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"Is he your husband?" - 6/1/2008 1:05:50 AM
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stimulus
Posts: 181
Joined: 6/4/2005
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That was the question I was asked by a visitor to a church event tonight. I said no, she asked if he was my boyfriend, and I said no, we're just friends.
I've posted before about my relationship with this friend and the perceptions in our church. We're the same age (27). He's a board member and essentially the volunteer pastor for our young adults ministry. I help ensure all the basic needs of the group are met, filling in as needed to take attendance, do follow-up, run sound and Powerpoint, and teach Sunday School when he can't. At church services and events, we tend to talk quite a bit.
From other girls in the young adults group to other board members, I have people ask if we're dating or just assume we are. But tonight was the first time I've ever had someone assume I'm married to him!
Although we've known each other for several years, it's just been in the last 6-8 months that situations have resulted in us becoming much closer. Our young adults group has gone through several staff pastors, and my friend and I have by far the longest "history" with the group and church. Since we've been through several challenging times in the group together, he trusts me to help with confidential "messy" pastoral-type problems that fall to him while we're without a staff pastor (or senior pastor, for that matter). Or like tonight, we talked about some complaints he got regarding his sermons, and I told him a couple ways I thought he could better engage people.
Anyways. Here's my question: if a brand new person to our ministry thinks we're married, do we have a problem? 
< Message edited by stimulus -- 6/2/2008 10:00:13 PM >
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RE: "Is he your husband?" - 6/1/2008 1:14:05 AM
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song
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It sounds like you guys might be using each other as girlfriend/boyfriend but don't call it that.
I've done it before too.
You either need to "have the talk" or purposefully separate yourself emotionally which usually includes physical separation too.
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be who you are. those who mind don't matter. those who matter don't mind.
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RE: "Is he your husband?" - 6/2/2008 10:33:04 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3974
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Yeah, you should have that talk. But PRAY PRAY PRAY first.
Is there emotional attraction or involvement on either of your parts?
Do you sense a similar or complementary call to ministry vis-a-vis his own?
Is he "your type?" Are you his type?
If any of this is going on but you sense a "no" from God in prayer, you will need to distance yourselves.
_____________________________
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RE: "Is he your husband?" - 6/2/2008 11:58:51 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1696
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It sounds like you both have not set boundaries.
This phrase concerns me:
Since we've been through several challenging times in the group together, he trusts me to help with confidential "messy" pastoral-type problems that fall to him while we're without a staff pastor (or senior pastor, for that matter).
I don't mean this is in a disrespectful way, but confidential information given to a Pastor is NOT your business. He is so wrong to share that kind of information with you. I have to tell you as an Elder, if our Pastor did that I would have him brought before the board. That just is not right.
As far as the situation you asked about as a whole, I agree the two of you need to have a talk, define your boundaries, expectations, and go forward in a way that brings glory and honor to Christ not cause a distraction for the congregation.
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RE: "Is he your husband?" - 6/2/2008 12:50:11 PM
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allisonbrett
Posts: 176
Joined: 5/29/2008
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I have to ask, do you care if people assume that you two are an item? Have you talked to your guy friend about this? What does he say?
It sounds to me that you and your friend have become close and others are recognizing that connection. Whether others perceive that connection as anything romantic may be based on several factors: amount of time time spent together, comments made about each other, body language etc. just to name a few. Your body language may be also giving others the appearance that you are more than just mere friends. But even if everything is clearly platonic there will be those that make assumptions as to your relationship. For some reason many assume that all singles are "looking" at becoming couples and that any male/female friendship must be leading to just that: a future couples.
If you've not yet talked to your friend about this you may want to. At least make sure you are on the same page - relationally speaking.
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RE: "Is he your husband?" - 6/2/2008 7:39:40 PM
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preserved
Posts: 921
Joined: 6/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
It sounds like you both have not set boundaries.
This phrase concerns me:
Since we've been through several challenging times in the group together, he trusts me to help with confidential "messy" pastoral-type problems that fall to him while we're without a staff pastor (or senior pastor, for that matter).
I don't mean this is in a disrespectful way, but confidential information given to a Pastor is NOT your business. He is so wrong to share that kind of information with you. I have to tell you as an Elder, if our Pastor did that I would have him brought before the board. That just is not right.
As far as the situation you asked about as a whole, I agree the two of you need to have a talk, define your boundaries, expectations, and go forward in a way that brings glory and honor to Christ not cause a distraction for the congregation.
I am 100% in agreement with you on this buckfin. Could be the very reason why someone thought you were his wife? This man should not be discussing confidential matters pastorial problems period....Seems that the two of you are caring on....like I said before as if the two of you are together..
I ask you a question...Do you feel that God is in agreement with the two of you and your actions? Really think on this before you answer...
Based upon your comments as well as other comment from other posting...this is not the first of this conversation...first it was people assuming that you the two of you are dating...now it's if you are married...what is God going to expose next??
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RE: "Is he your husband?" - 6/2/2008 9:54:22 PM
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stimulus
Posts: 181
Joined: 6/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
Uh. No.
When me and my sister hang out, people ask if we are dating too. People are just. . . thick. . . sometimes.
I felt so much better after reading this last night, thinking of the times a waitress has assumed I'm dating my brother. But after reading several more posts today saying I'm a fool, well, I don't feel better any more. 
From posting on here, talking to a friend (who doesn't attend my church), and just reflecting and praying about it, I had come to the conclusion that I needed to put a little distance in our friendship. Little being the operative word - I don't feel like I can put much distance between us without leaving the ministry, or worse, the church. And that would just be overkill.
While leaving the ministry is an option, I don't feel like I should do that because 1) he needs the help and 2) it is a match for my passions and gifts. I love college ministry and think it's a hugely important time in the lives of Christians and non-Christians alike. I'm also friends with lots of the people, so it would be weird to just stop attending events, even if I volunteered elsewhere during our services.
So I figured I could reduce the amount of time I spend talking to him at events and informal gatherings. That's what caught me so off guard Saturday night - I had barely spoken to him, trying to keep some distance, and yet this girl asked if we're married. It was mostly couples at the event (he, me, and one other single girl among 3-4 couples), but still...
quote:
Yeah, you should have that talk. But PRAY PRAY PRAY first.
Is there emotional attraction or involvement on either of your parts?
Do you sense a similar or complementary call to ministry vis-a-vis his own?
Is he "your type?" Are you his type?
If any of this is going on but you sense a "no" from God in prayer, you will need to distance yourselves.
Well, I'm definitely attracted to him at this point. I can handle my emotions, though, if I knew where he stood. Right now, our calls, vocations, ministries or whatever you want to call them are complementary, and it seems like they could be long-term, but there could be some issues. We're really similar people, but I don't know if that me his type or vice versa. (I really try not to think about these questions and just be a friend...)
I do need to pray more about it.
quote:
This phrase concerns me:
Since we've been through several challenging times in the group together, he trusts me to help with confidential "messy" pastoral-type problems that fall to him while we're without a staff pastor (or senior pastor, for that matter).
I don't mean this is in a disrespectful way, but confidential information given to a Pastor is NOT your business. He is so wrong to share that kind of information with you. I have to tell you as an Elder, if our Pastor did that I would have him brought before the board. That just is not right.
I probably made that sound a lot worse than it is, although your point is valid. My friend, for starters, isn't a pastor - he's a board member who inherited the responsibility, yet again, of "pastoring" our young adults groups when yet another staff pastor left the church.
While we've probably said things we shouldn't have, I didn't mean to imply that he tells me confidential, personal information given to a pastor. But there are times when it becomes readily apparent to plenty of people in the group that a leader is behaving immorally (drunkenness, sexuality, etc). Or personality conflicts become very noticeable as individuals get into fights. When there is obviously a problem, we do talk about it - how the person responded, what we need to do, etc. It's not like he's telling me people's private business - I've already heard about it from others.
quote:
I have to ask, do you care if people assume that you two are an item?
Uh, yeah. That's why I'm writing.
People thought we were dating or should in the past, but it didn't bother me then. But it's a lot more common now, and it bugs me.
quote:
Have you talked to your guy friend about this? What does he say?
I tried once. Told him that another board member had assumed we were dating. He just said, "Yeah, some people may think we're dating" and changed the subject. I'm thinking about trying again Wednesday, espcially if the girl who asked the question is back. Just a casual, "you know what, she asked me the other night if you were my husband..."
quote:
It sounds to me that you and your friend have become close and others are recognizing that connection. Whether others perceive that connection as anything romantic may be based on several factors: amount of time time spent together, comments made about each other, body language etc. just to name a few. Your body language may be also giving others the appearance that you are more than just mere friends.
It's true that we're close and people recognize that. We do tend to talk a lot at group events (espcially informal dinners after services), so it's reasonable for people to think we are dating or will soon. But I really don't think comments about each other or our body language is the issue. I could be wrong, of course.
quote:
But even if everything is clearly platonic there will be those that make assumptions as to your relationship. For some reason many assume that all singles are "looking" at becoming couples and that any male/female friendship must be leading to just that: a future couples.
That's a good point; similar to what 1love1God1way said. It does depend on what you're looking for.
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RE: "Is he your husband?" - 6/2/2008 10:31:14 PM
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WholeHeart
Posts: 25
Joined: 2/13/2008
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Wow. You've got it worse than I do; I and a certain guy stopped getting asked if we were dating and started getting asked if we were related....  "Are you guys related?" and "Is this your brother?" are a whole lot less awkward than what you're describing. It sounds like you're planning to do all you can do. Pray and try to get a little distance.
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RE: "Is he your husband?" - 6/2/2008 11:19:46 PM
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stimulus
Posts: 181
Joined: 6/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: preserved
quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
It sounds like you both have not set boundaries.
This phrase concerns me:
Since we've been through several challenging times in the group together, he trusts me to help with confidential "messy" pastoral-type problems that fall to him while we're without a staff pastor (or senior pastor, for that matter).
I don't mean this is in a disrespectful way, but confidential information given to a Pastor is NOT your business. He is so wrong to share that kind of information with you. I have to tell you as an Elder, if our Pastor did that I would have him brought before the board. That just is not right.
As far as the situation you asked about as a whole, I agree the two of you need to have a talk, define your boundaries, expectations, and go forward in a way that brings glory and honor to Christ not cause a distraction for the congregation.
I am 100% in agreement with you on this buckfin. Could be the very reason why someone thought you were his wife? This man should not be discussing confidential matters pastorial problems period....Seems that the two of you are caring on....like I said before as if the two of you are together..
As always, someone else responded while I was composing a mammoth reply.
Like I said in the other post, I think my choice of words was poor. I wrote that he trusts me to help with confidential, pastoral-type problems. What I meant is that, when situations arise that need to be addressed, he trusts me not to run my mouth - not that he runs his to me. He isn't giving me information about people's personal problems; the problem is already obvious and I'm just helping, as the oldest strong female leader, to help deal with things in an appropriate, confidential way.
quote:
I ask you a question...Do you feel that God is in agreement with the two of you and your actions? Really think on this before you answer...
Based upon your comments as well as other comment from other posting...this is not the first of this conversation...first it was people assuming that you the two of you are dating...now it's if you are married...what is God going to expose next??
That is a good question that I need to explore more in prayer. At the moment, I don't feel like God is opposed to it. He serves where the church needs him, preaching, teaching, and leading services and class for a group of 25-30 young adults. I've served under him in the group through the years, submitting to him as the leader when I felt like the only reason he was chosen over me was gender. I've helped where he has asked and backed off when I knew he wanted to go a different direction. All I've done - gone to prayer meetings, taught class, prayed with and discipled people, helped in a myriad of "behind the scenes" ways - is the same stuff I've done in church and evangelistic ministries since I was a teen - a child really, growing up in a ministry-oriented family. It's not like I'm faking it to be close to my friend!
I know that you see two young adults who are engaged in some type of inappropriate relationship. But we're really two people who serve God and His body. I'm not perfect. I am indeed a sinner saved by grace. But I serve God in my personal life, I serve him in my church, and I serve him through my work. You may remember that I work for a Christian ministry. I don't really see a lot of difference in how I serve God alongside my friend at church, and how I serve him alongside my male coworkers at work. In both cases, we're co-laborers for Christ, and no, I don't think that displeases God.
But clearly, you feel differently. I would be interested in hearing why. Specifically, I would love to know what from the Bible causes you to see my friendship with him as such an inappropriate thing. If I am doing something that is truly an offense to God, I want to know, but I don't see anything in the Bible to indicate that it's wrong to do what I'm doing. The ambiguity of it is bothersome to me right now. But what exactly do you think is so morally wrong?
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RE: "Is he your husband?" - 6/2/2008 11:33:17 PM
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stimulus
Posts: 181
Joined: 6/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
As far as the situation you asked about as a whole, I agree the two of you need to have a talk, define your boundaries, expectations, and go forward in a way that brings glory and honor to Christ not cause a distraction for the congregation.
I read this again in preserved's reply, and I think you give good advice, espcially about moving forward in a way that honors Christ and is not a distraction for others. Like I wrote in my response to preserved, I don't see anything about us serving alongside each other that dishonors Christ. I could be wrong, so let me know if you feel differently.
But causing a distraction for the congregation... I can see that being a problem (which, of course, doesn't honor Christ). I don't see anything wrong with our actions, but perhaps a biblical parallel is the teaching to avoid actions that might cause a weaker brother to stumble. If we don't talk about the boundaries we do observe, people may not realize they exist.
Someone might fall into sin because we didn't broadcast our boundaries (or make them glaringly obvious), but the bigger issue is the distraction that seems to affect more people. I could be making more out of a few questions and looks than I should, but it does seem to distract people. That is worth talking to him about.
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RE: "Is he your husband?" - 6/3/2008 11:39:19 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1696
Joined: 5/23/2006
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The best part is you are searching for answers and that is really a good thing.
However, I know everyone won't agree with me on this, but I say it from exp, and from the view of an Elder: I don't think there is any middle ground when it comes to moral issues and the church leadership.
Either we can and do lead by example according to the Word, or we don't. If we don't then I feel we do hinder the church. Are you doing that? Of course nobody here has any way of knowing for sure, but I believe as you pray and seek God His Spirit will guide you to Truth and Light.
I always encourage younger leaders to pray that God helps them live their live each day in a way that brings honor to HIM. It's those little day to day decisions that shows others who we really are. It is also those small foxes that destroys the vine. The way you and your friend interact may seem "small and innocent" to you, but if it is something else to others, is it worth it?
Both of you are free to form a committed relationship if you want one, right? So why not find out if the feelings are there or not and take a firm stand on what to do about it either way?
It sounds like it would free up a lot of people. including the two of you.
It's clear you have a desire to lead ,so maybe God is using this to push you forward to the place He has for you without this person?
Change often brings conflict first, but that is not necessarily a bad thing!
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RE: "Is he your husband?" - 6/6/2008 8:59:38 AM
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FunBetty
Posts: 5978
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quote:
ORIGINAL: song
It sounds like you guys might be using each other as girlfriend/boyfriend but don't call it that.
I've done it before too.
You either need to "have the talk" or purposefully separate yourself emotionally which usually includes physical separation too.
I wanted to jump in and agree with that. There's a little saying "If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck..."
You've said you have feelings for him. I think you truly need to step back and look at this situation from an outside angle. You two are being referred to as boyfriend/girlfriend because you are acting like such, and it's being disguised as working together in ministry. Think of it this way, if he was married, would you be helping him in the same capacity? You may not be doing anything morally wrong, but you have developed an attachment to him that could be muddling your motives.
I think that it is great that you two both have a passion for this ministry, but since you are not a couple, then you need to be more engaging with other people and allow them to join the team in helping out. Give others a chance to assist you with your work. Don't be "the hero".
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Fun Betty's Cookie Shoppe and Pumpkin Patch
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RE: "Is he your husband?" - 6/7/2008 3:19:55 PM
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stimulus
Posts: 181
Joined: 6/4/2005
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I told him about the question earlier today, by phone. He was just like, "well, we did talk to each other for a while. I don't think it's any big deal." (While we did talk for an extended time at one point, it was actually after her question. We had barely spoke when she asked. I think it was our comfortable familiarity, the lack of PDA while the obviously dating couples expressed their togetherness, and a comment by the other single girl about it being essentially a couples-event that made it seems like we were married.)
That was similar to his reaction the first time I tried to talk with him about it. Back then, another board member had assumed we were dating, and he just said, "yeah, some people may think we're dating" and changed the subject. He just doesn't think it matters, doesn't see that there is a problem or that we need to do anything about it.
I'm not going to be able to get it all out over the phone, but talking privately is counterproductive at this point. I wrote a long email that I'll send him after service tomorrow. It says that I worry this will damage our reputation, distract people, and just generally not be completely honoring Christ. I should add something about how we may say we aren't dating, but we act like we are. I don't want to send it now, because I've got to attend a teacher's meeting with him in the morning, then substitute for him in class, which he'll be attending. It's just too much.
I tell him that I'll continue in my present role in the group, because I don't feel like I can or should back out entirely. Our new senior pastor starts in a week, but it'll probably be months before we have a new college pastor. But I explain that I have tried and will continue to try not talking to him so much at social gatherings, which should help with people's perceptions. There are other leaders involved in the group, including other single girls. The difference is just that I talk to him a lot more at social events, because we're closer in age and share a lot in common. I'll stop going to dinner with his friends after services, and I'll make an even more concerted effort to talk to other people at events. I just want him to know why in advance, because I don't want to seem rude. We can talk by phone or write if we need to discuss something, and I'll tell him, too, that I can just find another ministry to attend or help in if that's best.
quote:
You've said you have feelings for him. I think you truly need to step back and look at this situation from an outside angle. You two are being referred to as boyfriend/girlfriend because you are acting like such, and it's being disguised as working together in ministry. Think of it this way, if he was married, would you be helping him in the same capacity? You may not be doing anything morally wrong, but you have developed an attachment to him that could be muddling your motives.
He's been overseeing the group, with me as a participating leader, for a lot longer than I've had feelings for him. I didn't start disguising a crush on him by trying to help in his ministry. I've been involved in this ministry for sometime; I previously helped lead a college ministry elsewhere when I was a student. It may appear that one of us is disguising a relationship as ministry work, but other than being good friends, I don't see how we're acting like boyfriend\girlfriend. Earlier, my participation was more of an assistant role, but as our friendship deepened, people thought we were seeing each other. But it's never been an attempt to date him under the pretense of ministry. I mean, can't people of the opposite sex be friends, or is it always pretense?
Since I work for a denomination, I do work closely in ministry with married men. I have friendships with some of them, too. Obviously, we don't spend time alone at restaurants or the like, but I chat with them about personal things (family, church, books and spiritual ideas, etc) one-on-one at the office. I've shared a few meals with some of them, whether at work luncheons or just between a small group of friends. I don't develop attachments to them because they are married, but it is the type of relationship that would be taboo in a local church settings. I guess I struggle to see why it's okay at work, but not at church, when my church and work's standards and beliefs are nearly identical.
<big sigh>
Now I've got to clear my mind and spirit and go write my Sunday school lesson.
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