end to the I-have-to-do's and I asked myself often what memories was I creating for my child. I did notice my daughter did work on her own better if she was at her own desk sitting near my desk.
I made it a point to leave my home and not forward calls to the cell phone every Wednesday for about three to five hours and spend it with my daughter. Because she was so young, we just went to storytime at the public library and then out to lunch--of course, I always had packages to mail out so that included a stop at the post office as well. In the afternoon we would do something else like shopping or something planned or spontaneous.
My situation was different in part because my daughter was so young and truly needed one-on-one attention at that stage of learning and the business was second income. It did get to the point that I was questioning how I could homeschool and serve my clients, but the Lord shut that door for me--slammed it hard actually, because I am one who will tend to ignore a subtle hint, obviously...or just take it as a challenge. I also have a very outgoing daughter and, perhaps, she was more encouraged to be so unafraid of people because of my business activities.
However, even with all these differences, I understand one particular thing: You cannot juggle homeschooling, business, home, and creating an active social life for your daughter. My daughter was social with everyone everywhere we went, but if she had been shy I don't think I would have had the time or energy to do anything different than I did.
I do understand why you are concerned. I had a sister who was painfully shy. She has had very few friends all her life and was very clingy with our mother. It is just the way she was and still is--Actually, I hope my daughter and I are that close when she grows up.
It is healthy for your daughter to have the opportunity to interact with children and adults of all ages, if you are able to provide that opportunity. A very good way for children to interact without pressure is to go on field trips were their attention is on something else instead of on meeting other children and yet they do meet other children. Sports or clubs like 4H, girl scouts, etc. are also good for you, although a bit more pressure for her. Making a naturely shy child meet other children can be just too much pressure to place on her.
Structured homeschool groups can be too demanding of your time with all that you are trying to do as it is. That was another door I had to walk into a few times before I understood the Lord had it shut for us at this time--even without my business and having more time than I did. (I did tell you that I am not too good with taking subtle hints, didn't I?)
My advice is to try to provide the opportunity when the focus is on something that interests her, but don't have any expectation of her to be anything other than who she is and don't stress yourself out about any of it. When I finally gave up homeschool groups, I was so concerned that I was not doing things right for my child because that is what all the other homeschool parents in the group think should be done (groups have their own style of peer pressure, in a way) and I have an only child, but then I had been praying and asking for the Lord to guide me to raise this child as He wills and He was. When I finally realized that, I relaxed.
I trust that the Lord will provide her with the opportunities that He wants for her and it works out perfectly. My daughter has wanted to learn to ride horses as my family were horse people (although we don't have any) and the Lord led me to a 4H horse club that I could not find after looking and asking about one for a couple of years--and it meets just one mile from our home AND the lessons for 4H members are so affordable I nearly fell over in delight when they told me the cost, a third of what they are.
Please don't worry about what everyone else thinks you or your daughter should or should not do. If you have concerns about her needs, ask the Lord, and go with His plan, even if it means that she just needs you more--this may not be about her as much as it is about you. Simply rest in the Lord that He will provide for your daughter and He will...and for you too.
< Message edited by seekingmyLord -- 9/28/2008 6:55:28 AM >
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/29/2008 10:51:12 PM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 716
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: offline
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quote:
Sadly, I don't have an option about working full time. My husband and I own our own business and we are both here 40+ hours a week.
Your daughter is already learning, by being with you, what it takes to make it in the real world.
I invoke God's favor upon your busy household, and envy your daughter the opportunity she has to participate in your lives and work. My dad's career was a completely alien world to me.
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The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Considering quitting HSing - 9/30/2008 9:01:09 AM
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amybreit
Posts: 785
Joined: 2/10/2006
Status: offline
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Is there any way to involve your dd in the business. Maybe there are some tasks she could help with that would take something out of your hands & be educational for her! I'm not sure what kind of business you have, so I'm not sure what things to suggest. I was thinking of things like filing, filling/packing orders, taking inventory.
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<------ Staci & Stoli, our k9 kids!
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