|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/15/2008 11:13:08 AM
|
|
|
flmom76
Posts: 7
Joined: 10/15/2008
Status: offline
|
Hello! I am new here and have a question. Please let me know if I have posted in the wrong folder.
I do not know the exact bible verse or quote, but I read somewhere that if you Blasphemy God it's the only sin that you cannot be forgiven. Can someone please help me with this? Is God saying that if you have ever blasphemied and you later in life ask Jesus Christ to forgive you of your sins and come into your heart that you will not be forgiven Blasphemy?
Thank you for your help.
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/15/2008 11:21:07 AM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
The verse is in Matthew 12
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
-Matthew 12:31
In context, Jesus was saying that this specific sin is calling a miracle of God the Holy Spirit as the work of Satan. It is a very specific kind of sin and comes from the heart of one who is too hard-hearted to be saved, IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/15/2008 11:39:54 AM
|
|
|
flmom76
Posts: 7
Joined: 10/15/2008
Status: offline
|
Thank you for your replies.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/15/2008 1:10:27 PM
|
|
|
d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 292
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
In context, Jesus was saying that this specific sin is calling a miracle of God the Holy Spirit as the work of Satan. It is a very specific kind of sin and comes from the heart of one who is too hard-hearted to be saved, IMO.
Keep in mind that just because a person rejects Christ doesn't mean they have commited this sin. It is not possible for us to know when this sin is committed--only God knows, as it is His Spirit that strives with man, and His Spirit that knows when He has been blasphemed, truly.
This is one of those things that is good to know, but we can't really know when it happens... so I just kinda wish that Jesus wouldn't have brought it up :). But, there must be a reason for Him telling us about it, I just don't know why that is... because we can't know when it is done, nor can we do anything about it when it is done. *shrug*
But yes, essentially it is absolutely rejecting Christ, and being closed off to receiving it. There comes a point when His Spirit will no longer strive with a person, and that point is called the blaphemy of the Holy Spirit.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/15/2008 1:25:27 PM
|
|
|
misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
quote:
In context, Jesus was saying that this specific sin is calling a miracle of God the Holy Spirit as the work of Satan. It is a very specific kind of sin and comes from the heart of one who is too hard-hearted to be saved, IMO.
Keep in mind that just because a person rejects Christ doesn't mean they have commited this sin. It is not possible for us to know when this sin is committed--only God knows, as it is His Spirit that strives with man, and His Spirit that knows when He has been blasphemed, truly.
This is one of those things that is good to know, but we can't really know when it happens... so I just kinda wish that Jesus wouldn't have brought it up :). But, there must be a reason for Him telling us about it, I just don't know why that is... because we can't know when it is done, nor can we do anything about it when it is done. *shrug*
But yes, essentially it is absolutely rejecting Christ, and being closed off to receiving it. There comes a point when His Spirit will no longer strive with a person, and that point is called the blaphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Keep in mind that just because a person rejects Christ doesn't mean that they have commited this sin. I wont debate your response, but can u explain this in further detail? Maybe I will debate it to a certain extent, lol....Then why does Jesus say, to have known me and to turn your back on me, you were better off to have NEVER known me. And before anyone points this out, I may not have worded it exactly, Im at work right now, so I cant look it up, but why would that be in the Bible? What does it say about being 7 times worse?
You wish Jesus would not have brought it up? Im glad that He did :)
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/15/2008 1:33:38 PM
|
|
|
d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 292
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
Keep in mind that just because a person rejects Christ doesn't mean that they have commited this sin. I wont debate your response, but can u explain this in further detail? Maybe I will debate it to a certain extent, lol....Then why does Jesus say, to have known me and to turn your back on me, you were better off to have NEVER known me. And before anyone points this out, I may not have worded it exactly, and Im at work right now, so I cant look it up, but why would that be in the Bible?
You wish Jesus would not have brought it up? Im glad that He did :)
Hey, no problem.
For example: Before you were a believer, did you reject Christ? Did you ever denounce Him? Or, if you were one of those who received Him as soon as you heard... have you ever known anyone who rejected Christ yet at a later time he or she received Christ? Well, if the former rejection of Christ in this person's life was the blapheme of the Holy Spirit, then he or she cannot be saved today because he or she has commited an unpardonable sin of rejecting Christ at a previous date, blaspheming the Holy Spirit. One can logically conclude that just because a person rejects Christ doesn't mean they have commited the unpardonable sin, but rather, this is an unknowable sin that is only known by God (just as only God truly knows if a person is saved).
The rejection of the Holy Spirit, or blaspheme of the Holy Spirit happens at a specific, but unknowable (to us) time. Only God knows. We can speculate, but one cannot truly say if someone has reached the point of no return, only God does. For this reason, I off-the-cuff say that it's something I would rather Jesus never brought up. If, however, I didn't know better, which I do, and therefore I know there is a good reason for Him bringing it up, and I am glad He did--I just don't know what the complete reason is as of yet. Accept that perhaps the reason is just to serve as a warning for those who are walking down that path, and to say He warned us. It is what it is regardless of our understanding of it.
< Message edited by d4nnyb0y02 -- 10/15/2008 1:43:52 PM >
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/15/2008 1:51:24 PM
|
|
|
misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
Keep in mind that just because a person rejects Christ doesn't mean that they have commited this sin. I wont debate your response, but can u explain this in further detail? Maybe I will debate it to a certain extent, lol....Then why does Jesus say, to have known me and to turn your back on me, you were better off to have NEVER known me. And before anyone points this out, I may not have worded it exactly, and Im at work right now, so I cant look it up, but why would that be in the Bible?
You wish Jesus would not have brought it up? Im glad that He did :)
Hey, no problem.
For example: Before you were a believer, did you reject Christ? Did you ever denounce Him? Or, if you were one of those who received Him as soon as you heard... have you ever known anyone who rejected Christ yet at a later time he or she received Christ? Well, if the former rejection of Christ in this person's life was the blapheme of the Holy Spirit, then he or she cannot be saved today because he or she has commited an unpardonable sin of rejecting Christ at a previous date, blaspheming the Holy Spirit. One can logically conclude that just because a person rejects Christ doesn't mean they have commited the unpardonable sin, but rather, this is an unknowable sin that is only known by God (just as only God truly knows if a person is saved).
The rejection of the Holy Spirit, or blaspheme of the Holy Spirit happens at a specific, but unknowable (to us) time. Only God knows. We can speculate, but one cannot truly say if someone has reached the point of no return, only God does. For this reason, I off-the-cuff say that it's something I would rather Jesus never brought up. If, however, I didn't know better, which I do, and therefore I know there is a good reason for Him bringing it up, and I am glad He did--I just don't know what the complete reason is as of yet. Accept that perhaps the reason is just to serve as a warning for those who are walking down that path, and to say He warned us. It is what it is regardless of our understanding of it.
For example: Before you were a believer, did you reject Christ?
Yes....I am 35, and I have been a believer my whole life, I was raised in a Christian home, but I was not not saved. not until 16 months ago. I have always believed in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, because I was taught, but I chose to live the life that I wanted to live, like I said, up until 16 months ago.
So are u trying to tell me that today, Im not saved because at point in my life, I rejected Him??? Thats what it sounds like to me, and I can tell you today, I have been saved, I have been transformed into a person that I never thought I could be, and He gets all the Glory for it.
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/15/2008 2:02:09 PM
|
|
|
d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 292
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
not saved because at point in my life, I rejected Him???
Actually, I said the opposite of that :).
Just because a person rejects Christ at one time does not mean they have committed the unpardonable sin. That's because this sin is unknowlable to us--only God knows. Obviously, since you are saved, you never committed this sin because He strived with you just as He did with me, and you have believed. If you had committed this sin you wouldn't be saved today... but you are saved... so it is clear you never committed this sin.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/15/2008 2:10:37 PM
|
|
|
misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
quote:
not saved because at point in my life, I rejected Him??? Thats what it sounds like to me, and I can tell you today, I have been saved, I have been transformed into a person that I never thought I could
Actually, I said the opposite of that :).
Just because a person rejects Christ at one time does not mean they have committed the unpardonable sin. That's because this sin is unknowlable to us--only God knows. Obviously, since you are saved, you never committed this sin because He strived with you just as He did with me, and you have believed.
I believe with all my heart, that a person can reject Christ all their lives, and right up to the very last moment, if they accept Him into their lives, He is merciful enough to forgive them, and no this does not give anyone the right to do this, nor should they want to live a life without Christ. And why do I say this, because my Grandfather was a man who was not saved, he did not want my Grandmother going to church or paying tithes, but she did, but he was totally against it, he ended up with cancer, and he died a terrible death, he suffered in ways that I will not post, one reason, because I didnt witness it, and Im thankful for that, but my Grandfather knew about Christ because of my Grandmother, and he knew all he had to do was call out on Him, and ask for forgiveness, and our Lord is loving and merciful enough to do so, it was on my Grandfather's death bed that he accepted Christ into his life.
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/15/2008 2:16:01 PM
|
|
|
d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 292
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
a person can reject Christ all their lives, and right up to the very last moment, if they accept Him into their lives, He is merciful enough to forgive them
Amen.
quote:
it was on my Grandfather's death bed that he accepted Christ into his life.
Amen amen :)
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/16/2008 11:00:32 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4099
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
quote:
I believe with all my heart, that a person can reject Christ all their lives, and right up to the very last moment, if they accept Him into their lives, He is merciful enough to forgive them, and no this does not give anyone the right to do this, nor should they want to live a life without Christ. I heard a radio pastor once say that those who plan to repent at midnight usually die at 11:30.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/16/2008 11:08:45 AM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Read Mark 3. In it you'll find that the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit was attributing the power Jesus used to performed a miracle to Satan.
And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
The sin was intentional. The sin was giving Satan credit for the Holy Spirit's work. The sin had nothing to do with not receiving the Gospel.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/16/2008 12:53:42 PM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4099
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
And the sin had to do with turning people away from the gospel message.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/16/2008 2:07:43 PM
|
|
|
URForgiven
Posts: 1120
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
|
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is continual rejection of the Holy Spirits work. The result of which is to continue in unbelief. The sin of the world is unbelief.
Unbelief cannot be forgiven, it can only be corrected.
Matthew 12:31
Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy (every evil, abusive, injurious speaking, or indignity against sacred things) can be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the [Holy] Spirit shall not and cannot be forgiven.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/16/2008 2:19:52 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
And the sin had to do with turning people away from the gospel message.
Hiya Dave. Show me anywhere in that passage that the Gospel message was presented at all. 'Twarn't.
Those people saw Jesus perform a miracle and said it was by Satan's power. Jesus called that blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
I know, I know, you heard or read some preacher say that rejecting the Gospel was blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I have to. Sounded pious and tickled my ears too. But looking at the three Gospels that recorded Jesus say that, the rejection of the Gospel message just had nothing to do with the situation except by an excessive stretch. That was the point of pasting the relevant passage that explains what the matter was about and why He said it.
No need to embellish what's there.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/16/2008 2:24:04 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Unbelief cannot be forgiven, it can only be corrected.
I'm sorry, sir. But I was forgiven unbelief and was born again. Not only that, the Holy Spirit gave me the faith to believe. It just wasn't in my natural, unregenerated will to believe until the Holy Spirit intervened.
Want a biblical example of forgiven unbelief. Look no further than the Apostle Paul prior to and up to the Damascus road. Do you really, really, want to tell us that Paul was and remains unforgiven, only corrected? If you do, I'll tell you now that I'm not sipping any of that koolaid.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/16/2008 2:28:54 PM
|
|
|
URForgiven
Posts: 1120
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Unbelief cannot be forgiven, it can only be corrected.
I'm sorry, sir. But I was forgiven unbelief and was born again. Not only that, the Holy Spirit gave me the faith to believe. It just wasn't in my natural, unregenerated will to believe until the Holy Spirit intervened.
Want a biblical example of forgiven unbelief. Look no further than the Apostle Paul prior to and up to the Damascus road. Do you really, really, want to tell us that Paul was and remains unforgiven, only corrected? If you do, I'll tell you now that I'm not sipping any of that koolaid.
Suppose unbelief could be forgiven, how does it benefit the unbeliever?
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/16/2008 2:33:14 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Suppose unbelief could be forgiven, how does it benefit the unbeliever?
How can forgiveness NOT benefit anyone? You almost sound like it's a bad thing to be forgiven.
Anywhat, THAT forgiveness resulted in my rebirth just like it did with Paul.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/16/2008 2:35:22 PM
|
|
|
URForgiven
Posts: 1120
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Suppose unbelief could be forgiven, how does it benefit the unbeliever?
How can forgiveness NOT benefit anyone? You almost sound like it's a bad thing to be forgiven.
Anywhat, THAT forgiveness resulted in my rebirth.
You did not answer the question.
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/16/2008 2:53:56 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Suppose unbelief could be forgiven, how does it benefit the unbeliever?
How can forgiveness NOT benefit anyone? You almost sound like it's a bad thing to be forgiven.
Anywhat, THAT forgiveness resulted in my rebirth.
You did not answer the question.
Read it again. I answered. I'm not sure what you're fishing for or what quaint surprise you think you have up your sleeve, but the OP has been answered and so have you. If you remain confused, then move along. Nothing here to see but your own train wreck.
Thanks and have a nice life,
JC
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Blasphemy - Never Forgiven - 10/16/2008 2:54:47 PM
|
|
|
d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 292
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Unbelief cannot be forgiven, it can only be corrected.
I'm sorry, sir. But I was forgiven unbelief and was born again. Not only that, the Holy Spirit gave me the faith to believe. It just wasn't in my natural, unregenerated will to believe until the Holy Spirit intervened.
Want a biblical example of forgiven unbelief. Look no further than the Apostle Paul prior to and up to the Damascus road. Do you really, really, want to tell us that Paul was and remains unforgiven, only corrected? If you do, I'll tell you now that I'm not sipping any of that koolaid.
Suppose unbelief could be forgiven, how does it benefit the unbeliever?
Peace
Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Why did Jesus ask that they be forgiven? Were not their sins a direct result of thier unbelief? If their unbelief could not be forgiven, then why forgive them of anything at all? I would argue that most all of our sins are the direct result of unbelief. We do not believe that God's means what he says. We do not believe God will judge us. We do not believe this will hurt us, or it will hurt someone else... even though God's Word is clear on a matter. Most sin is the result of unbelief.
Regardless, of course we benefit from forgiveness. Unbelief is a sin, and of course it is forgivable. There is only one unpardonable sin, and it is as you said--the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Nobody knows when that blaphemy of the Holy Spirit occurs, but only God does. It is at that point that His Spirit will no longer strive with the individual.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
