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Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 10:34:14 AM
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ChelaW
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It was my understanding that once you're saved, you're saved. Period. As humans, we don't "earn" our way into heaven, it is only by professing & believing that Jesus is the Son of God that we get into heaven. Then once we're saved, we live rightously BECAUSE we're saved, not TO BE saved.
However, my boyfriend is a wonderful Christian man who's more well-versed in the Word than I am. We were having a deep conversation last night about his personal struggles. He has one sinfull "vice" that he's been trying to kick for years, but often falls. I was trying to encourage him saying that God knows his intentions, and even though he stumbles, he is God-fearing and every single day he tries again...many people don't even do that. But he was saying that he feels like if he died tonight he wouldn't go to heaven bc the Bible says that no "idolaters (sp?), adulterers, whoremongers...shall enter the gates of heaven."
Can someone help clear this up for me? I've just never been taught that you can negate your salvation. I want to be an encouraging, supportive girlfriend.
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 10:40:06 AM
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JimboFletch
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If someone believes that, according to scripture. they are saved by grace, why would they think that they are kept by works?
As Paul wrote, "for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 10:44:33 AM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1184
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From: Opp, Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChelaW
It was my understanding that once you're saved, you're saved. Period. As humans, we don't "earn" our way into heaven, it is only by professing & believing that Jesus is the Son of God that we get into heaven. Then once we're saved, we live rightously BECAUSE we're saved, not TO BE saved.
However, my boyfriend is a wonderful Christian man who's more well-versed in the Word than I am. We were having a deep conversation last night about his personal struggles. He has one sinfull "vice" that he's been trying to kick for years, but often falls. I was trying to encourage him saying that God knows his intentions, and even though he stumbles, he is God-fearing and every single day he tries again...many people don't even do that. But he was saying that he feels like if he died tonight he wouldn't go to heaven bc the Bible says that no "idolaters (sp?), adulterers, whoremongers...shall enter the gates of heaven."
Can someone help clear this up for me? I've just never been taught that you can negate your salvation. I want to be an encouraging, supportive girlfriend.
While I do believe that salvation can be rejected once received, it doesn't sound to me like your boyfriend falls into that situation. He has not rejected his salvation, but has continued to commit a certain sin. Committing sin is always forgiven by God upon repentance. Therefore, since it seems that your boyfriend is genuinely sorry for the sin he's committing I would say that he's in no danger of negating his salvation.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 11:00:08 AM
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ChelaW
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[/quote]
Committing sin is always forgiven by God upon repentance. Therefore, since it seems that your boyfriend is genuinely sorry for the sin he's committing I would say that he's in no danger of negating his salvation.
[/quote]
He really is genuinely sorry for his sin...almost to the point that he beats himself up with it. Actually, he's all down on himself today because of our conversation last night. How can I be encouraging to him right now?
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 11:03:26 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
If someone believes that, according to scripture. they are saved by grace, why would they think that they are kept by works?
As Paul wrote, "for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."
When we are truly born-again - we are His and He is ours. We are bought by His precious shed blood, we are no longer our own property nor should we foolishly think we can over power Jesus.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 11:03:35 AM
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d4nnyb0y02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
If someone believes that, according to scripture. they are saved by grace, why would they think that they are kept by works?
As Paul wrote, "for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."
Amen.
Galatians 3:1-3
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 11:33:36 AM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
If someone believes that, according to scripture. they are saved by grace, why would they think that they are kept by works?
As Paul wrote, "for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."
I'm with this view.
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 12:03:55 PM
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jbrownifg
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christ died on the cross to pay for our sins, past, present , and future. now-- by accepting this and truly, believing in our hearts that he did this for our salvation, and accepting him as our savior we are baptized by the holy spirt we are now saved christians saved by his grace and the blood ransom he he paid. now, we are all sinners and fall short of his glory, if we continue to commit sins as christians, he more than likely will chastize us. this done thru hardship, missfortune, sickness on ourselves or our loved ones. he is calling to us, please comeback, honor me i love you, i have not forgotten you. if we get to far away from him, he will bring us home. for he has said, i am the sheppard, and ye are the flock. and not one lamb shall be lost
once saved --- always saved!!!
jerry
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 1:05:07 PM
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pg4Him
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It sounds like your boyfriend is missing the mark on Arminianism. The notion that we can reject our own salvation does not apply to stumbling or fighting to overcome sin - it deals with people who blatantly and intentionally ignore God. The fact that he is fighting these sinful habits is proof of the Spirit still working on him.
Arminianism isn't about work based salvation; it's about believing that Christ is a gentleman who won't stay where He is no longer welcome. Jesus doesn't "give up on us" when we annoy Him but He doesn't force us to stay in His flock. I'm not trying to argue with anyone who believes differently, just wanted to provide some clarity on what Arminianins believe.
So your boyfriend needs to chill. No one ever completely overcomes all their problems and Jesus isn't expecting him to snap his fingers and watch his problems disappear. Sometimes it takes a while to tear down the idols in our lives, and sometimes the process can be quite painful. The point is to keep trying and that's all Christ asks for.
_____________________________
To hear the Word and not *do* the Word is to still not know the Word.
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 1:21:39 PM
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DaveW
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There are some hyper-arminian groups that believe that if you are even tempted to sin you have lost salvation. (I know - I grew up in one of them) Your bf may be from that stream of thought.
If that thinking is not bad enough, frequently they "invent" more sins thereby eroding faith (and whatsoever is not of faith becomes sinful even if it is not a sin in and of itself). The bible outlines plenty of inherently sinful behaviour without anyone adding to the list. That was one of Jesus'criticisms of the Pharasees. They use 'logic' to piece together a doctrine that really is not scripturally supportable. God gives us grace to deal with the real sins in our lives; I know of no passage that speaks to man-made sins; whether HE graces us to avoid them or not.
BTW - tell your bf that struggling against sin IS walking in the spirit. The psalmist tells us that God is mindful of our frame that we are but dust.
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 1:26:08 PM
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pg4Him
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Agreed Dave - the Puritans and the Amish both fell into that trap, and it's disappointing. When manmade peeves start defining sin we end up in a contest to see who can look the most righteous. These people give Arminianism a bad name. 
_____________________________
To hear the Word and not *do* the Word is to still not know the Word.
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 1:45:55 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChelaW
It was my understanding that once you're saved, you're saved. Period. As humans, we don't "earn" our way into heaven, it is only by professing & believing that Jesus is the Son of God that we get into heaven. Then once we're saved, we live rightously BECAUSE we're saved, not TO BE saved.
A couple of passages fpr you to consider as you are contemplating this;
(Mat 24:11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
(Mat 24:12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
(Mat 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And
(Heb 6:4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(Heb 6:5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(Heb 6:6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
and
(Heb 10:25) Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
But the real problem I see is in this passage;
(Mat 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(Mat 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(Mat 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
There are many who THINK they are saved (fully convinced, baptized, Church members, active in ministry), but are not. And the danger as I see iit is n the continual telling of these folks that they are saved; when they are not.
Just my opinion.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 2:08:15 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
There are many who THINK they are saved (fully convinced, baptized, Church members, active in ministry), but are not. And the danger as I see iit is n the continual telling of these folks that they are saved; when they are not.
Not to be disrespectful, should we avoid that "danger" by continually telling everyone they may not be saved? Or is there another way: teach people how to know if they are saved and how to have biblical assurance of their relationship with God?
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 2:16:37 PM
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ChelaW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
There are many who THINK they are saved (fully convinced, baptized, Church members, active in ministry), but are not. And the danger as I see iit is n the continual telling of these folks that they are saved; when they are not.
Not to be disrespectful, should we avoid that "danger" by continually telling everyone they may not be saved? Or is there another way: teach people how to know if they are saved and how to have biblical assurance of their relationship with God?
Good point. It's also dangerous (and IMHO, a mind-game of the enemy) to tell everyone they may not be saved. You're right, JimboFletch, we need to teach people very clearly and with much Biblical support about salvation. I think in general, many Christians are confused.
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 2:21:14 PM
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raivyne
Posts: 881
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChelaW
However, my boyfriend is a wonderful Christian man who's more well-versed in the Word than I am. We were having a deep conversation last night about his personal struggles. He has one sinfull "vice" that he's been trying to kick for years, but often falls. I was trying to encourage him saying that God knows his intentions, and even though he stumbles, he is God-fearing and every single day he tries again...many people don't even do that. But he was saying that he feels like if he died tonight he wouldn't go to heaven bc the Bible says that no "idolaters (sp?), adulterers, whoremongers...shall enter the gates of heaven."
I would say if your boyfriend is actively letting the Lord minister to him in this area of his life and seeking for God to take this burden of sin from him that the Lord sees his heart.
Often with addictions (which habitual sins are) I notice people are sorry and ask the Lord to forgive them for the sin they've just committed but very few of them ask the Lord to take that particular urge sinful urge from their lives. They don't cry for the Lord to give them the strength of conviction to not commit that sin again. They try to work through it themselves because they know its not right what they are doing... but they don't say Lord take it away. Each time they feel the compulsion to do said sin they need to hit their knees and seek the Lord.
Jesus said "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell" (Mark 9:47). I don't know what your boyfriend's sin is, but as this verse says he should remove/aviod all temptation to do this sin from his person/life/home/car etc. etc.
I won't go any further to address the issue of reversed (lost) salvation because there is a huge discussion on that topic in the Salvation forum already.
_____________________________
God grades on the cross – not on a curve
Good – God = 0
In the dark? Follow the Son!
The Power of a Simple Gift! samaritanspurse.org
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 2:24:57 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1120
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChelaW
It was my understanding that once you're saved, you're saved. Period. As humans, we don't "earn" our way into heaven, it is only by professing & believing that Jesus is the Son of God that we get into heaven. Then once we're saved, we live rightously BECAUSE we're saved, not TO BE saved.
However, my boyfriend is a wonderful Christian man who's more well-versed in the Word than I am. We were having a deep conversation last night about his personal struggles. He has one sinfull "vice" that he's been trying to kick for years, but often falls. I was trying to encourage him saying that God knows his intentions, and even though he stumbles, he is God-fearing and every single day he tries again...many people don't even do that. But he was saying that he feels like if he died tonight he wouldn't go to heaven bc the Bible says that no "idolaters (sp?), adulterers, whoremongers...shall enter the gates of heaven."
Can someone help clear this up for me? I've just never been taught that you can negate your salvation. I want to be an encouraging, supportive girlfriend.
Salvation is the receiving of eternal life. Note that is not temporal life, but eternal life. Eternal life has no beginning and no end, because it is the very life of God, who alone has life.
What your boyfriend needs to understand is that trying to be good is not Christianity. Christians are acceptable to God because they are indwelt by the One who has eternal life, Jesus Christ. It is He who is good, and as we learn to depend on Him, He will then live His sinless life through us. On our own, we can do no good.
What God tells us is not that we will loose our salvation, or be out of fellowship with Him, or get zapped when we sin. What God tells us is to be who we now are. When Christians sin they are butterflies behaving like the worms they were. It is inconsistant with who they now are as Children of God.
If you continue in the verse you quoted you will see it says, "..and such were some of you." But, we are not those people any longer...so why go back to pretending we are?
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/6/2008 2:26:43 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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I think a lot of people try to complicate salvation. If you are saved by grace (getting something you do not deserve), then how can you lose it? You never deserved it in the first place, so how can you lose it??? Put your faith in Christ and what He did for you and you are saved. So many people try to complicate things and start making people doubt their salvation constistantly making them totally unuseable by God. I am not saying there are people who say they have put their faith in Christ and they have not. But Jesus said come to Him like a little child, so many people try to turn that verse into come to Me like a college professor.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/7/2008 6:26:20 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
should we avoid that "danger" by continually telling everyone they may not be saved?? My former pastor occasionally joked that the congregation should have *someone* with a 6 gun to kill people while they were in prayer repenting at the altar (an every service event) to ensure they went to heaven.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/7/2008 7:15:29 AM
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makarizo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
If someone believes that, according to scripture. they are saved by grace, why would they think that they are kept by works?
yes... Galatians 3:1 "You foolish Galatians........"
what is it that made the Galatians foolish?
_____________________________
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/7/2008 7:37:24 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
There are many who THINK they are saved (fully convinced, baptized, Church members, active in ministry), but are not. And the danger as I see iit is n the continual telling of these folks that they are saved; when they are not.
Not to be disrespectful, should we avoid that "danger" by continually telling everyone they may not be saved? Or is there another way: teach people how to know if they are saved and how to have biblical assurance of their relationship with God?
JimboFletch, I would suggest (and do practice) what Paul told the folks who were in the CHurch at Corinth;
(2Co 13:5) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Now what should one look for when we examine ourselves? The fruits of the Spirit which flow from the Spirit indwelling the true Believers;
(Gal 5:22,23) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
We should aso examine ourselves for the existance of iniquity for according to Jesus that is a disqualifier for acceptance into Heaven;
(Mat 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
There poor wretched folks (and many today) thought they knew Christ, but He says He did not know them. Jesus bases this on the fact they were working (walking in) iniquity.
I am just convinced that there is a flippant attitude rampant in the Church today about what it means to be "Saved" (Christian, Believer).
Jimbo, my postion here in this thread is not so much counter-OSAS, but more if one was truely ever saved to begin with.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/7/2008 8:36:58 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
If someone believes that, according to scripture. they are saved by grace, why would they think that they are kept by works?
yes... Galatians 3:1 "You foolish Galatians........"
what is it that made the Galatians foolish?
That they THOUGHT it was possible to maintain salvation through the Law (works) that was brought about by God's grace.
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/7/2008 8:47:57 AM
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raivyne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
There poor wretched folks (and many today) thought they knew Christ, but He says He did not know them. Jesus bases this on the fact they were working (walking in) iniquity.
I am just convinced that there is a flippant attitude rampant in the Church today about what it means to be "Saved" (Christian, Believer).
Jimbo, my postion here in this thread is not so much counter-OSAS, but more if one was truely ever saved to begin with.
Thanks
RC
That's it exactly and there are far too many wolves in the midst luring the sheep away. We are to know them by their fruit (things they do i.e. works/actions). That's where the disconnect is. Anyway this could quickly go off topic so I'll shut up now :)
_____________________________
God grades on the cross – not on a curve
Good – God = 0
In the dark? Follow the Son!
The Power of a Simple Gift! samaritanspurse.org
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/7/2008 9:21:18 AM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1884
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quote:
quote: URForgiven
What God tells us is not that we will loose our salvation
I think your goof is all too fitting in this thread. Way to go, bro! 
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/7/2008 3:04:04 PM
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pg4Him
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I think people get the wrong idea about Arminians going around like the Pharisees randomly telling people "you're not really saved!" It's an intense personal struggle which most Arminians are loathe to attempt to cast onto their neighbors. I believe that we are not judge someone's relationship with Christ either way - to assume that someone is saved because of how they look or where they go, or that someone else is not saved because of how they look or where they go. We examine fruit and make friendships accordingly, and all is done in love.
_____________________________
To hear the Word and not *do* the Word is to still not know the Word.
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RE: Can you reverse your salvation? - 10/7/2008 3:43:05 PM
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Kath
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In an attempt to consolidate for the purpose of effective moderation of this topic, we have created a One Stop thread for the topic of Once Saved Always Saved. Therefore, this thread is closed.
Please join us in the discussion linked below.
Once Saved Always Saved:
Click Here
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