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Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 6:19:14 AM
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Jemtree
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What is your crutch? What area do you trust the world's solutions over trusting in God?
It makes me sad to come to see so many Christians trusting more in drugging their minds to subdue the strongholds over their emotions and thoughts, and their kids to get them to sit still in a classroom.
It makes me sad that it's more a rarity for Christians to trust God to fix these problems, or that they are even really problems to begin with.
I am not talking about people who really need medication for things: my dad is schizo, he needs drugs. There are real problems.
And then, there is the popularity of anti-depressants, which I find the name of that drug to be oxymornic, LOL! More people are depressed and completely emotionless taking those drugs, than they are not taking them.
Diet would solve so many of peoples "balance" issues. Seriously, eating healthy and avoiding junk makes a huge difference in our whole body chemistry.
Prayer, encouragement from other believers, getting involved in activities to serve God that take the focus off of meditating on self and how we feel.
I'm not saying I don't believe it's real for some, and that all who experience don't believe it to be real: I am saying that the way it is being handled does absolutely nothing to distinguish us from the world.
For every Christian who relies on some of the junk that doesn't even really solve or help, it just covers up stuff: come on, I know God has different solution.
We have a powerful God, and yet: to the world, we look like a helpless, powerless people who rely on the medical community to fix us when it is God Who created us.
Don't you think if there is really something that needs to be fixed, that God wants to be The One to fix the problems?
We give the medical profession all the glory, when God says He will not give His Glory to another.
I know what I am saying is not popular.
Please, just meditate on this.
We are crippling our witness every time we go to an outside source to solve our "problems".
We are telling the world that God did something wrong when He created us that only medical science can fix.
We are essentially telling the world: our belief in such an All Powerful God is a joke.
Please consider your own decisions, and how you can make the difference to bring God the glory He alone deserves.
Please, just read this and consider. I'm not trying to start an argument, I am hoping to encourage us all to rely more upon God than we already do, to make our witness about God's power in our lives be first and foremost before every choice we make.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 8:50:19 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1652
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jemtree
We have a powerful God, and yet: to the world, we look like a helpless, powerless people who rely on the medical community to fix us when it is God Who created us.
Really? I can't think of one time when I've heard folks of any religion criticized by the secular community for seeking professional medical help. I have, however, witnessed many cases of religious folks mocked and, in some cases, legally prosecuted for eschewing medical treatment because of a belief that God will heal them.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 9:20:22 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6503
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quote:
We give the medical profession all the glory, when God says He will not give His Glory to another.
I know what I am saying is not popular.
No, what you're saying is a little silly.
God has given humans the ability to discover many things about our world, including medicine and math and music and agriculture and a multitude of things. He created them and they all glorify Him. Plus, when a medical professional has done all he cab, only God can cause healing. Just like a farmer can only do so much, only God can cause the seed to germinate and produce a crop.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 9:22:15 AM
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Szaftoo
Posts: 864
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: So. Calif.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jemtree
We have a powerful God, and yet: to the world, we look like a helpless, powerless people who rely on the medical community to fix us when it is God Who created us.
Really? I can't think of one time when I've heard folks of any religion criticized by the secular community for seeking professional medical help. I have, however, witnessed many cases of religious folks mocked and, in some cases, legally prosecuted for eschewing medical treatment because of a belief that God will heal them.
-Dan.
I agree. I believe we can accept healing from the hand of God or the hands of a trained physician. I think we cripple our witness by refusing professional medical help at times. God gave wisdom and knowledge to man for our benefit and I don't think it is a lack of faith at all. I will always trust the Lord for any medical needs I may have but I won't rule our professional help either.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 9:23:55 AM
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Jemtree
Posts: 27
Joined: 6/30/2008
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No. I'm not talking about going to the doctor because we need surgery.
I interact with many that aren't Christians. Trust me: they mock because we show lack of faith for trusting God concerning certain issues.
If it isn't something you have seen, maybe it just isn't as prevalent where you are. Or, maybe you just aren't recognizing it.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 10:08:26 AM
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Szaftoo
Posts: 864
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: So. Calif.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jemtree
No. I'm not talking about going to the doctor because we need surgery.
I interact with many that aren't Christians. Trust me: they mock because we show lack of faith for trusting God concerning certain issues.
If it isn't something you have seen, maybe it just isn't as prevalent where you are. Or, maybe you just aren't recognizing it.
In my area, Christians are mocked when they allow a treatable illness to continue or even bring death because they don't take advantage of professional medical help. The world is watching us all the time and expects us to use good judgment.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 10:49:22 AM
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Jemtree
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I agree.
But, I also realize we must have a balance. God must be seen and Glorified in our lives. Some of the things we turn to don't allow that.
God isn't even being given the chance to work, because it's way too easy to get acceptable drugs.
God works through medicine, and He works without it. Depending on doctors to fix things that may not even really be something that needs to be fixed, that isn't trusting in God. That is what gets mocked.
Running to the doctor for cure-alls because we aren't happy, or because our children won't sit still in class, that's not something that should be medicated near as much as it is.
Many are relying on drugs when they should be meditating on God's Word.
For some, yes, drugs may be necessary, but for some, it's just the thing to do because that's what everyone else is doing to fix this problem.
It isn't being fixed, in some cases it not only makes it worse, but it creates other problems, physically and otherwise.
My concern is Christians depending more on drugs to "fix" unhappiness than turning to God to fix their heart. many times, it's a "heart" condition, meaning, there is a problem with how someone is responding to things because of circumstances, not because pills are needed.
God created our minds very delicately. God is The Only One Who can read our thoughts. If our thoughts are drugged up, does He even want to? If our emotions are numbed because of pills to make us not feel anxious, are we honoring God? Really? His Word tells us to be anxious for nothing. To pray without ceasing. It says nothing about anxiousness needing to be fixed by drugs. It needs to be given over to God, He is The Author and Finisher of our Faith.
Are we going to be found as a people who have more faith in pills than in God, for these things?
Again, I am not talking about things like not going to the doctor if you are dying, or need surgery.
I am talking specifically about things the Bible addresses, and our lack of trusting in God to help us overcome what is common to man, but not impossible for God.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 11:18:24 AM
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Focusing
Posts: 5731
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Jemtree, yes, all things are possible with God. And, yes, some people actually do need medication for various medical concerns. I don't believe seeking medical treatment is considered a "crutch". Oftentimes there is more going on that others realize, and to receive judgment from another who is unaware of all the circumstances, and particularly someone who is not in a position to make a call as to how a person chooses to best treat the condition, is, well, judgmental.
That is why we, as believers, need to turn to God and pray over our own conditions in deciding how best to treat them. And as brothers and sisters in Christ, it is our responsibility to lift others up in prayer, asking the Lord to help guide them in making the best possible decision.
_____________________________
"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
Hebrews 12:14
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 11:37:02 AM
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Jemtree
Posts: 27
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It is judgmental to encourage people to examine why they are making some decisions and trusting certain things that they are??
It is judgmental to encourage and remind people that it should be the Glorification of God in all things we should place first and foremost in every decision we make?
I am not judgmental. I am disappointed in those I personally know who choose the easy man made way over trusting God. Yes, I am speaking about people I personally know, and I am using them as my example. Not people I don't know.
For some, there is a much better way. For those I know who, yes, use these drugs as a crutch, yes, there is a better way. That is not judgment, that is concern for the appearance we give others concerning what and who we put our trust in.
If people who read this are already placing God's glorification first in their decisions, then this isn't meant as an encouragement for them.
We all need to take time some times to examine why we are doing what we do, and how it affects our relationship with God, and our witness to the world. We need to hold ourselves accountable, and not make excuses for not trusting God for things. We all have those areas, everyone of us.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 11:56:42 AM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 756
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jemtree
I agree.
But, I also realize we must have a balance. God must be seen and Glorified in our lives. Some of the things we turn to don't allow that.
God isn't even being given the chance to work, because it's way too easy to get acceptable drugs.
God works through medicine, and He works without it. Depending on doctors to fix things that may not even really be something that needs to be fixed, that isn't trusting in God. That is what gets mocked.
Running to the doctor for cure-alls because we aren't happy, or because our children won't sit still in class, that's not something that should be medicated near as much as it is.
Many are relying on drugs when they should be meditating on God's Word.
For some, yes, drugs may be necessary, but for some, it's just the thing to do because that's what everyone else is doing to fix this problem.
It isn't being fixed, in some cases it not only makes it worse, but it creates other problems, physically and otherwise.
My concern is Christians depending more on drugs to "fix" unhappiness than turning to God to fix their heart. many times, it's a "heart" condition, meaning, there is a problem with how someone is responding to things because of circumstances, not because pills are needed.
God created our minds very delicately. God is The Only One Who can read our thoughts. If our thoughts are drugged up, does He even want to? If our emotions are numbed because of pills to make us not feel anxious, are we honoring God? Really? His Word tells us to be anxious for nothing. To pray without ceasing. It says nothing about anxiousness needing to be fixed by drugs. It needs to be given over to God, He is The Author and Finisher of our Faith.
Are we going to be found as a people who have more faith in pills than in God, for these things?
Again, I am not talking about things like not going to the doctor if you are dying, or need surgery.
I am talking specifically about things the Bible addresses, and our lack of trusting in God to help us overcome what is common to man, but not impossible for God.
quote:
For some, yes, drugs may be necessary, but for some, it's just the thing to do because that's what everyone else is doing to fix this problem.
It isn't being fixed, in some cases it not only makes it worse, but it creates other problems, physically and otherwise.
I actually agree with a lot of what you have said Jemtree. I have seen it first hand. My sister was diagnosed as bi polar quite a few years ago. She has been on every drug on the market, and not one of them has done a thing. My father is not a believer, my Mother is, but they went the traditional route of medication, which has not worked. Now that I am a believer, I see her problems as spiritual and not medical. We are too quick sometimes to turn to the world for help, when we have the great physician to turn to. There are things going on that no medication known to man can fix, and does inevitably make it worse. People become dependent on drugs and go through life in bondage to them. Jesus came to free all of the captives and I think that applies here.
That being said, and you have already acknowledged this, but there are times when it is and solely is a medical condition. But we tend to want answers now, and a quick fix, and sometimes God doesn't work that way, so we turn to the world for help.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 12:12:57 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jemtree
We all need to take time some times to examine why we are doing what we do, and how it affects our relationship with God, and our witness to the world. We need to hold ourselves accountable, and not make excuses for not trusting God for things. We all have those areas, everyone of us.[/size]
How is this different than when you need groceries that you go to the market and write a check or use a debit card?
What's it say that you use the same methods as the world to feed yourself and family rather than waiting for God to send the goods to your door without cost? You should hold yourself accountable and not make excuses for not trusting God for things. The lost must really wonder about your lack of faith in the matter of food... and clothes... and shelter...
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 12:56:59 PM
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Jemtree
Posts: 27
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: offline
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I have been in situations where I had to trust in God for food. A stranger came to our door with food once when the military suddenly decided to not pay us, with no warning. They didn't know we had need, but God did.
I trust God for all things. I have seen him do some amazing things. And, I don't write checks that can't be covered when they are written.
So, your examples are completely off, not even close to the topic I have presented here.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 12:58:16 PM
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Jemtree
Posts: 27
Joined: 6/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jemtree
I agree.
But, I also realize we must have a balance. God must be seen and Glorified in our lives. Some of the things we turn to don't allow that.
God isn't even being given the chance to work, because it's way too easy to get acceptable drugs.
God works through medicine, and He works without it. Depending on doctors to fix things that may not even really be something that needs to be fixed, that isn't trusting in God. That is what gets mocked.
Running to the doctor for cure-alls because we aren't happy, or because our children won't sit still in class, that's not something that should be medicated near as much as it is.
Many are relying on drugs when they should be meditating on God's Word.
For some, yes, drugs may be necessary, but for some, it's just the thing to do because that's what everyone else is doing to fix this problem.
It isn't being fixed, in some cases it not only makes it worse, but it creates other problems, physically and otherwise.
My concern is Christians depending more on drugs to "fix" unhappiness than turning to God to fix their heart. many times, it's a "heart" condition, meaning, there is a problem with how someone is responding to things because of circumstances, not because pills are needed.
God created our minds very delicately. God is The Only One Who can read our thoughts. If our thoughts are drugged up, does He even want to? If our emotions are numbed because of pills to make us not feel anxious, are we honoring God? Really? His Word tells us to be anxious for nothing. To pray without ceasing. It says nothing about anxiousness needing to be fixed by drugs. It needs to be given over to God, He is The Author and Finisher of our Faith.
Are we going to be found as a people who have more faith in pills than in God, for these things?
Again, I am not talking about things like not going to the doctor if you are dying, or need surgery.
I am talking specifically about things the Bible addresses, and our lack of trusting in God to help us overcome what is common to man, but not impossible for God.
quote:
For some, yes, drugs may be necessary, but for some, it's just the thing to do because that's what everyone else is doing to fix this problem.
It isn't being fixed, in some cases it not only makes it worse, but it creates other problems, physically and otherwise.
I actually agree with a lot of what you have said Jemtree. I have seen it first hand. My sister was diagnosed as bi polar quite a few years ago. She has been on every drug on the market, and not one of them has done a thing. My father is not a believer, my Mother is, but they went the traditional route of medication, which has not worked. Now that I am a believer, I see her problems as spiritual and not medical. We are too quick sometimes to turn to the world for help, when we have the great physician to turn to. There are things going on that no medication known to man can fix, and does inevitably make it worse. People become dependent on drugs and go through life in bondage to them. Jesus came to free all of the captives and I think that applies here.
That being said, and you have already acknowledged this, but there are times when it is and solely is a medical condition. But we tend to want answers now, and a quick fix, and sometimes God doesn't work that way, so we turn to the world for help.
Thank you for your response. It's so wonderful to be understood. :)
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 1:32:08 PM
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Szaftoo
Posts: 864
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: So. Calif.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jemtree
I agree.
But, I also realize we must have a balance. God must be seen and Glorified in our lives. Some of the things we turn to don't allow that.
God isn't even being given the chance to work, because it's way too easy to get acceptable drugs.
God works through medicine, and He works without it. Depending on doctors to fix things that may not even really be something that needs to be fixed, that isn't trusting in God. That is what gets mocked.
Running to the doctor for cure-alls because we aren't happy, or because our children won't sit still in class, that's not something that should be medicated near as much as it is.
Many are relying on drugs when they should be meditating on God's Word.
For some, yes, drugs may be necessary, but for some, it's just the thing to do because that's what everyone else is doing to fix this problem.
It isn't being fixed, in some cases it not only makes it worse, but it creates other problems, physically and otherwise.
My concern is Christians depending more on drugs to "fix" unhappiness than turning to God to fix their heart. many times, it's a "heart" condition, meaning, there is a problem with how someone is responding to things because of circumstances, not because pills are needed.
God created our minds very delicately. God is The Only One Who can read our thoughts. If our thoughts are drugged up, does He even want to? If our emotions are numbed because of pills to make us not feel anxious, are we honoring God? Really? His Word tells us to be anxious for nothing. To pray without ceasing. It says nothing about anxiousness needing to be fixed by drugs. It needs to be given over to God, He is The Author and Finisher of our Faith.
Are we going to be found as a people who have more faith in pills than in God, for these things?
Again, I am not talking about things like not going to the doctor if you are dying, or need surgery.
I am talking specifically about things the Bible addresses, and our lack of trusting in God to help us overcome what is common to man, but not impossible for God.
Since you changeded the subject to drugs, I agree with you. I feel our world is way too mediated, especially for things that are not necessary. I agree people take drugs for issues that can be addressed by discipline or a change in attitude. Not everything requires a pill, some do.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 1:55:52 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1628
Joined: 1/22/2008
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I, too, agree with alot of your thoughts, Jemtree.
I think we are people of small faith.
Probably the best illustration is when someone who is a Christian is diagnosed with terminal cancer. I have watched these individuals grasp at any and every straw offered even when the oncologists make it clear that they would not participate in said treatment, that it will not give them any more quality of life and in fact decrease the quality of whatever time they have left. ?!?!?!? What does that say to an unbelieving world?
And at whose expense? Don't we realize that we are ALL paying for these exorbitant treatments. Insurance is like taxes. The money does not grow on trees. It is being taken out of the pocketbooks of those who make the money and pay for services.
So $11,000 for one IV treatment that won't make you well and will make you feel worse???
Who does that tell the world we love?
Yes, I think you've brought up a very interesting and needful subject. I recently heard it discussed on NPR and I heard very wise people talking about this 'craziness' in our society.
Shouldn't the believing community live differently? die differently?
I think yes.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 2:24:16 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5731
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
It is judgmental to encourage people to examine why they are making some decisions and trusting certain things that they are??
No, I don't think it's judgmental. I agree with you on the issue you have raised. I don't think people should try to mask a problem (via the use of a "crutch"). We need to deal with an issue at the root, and sometimes finding the correct weed in order to pull the root is difficult. It's hard work, and oftentimes people just don't want to get that dirty looking for it.
What I do know is sometimes seeking medical treatment allows a person a better opportunity to see life through clearer eyes, calm down some emotions running through our human minds, and be able to seek after God.
I want to be sure nobody is being discouraged from seeking treatment that can help them because they are fearful of what others think.
If it helps, my comments are directed to those who suffer from depression ... yes, absolutely, God can and will help them ... but from under the dark veil of depression so often they cannot see it. Sometimes - in severe cases - it requires lifelong medication, but sometimes it requires temporary medication, allowing a person to view the situation from a better angle, get a grasp on it, and deal with it.
Perhaps we agree on this ... I just wanted to clarify my comments.
_____________________________
"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
Hebrews 12:14
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 2:30:40 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jemtree
I have been in situations where I had to trust in God for food. A stranger came to our door with food once when the military suddenly decided to not pay us, with no warning. They didn't know we had need, but God did.
But you don't do it all the time, just when you are in a dire condition. Sames as folk with a medical problem.
I don't know about your situation, but my doctors - and dentists - of choice are born again.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 2:40:27 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 756
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Focusing
No, I don't think it's judgmental. I agree with you on the issue you have raised. I don't think people should try to mask a problem (via the use of a "crutch"). We need to deal with an issue at the root, and sometimes finding the correct weed in order to pull the root is difficult. It's hard work, and oftentimes people just don't want to get that dirty looking for it.
What I do know is sometimes seeking medical treatment allows a person a better opportunity to see life through clearer eyes, calm down some emotions running through our human minds, and be able to seek after God.
I want to be sure nobody is being discouraged from seeking treatment that can help them because they are fearful of what others think.
If it helps, my comments are directed to those who suffer from depression ... yes, absolutely, God can and will help them ... but from under the dark veil of depression so often they cannot see it. Sometimes - in severe cases - it requires lifelong medication, but sometimes it requires temporary medication, allowing a person to view the situation from a better angle, get a grasp on it, and deal with it.
Perhaps we agree on this ... I just wanted to clarify my comments.
Like you said sometimes we don't do the necessary work to find the root of the problem, and let some doctor tell us it is a chemical imbalance, or some sort of depression that needs to be dealt with by taking all this medication. I don't think anyone should spend a life time under the haze of drugs. I don't see how in a drug intoxicated life problems can become more clear to the person taking them. But i also would not want someone reading this to not seek a medical opinion. Go to God in prayer, and go to the doctors also. But then you must decide, and I would also advise seeking the help of a Christian counselor. They tend to look at things differently than secular doctors do.
I think the point is, to not just take the worlds solutions, all the while taking God out of the equation. That does not mean don't go and try to get help, and of course don't worry about how the world views you. If the world is not pointing to one fault, it is pointing to another. They either tell us we don't have enough faith, or they tell us we have too much faith. They will always find fault in us, in a world growing more hostile towards Christians every day.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 2:55:04 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5731
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
I don't see how in a drug intoxicated life problems can become more clear to the person taking them.
I can assure you it does happen, problems can become more clear. And when it happens, the medication is no longer necessary.
How do I know? Personal experience. My life. It's part of my testimony.
The medication did not put me into a drug-induced stupor. LOL
Quite the contrary. Things became clearer. I was able to see the issues I needed to deal with. And I did. And I no longer take any medication.
We all have different testimonies. And it's important to hear from those who have been there done that. Others have been places I have never been, and hope to never go, but I choose to not discount their stories or their experiences. What they have to say may be exactly what God needs to bring someone else to Him.
_____________________________
"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
Hebrews 12:14
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 3:03:19 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 756
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Focusing
quote:
I don't see how in a drug intoxicated life problems can become more clear to the person taking them.
I can assure you it does happen, problems can become more clear. And when it happens, the medication is no longer necessary.
How do I know? Personal experience. My life. It's part of my testimony.
The medication did not put me into a drug-induced stupor. LOL
Quite the contrary. Things became clearer. I was able to see the issues I needed to deal with. And I did. And I no longer take any medication.
We all have different testimonies. And it's important to hear from those who have been there done that. Others have been places I have never been, and hope to never go, but I choose to not discount their stories or their experiences. What they have to say may be exactly what God needs to bring someone else to Him.
That is very true.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 4:00:54 PM
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swtonscrappn
Posts: 10
Joined: 7/2/2008
Status: offline
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I completely agree with the OP. I would like to add that I am currently in training to become a biblical counselor, and I have done plenty of research on the drugs, attitudes, and needs of people diagnosed with depression, anxiety, bi-polarism, and others. Many many times there is a link between choices and activities in their life and their quality of their life currently. By simply medicating these people, we are allowing them to cover up their sin by being led with their emotion. (The same is true with using drugs to prevent people from drinking, smoking, or gaining weight...their heart hasnt changed) Do you know how often I hear "these meds really made a difference" or "I dont think I will ever stop taking these, they changed my life". Often the reason they were put on them in the first place was due to a life altering event. It may make you feel good, but it doesnt solve the issue.
I would like to add that Mental Health has only been really expanded on in the last 100 years. In that time, countless methods have been used to change the brain only to have detrimental effects noticed years or decades down the road. We look back and think, "Ha, we are smarter than that...who would try such a thing". Dont be so vain as to believe that we've gotten it right either. Its obvious that meds do change the brain, and often we get the result we want...but we still dont know what the long term affects on plenty of these meds.
And as a final note, When we remove sin using secular means, we will find ourselves on judgement day having to answer for that. God is going to want to know why we refused to turn to Him in order to have a quick fix.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 5:06:57 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5731
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
When we remove sin using secular means, we will find ourselves on judgement day having to answer for that. God is going to want to know why we refused to turn to Him in order to have a quick fix.
Hi swtonscrappn, and welcome.
The meds don't remove the sin, they are oftentimes used to mask the pain experienced as a result of the sin. I, too, believe we will answer to God for our choices, and I also believe He would not hold it against us for using meds to help us through the dark tunnel and back to the straight and narrow path.
My analogy of using meds to help during a time in a person's life who is experiencing depression can be likened to a person breaking their leg. While we pray and ask God to heal our leg, there's nothing wrong with going to the doctor and having a cast put on it to help in the healing process.
Sometimes a person doesn't even stop to think - ahead of time - "I will ask God to heal me miraculously" ... it's part of our nature to seek help. When you have a lung infection, what do you do? Proceed with life as normal and pray that God heal you and avoid going to the doctor, or do you seek medical advice in additional to praying?
I think that's wonderful that you are training to become a Biblical counselor.  Mental health is extremely complicated. There is no one size fits all cure. I'm sure you are learning about the various types of depression ... not all of them are situational, some are genetic. Some allow a person to continue functioning normally, some incapacitate a person to the point they cannot even get out of bed. My concern is that those who suffer a more serious form of depression may come in and read these comments, feel the guilt pile up, and not seek the help they need. (This was my experience, until I finally reached a point where I was unable to cope with daily life.) If help wasn't needed, we would have no need for counseling either. Fortunately, it does exist, and I know how truly thankful I am for it. But I can also say, from my own personal experience, that the counseling did absolutely nothing for me, it meant nothing, until I was on meds that helped clear a fog from my mind ... a block that I just was unable to see past.
The beauty of counseling, once a person is able to see past the fog, is to help us see what our sins are. As my walk with God carries me along the path, I see sin in my life that I didn't know existed before. There is no doubt in my mind that we can all say that ... since none of us are perfect.
So, the flip side to this discussion could be: is it possible that a person will seek medical help, experience that freedom that really comes from breaking free from sin, but not realizing that they are simply masking it by taking meds? I would venture that many people take meds and this could very well be the situation. Is it a mask, or is it breaking free from sin? That's where having a mentor or seeking Biblical counseling comes in, in conjunction with the use of meds.
_____________________________
"Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
Hebrews 12:14
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 5:42:21 PM
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justasheep
Posts: 44
Joined: 5/13/2008
Status: offline
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Jemtree,
I also agree with much of what you said. Especially if we are talking specifically about anti-depressants and the like. Should christians really live lives that are primarily depressed in nature? No doubt all of us have times that get us down. That's why we are to "hope in God." I think of Paul who was in prison and had every reason to grumble and yet he said,
12 I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. 13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.
Now obviously we are to use the minds that God has given us and the resources that He has sovereignly created but I'm afraid that christians often reach for the bottle of pills before reaching for the word of God. This ought not be, we should be finding our joy in God, even fighting for it if need be.
_____________________________
Life is wasted if we do not grasp the glory of the cross, cheerish it for the treasure that it is, and cleave to it as the highest price of every pleasure and the deepest comfort of every pain.
John Piper
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/3/2008 11:48:43 PM
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Jemtree
Posts: 27
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jemtree
I have been in situations where I had to trust in God for food. A stranger came to our door with food once when the military suddenly decided to not pay us, with no warning. They didn't know we had need, but God did.
But you don't do it all the time, just when you are in a dire condition. Sames as folk with a medical problem.
I don't know about your situation, but my doctors - and dentists - of choice are born again.
Actually, God is our Provider, and we use the money He provides for us through my husband working. We use the banking system because, yes, that is the worlds system for money management.
You are purposefully making this more complicated to make me flustered. It won't work though.
People have a choice about how to handle things. Just like I use cash to pay for things much more than any other method, when that is the option my husband allows me to have. He has chosen our banking system. Yes, he chose it.
There are many doctors and dentists that are born again. Our dentist is someone that my husband went on a Philippines mission trip with. Yes, he is very much Saved.
If you will go back and carefully read what I posted, you will find that I did say that God does work through doctors sometimes.
You just read what you wanted to, because you don't agree with what I am saying. By doing that, you are completely missing my point.
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RE: Christians and "crutches" - 7/4/2008 12:03:45 AM
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